Re: Not "Getting It"
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:16 pm
Hi Stafford,
Happy belated Easter! Sure - I can address those questions again but will make use to a large degree of my prior round of answers on them, as those responses are largely on point still and I'm not sure how else to answer certain of them:
Question 1 - "Is there a separate entity 'self', ..."
No, a self or "somebody home," as we recently started calling it, is just a thought. More specifically, it's the content of thought that we are the controllers of a body in this place. There are sensations and there are thoughts. All of these happen on their own, however, so where is the controller? That director is only within the content of the thoughts. Because we don't "write" or create the thoughts, we aren't even directing the thoughts that claim that we are the director. This lack of being the doer has always been the case, but I never recognized it before this guiding.
Question 2 - "Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self..."
I touched on this one in my answer to Question 1 above, but it's simply believing the thoughts that say that I'm "someone home" making decisions, having thoughts, and moving around this body. It starts probably just because that's how the vast majority of humanity views itself, as being directors of individual bodies. That's how we're raised by parents as well, and there are very few messages to contrary telling us that we're not in control.
Question 3 - "How does it feel to see this? ..."
It's shocking and exciting at the same time. "Noticing" or thinking about the lack of doership comes and goes on its own, but when it's being meditated on, it's really freaky that there's no control over the body, thoughts, or decisions. It's 180 degrees different from how almost all people see the world. There is a sense of relaxation that can arise since this has been seen and accepted, but I think that this will be a gradual and deepening realization and process. For me, it hasn't been a one pop, and I'm all through the gate.
Question 4 - "What was the last bit that pushed you over;..."
Hmmm. This is a hard one. I've been on this road for a while. It seems like the things that really stumped me and got me to more deeply look were: lack of control over the body, decisions, and thoughts; that our primary experience is not of being a body but of being aware of not just the body but the world as well - awareness is primary; and that outside of thought content, there is nothing separate from experience to be found. Another thing that kind of had me stuck for a while was waiting for a sign of something being different, which would indicate that I'm through that gate. Stafford helped me realize that I needed to drop all expectations on this as well.
Question 5 - "Describe decision, intention, free will, ..."
Decisions happen on their own. Thoughts try to claim them, but usually, decisions are made without any thought. Sometimes, thoughts happen after decisions are made and are actually opposite of the decision that really happened. Intention would just be thoughts about wanting or intending to do something; we don't control those, either. Free will, choice, and control are all in this same boat, in that something may be controlling this body, but I'm not the one pushing the buttons and pulling the levers on it.
Question 6 - "Anything to add?"
Non-duality and the related philosophies seem to really over-complicate this and then build up the expectations that some miraculous experience is supposed to happen when you really understand this, this "enlightenment" idea that they sell in those books, websites, and videos. Going down that path before coming to Liberation Unleashed probably tangled me up for longer than if I had forgone all that reading ahead of time. However, I wasn't the one choosing to read those books...or the one reading, either. How the words on the pages are understood and translated to an inaudible voice is unbelievably complex and not something that I'm pushing all the buttons to make happen. There are feelings of looking forward for the realization of non-doership / lack of being a controller to deepen as well.
Talk to you soon!
Bayou
Happy belated Easter! Sure - I can address those questions again but will make use to a large degree of my prior round of answers on them, as those responses are largely on point still and I'm not sure how else to answer certain of them:
Question 1 - "Is there a separate entity 'self', ..."
No, a self or "somebody home," as we recently started calling it, is just a thought. More specifically, it's the content of thought that we are the controllers of a body in this place. There are sensations and there are thoughts. All of these happen on their own, however, so where is the controller? That director is only within the content of the thoughts. Because we don't "write" or create the thoughts, we aren't even directing the thoughts that claim that we are the director. This lack of being the doer has always been the case, but I never recognized it before this guiding.
Question 2 - "Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self..."
I touched on this one in my answer to Question 1 above, but it's simply believing the thoughts that say that I'm "someone home" making decisions, having thoughts, and moving around this body. It starts probably just because that's how the vast majority of humanity views itself, as being directors of individual bodies. That's how we're raised by parents as well, and there are very few messages to contrary telling us that we're not in control.
Question 3 - "How does it feel to see this? ..."
It's shocking and exciting at the same time. "Noticing" or thinking about the lack of doership comes and goes on its own, but when it's being meditated on, it's really freaky that there's no control over the body, thoughts, or decisions. It's 180 degrees different from how almost all people see the world. There is a sense of relaxation that can arise since this has been seen and accepted, but I think that this will be a gradual and deepening realization and process. For me, it hasn't been a one pop, and I'm all through the gate.
Question 4 - "What was the last bit that pushed you over;..."
Hmmm. This is a hard one. I've been on this road for a while. It seems like the things that really stumped me and got me to more deeply look were: lack of control over the body, decisions, and thoughts; that our primary experience is not of being a body but of being aware of not just the body but the world as well - awareness is primary; and that outside of thought content, there is nothing separate from experience to be found. Another thing that kind of had me stuck for a while was waiting for a sign of something being different, which would indicate that I'm through that gate. Stafford helped me realize that I needed to drop all expectations on this as well.
Question 5 - "Describe decision, intention, free will, ..."
Decisions happen on their own. Thoughts try to claim them, but usually, decisions are made without any thought. Sometimes, thoughts happen after decisions are made and are actually opposite of the decision that really happened. Intention would just be thoughts about wanting or intending to do something; we don't control those, either. Free will, choice, and control are all in this same boat, in that something may be controlling this body, but I'm not the one pushing the buttons and pulling the levers on it.
Question 6 - "Anything to add?"
Non-duality and the related philosophies seem to really over-complicate this and then build up the expectations that some miraculous experience is supposed to happen when you really understand this, this "enlightenment" idea that they sell in those books, websites, and videos. Going down that path before coming to Liberation Unleashed probably tangled me up for longer than if I had forgone all that reading ahead of time. However, I wasn't the one choosing to read those books...or the one reading, either. How the words on the pages are understood and translated to an inaudible voice is unbelievably complex and not something that I'm pushing all the buttons to make happen. There are feelings of looking forward for the realization of non-doership / lack of being a controller to deepen as well.
Talk to you soon!
Bayou
