Guide to truth

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,

Actually, I'm having a hard time with these questions. I want to be honest in my answers and not guess.

Is there an inside or an outside of the body?
_________________
It feels like there is an inside where "I" live. When a fruit or vegetable is cut open, there is an inside. The same as a human body.
______________________________
If there is an inside; the inside of what exactly?
_____________
I don't know how to answer this.
____________________-
If there is an outside; the outside of what exactly?

I can't answer this either. Sorry!

________________________
Great, so then are there actual objects of any kind?
_____________________
It depends on what you mean by actual object. When I look at my computer mouse I see color. There are thoughts/labels floating around that don't have anything to do with the object. Therefore "computer mouse" as a thought doesn't exist. Is this what you mean?
love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes, so when the concept of there being an “I” that is resistant appears (whether it to be Trump, or whatever) do you stop and actually LOOK at what can be 'resisting'?

Up until now, I haven't looked...

It is only through constant and consistent LOOKING that the realisation happens. No amount of pointing is going to do anything unless you actually LOOK and continue to LOOK at what has been pointed at so far throughout your day, every day.

Describe to me exactly, this “I” that can “experience resistance”?

When I look I don't see an "I." It can't be described.

Yes, because it doesn’t exist.
Just because a thought appears saying, there is an “I”, does it make the “I” real?

Thought says the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Finger is pointing to my forehead. "I" am about the size of a pound of butter.

It is generally believed that thoughts are coming from the head somewhere around the forehead. When we try to trace back the origin of a thought, it is often believed that it's coming from the forehead, because the attention automatically goes to the sensation of the forehead. Investigate this carefully as often as you can throughout the day.

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?

So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?

Have a very deep look here... the forehead is one of the 'residence' of the SENSE of self. Or rather say, the sensation that is labelled as forehead is believed to be one of the location of the sense of self.

I want you to sit in a chair, and then close the eyes and look.
Does not an image/outline of a 'you sitting in a chair' appear? Even when closing the eyes, an image of eyes appear!

Yes, an image of myself appears when I close my eyes.

Yes, so this is the ‘image’ I refer to when I break down what is happening into actual experience. And the label ‘image’ is AE of colour and not the AE of an image.

It is the label/thoughts + sensations + image/colour that create the idea of a ‘me’. Can you see this?

How is it known that the body's eyes see?

This can't be known. It's an assumption.

And what exactly is an assumption?

Further to the belief that thoughts are coming from the head, it's also believed that both the 'visual sight' and 'mental images' are coming from the eyes, because when it's investigated the attention automatically goes to the sensation 'of the eyes', and at the same time the image 'of the eyes' appear with it.

So another SENSE of self is linked to the sensation 'of the eyes'.

What are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?

Can sight come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

Close the eyes and think of something that seemingly makes you angry/resistant...what 'mental' image appears?

Ha-- many mental images, one being Trump insulting your prime minister! I see the color orange.

I want you to LOOK carefully….how do you know that your face has an angry expression on it when you are angry? Close the eyes and think of something that makes you angry, and watch carefully at the 'mental' images that appear and the sensations that occur on the face. Let me know what you noticed.

Great, so then are there actual objects of any kind?

It depends on what you mean by actual object. When I look at my computer mouse I see color. There are thoughts/labels floating around that don't have anything to do with the object. Therefore "computer mouse" as a thought doesn't exist. Is this what you mean?

If you aren’t sure what I am referring to, go back to the last post to reference the question.

In the last post”:
Q: “Also, there is nothing missing ever. Space, gaps and distance are all concepts. Can there actually be an empty space?

A: Hmm... when I look with my eyes (like a baby) I don't see empty space.

So, since you are saying you “don’t see empty space”, then you must be clear that there are no objects?


Love, Kay

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,
It is only through constant and consistent LOOKING that the realisation happens. No amount of pointing is going to do anything unless you actually LOOK and continue to LOOK at what has been pointed at so far throughout your day, every day.

_________________
Thank you for explaining this about constant looking. I feel like I need just one simple thing to concentrate on throughout the day. Would that one thing be that the sense of "I" is thought/sensation/color?
_____________________________


Just because a thought appears saying, there is an “I”, does it make the “I” real?
_________________
Thought saying that the "I" is real doesn't make it real. I've seen this for a while now.

__________________________
It is generally believed that thoughts are coming from the head somewhere around the forehead. When we try to trace back the origin of a thought, it is often believed that it's coming from the forehead, because the attention automatically goes to the sensation of the forehead. Investigate this carefully as often as you can throughout the day.

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?
__________________
Yes, this is what a forehead is-- sensation plus mental image.
_____________________
So, can a thought come from a sensation?
_______________
No-- thoughts can't come from sensations.
___________________
Can a thought come from a mental image?
________________________
Thoughts can't come from mental images.
When I've looked for thoughts, I've never found them in my forehead.
__________________________

It is the label/thoughts + sensations + image/colour that create the idea of a ‘me’. Can you see this?
_________________
Yes, I see this but need to keep looking at it.
______________________

How is it known that the body's eyes see?

This can't be known. It's an assumption.

And what exactly is an assumption?
______________
An assumption is a thought.
_____________________

Further to the belief that thoughts are coming from the head, it's also believed that both the 'visual sight' and 'mental images' are coming from the eyes, because when it's investigated the attention automatically goes to the sensation 'of the eyes', and at the same time the image 'of the eyes' appear with it.

So another SENSE of self is linked to the sensation 'of the eyes'.

What are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?
______________
Yes, the eyes are a sensation plus a mental image.
__________________________

Can sight come from a sensation?
_________________
No, sight can't come from a sensation.
______________________
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?
___________________
No, sight can't come from an image.
_______________________

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
____________
No, a mental image can't come from a sensation.
___________
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?
______________
No, a mental image can't come from another mental image.
____________


I want you to LOOK carefully….how do you know that your face has an angry expression on it when you are angry? Close the eyes and think of something that makes you angry, and watch carefully at the 'mental' images that appear and the sensations that occur on the face. Let me know what you noticed.
________________
I noticed sensations in the face -- heat and tightening-- plus mental images.

________________________

So, since you are saying you “don’t see empty space”, then you must be clear that there are no objects?
_____________
I don't understand this question. I need more guidance.
love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn,

It is only through constant and consistent LOOKING that the realisation happens. No amount of pointing is going to do anything unless you actually LOOK and continue to LOOK at what has been pointed at so far throughout your day, every day.

Thank you for explaining this about constant looking. I feel like I need just one simple thing to concentrate on throughout the day. Would that one thing be that the sense of "I" is thought/sensation/color?

At the beginning we did the AE exercise, where I got you to break down experience(s) into sound, thought, smell, colour, sensation and taste. As a practice continue to do this.

If you are wanting to LOOK closer at what thought says is a ‘me’, then when you are triggered by something, that is a good time to stop and LOOK, like I showed you with the concept of ‘resistance’.

For example, if you kick your toe and there is pain….break it down as follows.

The label/thought ‘my toe is in pain’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of pain
Does the label ‘pain’ know anything about pain?
Does the thought “my toe is in pain” know anything about pain?

The sensation labelled ‘pain’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of pain
Does the sensation itself know anything about pain?

The image labelled ‘toe/body/me’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of pain.
Does the image ‘toe’ know anything about pain?
Does the image ‘body’ know anything about pain?
Does the image ‘me’ know anything about pain?

So can anyone in pain be found? No. So what is actually appearing as experience label/thought + sensation + colour.

Is this clear on how to break 'stuff' down into AE?

It is generally believed that thoughts are coming from the head somewhere around the forehead. When we try to trace back the origin of a thought, it is often believed that it's coming from the forehead, because the attention automatically goes to the sensation of the forehead. Investigate this carefully as often as you can throughout the day.

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?
Yes, this is what a forehead is-- sensation plus mental image.
So, can a thought come from a sensation?
No-- thoughts can't come from sensations.
Can a thought come from a mental image?
Thoughts can't come from mental images.
When I've looked for thoughts, I've never found them in my forehead.

So, can a ‘me’ be found in the forehead at all, anywhere? Can you find where ‘you’ reside anywhere in the forehead?

And if you haven’t found thoughts come from your forehead, just replace the word ‘forehead’ with ‘head’ and repeat the exercise.

Close the eyes and put a tip of finger to the top of the head. Ignore all thoughts and images of finger and head…and what is the actual experience?

It is the label/thoughts + sensations + image/colour that create the idea of a ‘me’. Can you see this?

Yes, I see this but need to keep looking at it.

Yes…good. Keep LOOKING. When you are doing the dishes…look for the ‘me’ that is doing the dishes…break it down into AE. When showering, when typing, when eating…every moment presents an opportunity to break it down into AE to see there is no ‘me’.

How is it known that the body's eyes see?
This can't be known. It's an assumption.
And what exactly is an assumption?

An assumption is a thought.

Yes, and do thoughts know anything?

So another SENSE of self is linked to the sensation 'of the eyes'.
What are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?
Yes, the eyes are a sensation plus a mental image.
Can sight come from a sensation?
No, sight can't come from a sensation.
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?
No, sight can't come from an image.
Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
No, a mental image can't come from a sensation.
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?
No, a mental image can't come from another mental image.

Wonderful…so can the body’s eyes see?


Is there a difference between a ‘mental’ image and a ‘visual’ image?

I want you to LOOK carefully….how do you know that your face has an angry expression on it when you are angry? Close the eyes and think of something that makes you angry, and watch carefully at the 'mental' images that appear and the sensations that occur on the face. Let me know what you noticed.

I noticed sensations in the face -- heat and tightening-- plus mental images.

Yes, great!

The label ‘anger’ is AE of thought and not the AE of anger
The labels ‘heat’ and ‘tightening’ are the AE of sensation and not the AE of heat and tightening or anger.
The ‘mental’ images are AE of colour and not the AE of “mental’ images” or anger.

So what is the AE of anger? Label + sensation + colour + thought ABOUT anger. Can anyone/anything be found that is angry?
Is this clear?

Are you clear now why I included ‘colour’ (image) in the breakdown of ‘resistance’?

So, since you are saying you “don’t see empty space”, then you must be clear that there are no objects?

I don't understand this question. I need more guidance.

We will look at objects later.

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,

At the beginning we did the AE exercise, where I got you to break down experience(s) into sound, thought, smell, colour, sensation and taste. As a practice continue to do this.
____________
Last night I spent most of the night in the emergency room with my mom (she is ok). So today I rested a lot. I had a chance to do some looking. I was breaking experience down into sensation plus thought/labeling plus mental images. For a very long time there was a large noisy tractor in the street outside. I had thoughts about it like "Why is it there?" "It shouldn't be there." "When is it going to leave?" I also noticed the mental images I had of what the tractor looked like. I experienced the bodily sensations. I experienced the sounds.
I looked at other experiences as well as I lay there with my eyes closed.

________________________

If you are wanting to LOOK closer at what thought says is a ‘me’, then when you are triggered by something, that is a good time to stop and LOOK, like I showed you with the concept of ‘resistance’.

For example, if you kick your toe and there is pain….break it down as follows.

The label/thought ‘my toe is in pain’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of pain
Does the label ‘pain’ know anything about pain?
Does the thought “my toe is in pain” know anything about pain?
________________
No, the thought doesn't know about pain. (Which is a label, right?)
______________
The sensation labelled ‘pain’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of pain
Does the sensation itself know anything about pain?
________________
No, the sensation doesn't know about pain.
________________________
The image labelled ‘toe/body/me’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of pain.
Does the image ‘toe’ know anything about pain?
______________
No. These things-- sensation, mental image, and thought (the pain) seem to be connected but are not.
____________________
Does the image ‘body’ know anything about pain?
________________
No, the mental image doesn't know about pain.
__________________
Does the image ‘me’ know anything about pain?
____________________
No-- these things are not connected.
_______________________
So can anyone in pain be found? No. So what is actually appearing as experience label/thought + sensation + colour.
_________________
There is nothing outside label/thought + sensation + colour.
_______________
Is this clear on how to break 'stuff' down into AE?
_____________
This is getting clearer.
________________

So, can a ‘me’ be found in the forehead at all, anywhere?
_____________
No "me" can be found in the forehead.
_____________
Can you find where ‘you’ reside anywhere in the forehead?
___________________
No

And if you haven’t found thoughts come from your forehead, just replace the word ‘forehead’ with ‘head’ and repeat the exercise.

Close the eyes and put a tip of finger to the top of the head. Ignore all thoughts and images of finger and head…and what is the actual experience?
________________
The actual experience is sensation.

______________________

An assumption is a thought.

________________
Yes, and do thoughts know anything?
______________
Thoughts don't know anything.
____________________

Wonderful…so can the body’s eyes see?
________________
If the eyes are sensation plus mental image plus label, I guess they can't see. But I'm not really clear on this one.
_______________________
Is there a difference between a ‘mental’ image and a ‘visual’ image?
______________________
It seems there isn't a difference between mental and visual images.

_________
The label ‘anger’ is AE of thought and not the AE of anger
_______________
Is this because there is no AE of anger. Anger is a label/thought that can't be seen?
_____________________________
The labels ‘heat’ and ‘tightening’ are the AE of sensation and not the AE of heat and tightening or anger.
____________
Is that because heat and tightening and anger are thoughts and can't be seen?
______________________
The ‘mental’ images are AE of colour and not the AE of “mental’ images” or anger.

So what is the AE of anger? Label + sensation + colour + thought ABOUT anger. Can anyone/anything be found that is angry?
Is this clear?
______________
No one can be found because the other things-- label, sensation, color, and thought-- are all that exist. This is pretty clear.
_____________
Are you clear now why I included ‘colour’ (image) in the breakdown of ‘resistance’?
___________
Yes, I understand why you included color. Color is the same as mental and visual imagery. When there is resistance there are always images.

Thank you!
love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn,

I would like for you to go back and read the entire thread from where you and I started to explore the illusory self. Redo the exercises as well please, so that you get a handle on the nature of thought and get a handle on what actual experience is.

I am going to break down anger, once again...and I want you to really LOOK at it and sit with it, so that you get to see what I am pointing at. You described anger as 'heat' and 'tightening', so I am using your words for the sensations.

1) The LABEL 'anger' and theTHOUGHTS about 'anger' are the AE of thought and are NOT the AE of anger.
Can thoughts/labels know anything about anger?
Can thoughts/labels get angry?

2) The SENSATION labelled 'anger' (ie 'heat' and 'tightening') are the AE of sensation and are not the AE of anger
Do sensations know anything about anger?
Can sensation itself become angry?

3) The IMAGE/COLOUR labelled person/me/I/body is the AE of colour and not the AE of a person who is angry.
Does colour know anything about anger?
Can an image become angry?

So what is the actual experience of 'anger'? Really LOOK.

Actually sit with this exercise or replace 'anger' with some other emotion that comes up for you and actually do this exercise. Sit and close your eyes see the word 'anger' (or whatever the emotion is) in the minds eye and ask:

Can the label 'anger' know anything about about anger...and LOOK

Then focus on the sensation labelled 'anger' that is in the 'body' and ask if the sensation knows anything about anger...and LOOK.

Then have a look at the image/colour and ask yourself if the image/colour knows anything about anger...and LOOK.

Then have a look in every 'nook and cranny' of the 'body' and anywhere else you would like to look and see if you can find anything that is 'angry'.

Let me know how you go.

Take a couple of days and really LOOK with all emotions that appear and continue to break down experience into AE as you go about your day. When cooking, when showering, when walking, when watching TV...look to see what the AE is. Go back and read the beginning of our exploration and redo the exercises as you find them.

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay--
I just wanted to clarify a couple of things. I do want to go back and do the exercises, but I'm having trouble seeing your posts prior to february 5. I tried to navigate but kept getting flipped back to very old posts with Barry, my previous guide. Is there an easy way?

I think I understand what you mean about looking at anger, or another emotion. But I wanted to clarify what you mean by the constant looking while cooking, showering, etc. Do you mean breaking it down into sensation, thoughts, mental/visual images (color), plus the other four senses? Continually seeing how experience is made up of these strands? (and only these strands?)

Thank you!
love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn,

I just wanted to clarify a couple of things. I do want to go back and do the exercises, but I'm having trouble seeing your posts prior to february 5. I tried to navigate but kept getting flipped back to very old posts with Barry, my previous guide. Is there an easy way?

Just use the page numbering at the bottom of the posts and then scroll down. However, here is the page where we start the exploration together.

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... 95#p200851

I think I understand what you mean about looking at anger, or another emotion. But I wanted to clarify what you mean by the constant looking while cooking, showering, etc. Do you mean breaking it down into sensation, thoughts, mental/visual images (color), plus the other four senses? Continually seeing how experience is made up of these strands? (and only these strands?)

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. When having a shower, break it down into AE. See if you can find 'water' or 'body' or are they simply sensation? The thoughts about water and body are simply, thought. The smell of shampoo is simply, smell and thoughts about the smell being shampoo is simply, thought...and so on.

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,
I've gone back through our conversation and revisited the exercises.
I'm also doing lots of looking. I'm beginning to understand that "no self" might not just mean that there is no one inside here. It could mean that nothing -- no "self"-- is holding the strands together-- color is one thing. Sensation is another. Thought is another. They aren't necessarily connected. I've had a nano glimpse of this and it was a bit mindblowing. A bit scary... But I am marching forward.
love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hello Carolyn,

I've gone back through our conversation and revisited the exercises.
I'm also doing lots of looking. I'm beginning to understand that "no self" might not just mean that there is no one inside here. It could mean that nothing -- no "self"-- is holding the strands together-- color is one thing. Sensation is another. Thought is another. They aren't necessarily connected. I've had a nano glimpse of this and it was a bit mindblowing. A bit scary... But I am marching forward.

Terrific, Carolyn! Keep on LOOKING! :)

So, let’s go back to your previous post.

So, can a ‘me’ be found in the forehead at all, anywhere?

No "me" can be found in the forehead.

So, let’s do the following again and see what happens.

Thought says the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Close the eyes and put a tip of finger to the top of the head. Ignore all thoughts and images of finger and head…and what is the actual experience?

The actual experience is sensation.

Yes, great, so is the ‘head’ actual experience? Is there actual experience of a ‘head’?

Wonderful…so can the body’s eyes see?

If the eyes are sensation plus mental image plus label, I guess they can't see. But I'm not really clear on this one.

Examine the eyes closely by closing the eyes and watching what appears as thought and images about the eyes. Then ignore all thought and images and what is there? Open the eyes and ignore all thought and images and what is there? What is the AE of eyes?

Is there a difference between a ‘mental’ image and a ‘visual’ image?

It seems there isn't a difference between mental and visual images.

It ‘seems is just another way of saying “I guess” or “I’m not sure”…please LOOK and tell me if you can find a difference between a ‘mental’ image and ‘visual’ image’. We did exercises on mental and visual images...so go back and read them again if necessary and have another LOOK.

Let me know if there is a difference between a ‘mental’ image and a ‘visual’ image.

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,

In the couple of days when I was looking, it was easiest when I was concentrating on this object here- the body. Separating the strands-- sensations separate from color, sensations separate from thoughts. (sometimes sounds, tastes, smells, but those were minor) That exploration seemed most close at hand. When I looked out at other objects I lost focus.


Yes, great, so is the ‘head’ actual experience? The head isn't actually experience. It is sensations plus images plus thoughts about a head.
______________
Is there actual experience of a ‘head’?
_____________________
No AE of the head. "Head" is a concept.
________________

Examine the eyes closely by closing the eyes and watching what appears as thought and images about the eyes. Then ignore all thought and images and what is there?
___________________
There is only sensation.
________________
Open the eyes and ignore all thought and images and what is there? What is the AE of eyes?
________________
The AE of eyes is sensation.
__________________-

Let me know if there is a difference between a ‘mental’ image and a ‘visual’ image.
____________
I did explore this and I still find a difference. "Mental" seems to be in here and is fuzzier. "Visual" is out there and clear. I do see that if I see there is no difference that this will break down a big wall between inner and outer.
love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hey Carolyn,

In the couple of days when I was looking, it was easiest when I was concentrating on this object here- the body. Separating the strands-- sensations separate from color, sensations separate from thoughts. (sometimes sounds, tastes, smells, but those were minor) That exploration seemed most close at hand. When I looked out at other objects I lost focus.

That’s okay. We will look at the body and look at objects later. A step at a time :)

Yes, great, so is the ‘head’ actual experience? The head isn't actually experience. It is sensations plus images plus thoughts about a head.
Is there actual experience of a ‘head’?

No AE of the head. "Head" is a concept.

Yes! How is it known that you have a head? Can you see a ‘head’ at all times, or are there only thoughts ABOUT a ‘head’?

Examine the eyes closely by closing the eyes and watching what appears as thought and images about the eyes. Then ignore all thought and images and what is there?

There is only sensation.

Open the eyes and ignore all thought and images and what is there? What is the AE of eyes?

The AE of eyes is sensation.

Yes, so the AE of eyes is thoughtcoloursensation.
Is there any actual experience of ‘eyes”? If not, then do the body’s eyes actually see? Is there such a thing as ‘visual’ images?

Let me know if there is a difference between a ‘mental’ image and a ‘visual’ image.

I did explore this and I still find a difference. "Mental" seems to be in here and is fuzzier. "Visual" is out there and clear. I do see that if I see there is no difference that this will break down a big wall between inner and outer.

Have a look at the previous questions about 'eyes' and about the 'head'. If there is no actual experience of 'eyes' or a 'head', how can there possibly be a difference between a 'mental' image and a 'visual' image'. It is only thought that defines them as mental = coming from the head (what head?) and visual = coming from the eyes (what eyes)? And it is only a thought that say "Mental seems to be in her and is fuzzier" and "Visual is out there and clear". Can you see this?

Let's have a LOOK at the body.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay--
This line of questioning feels familiar since I've been experimenting with the Headless Way for a couple of years now. Which is how I found my way to LU.

How is it known that you have a head?
________________
I only imagine I have a head through sensations and mental/visual imagery and through thoughts about the head.
_____________
Can you see a ‘head’ at all times, or are there only thoughts ABOUT a ‘head’?
____________
I can't see a head except in reflections. There are only thoughts about a head.
___________________

Have a look at the previous questions about 'eyes' and about the 'head'. If there is no actual experience of 'eyes' or a 'head', how can there possibly be a difference between a 'mental' image and a 'visual' image'. It is only thought that defines them as mental = coming from the head (what head?) and visual = coming from the eyes (what eyes)? And it is only a thought that say "Mental seems to be in her and is fuzzier" and "Visual is out there and clear". Can you see this?
__________
When I look at this it's clear. But to be honest I still feel like there's a difference...
____________
Let's have a LOOK at the body.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
________________
No it can't be known how tall the body is. In my experience, the "body" is patchy every-changing sensations plus mental images of it being a sort of gingerbread man shape. Even images don't show the whole thing-- the back of it is always missing. Sitting here now I can only see my hands, part of my arms, and the tip of my head. Thoughts and mental images create the rest.
_____________
Does the body have a weight or volume?
____________
As sensation, the body doesn't have a weight or volume.
____________________

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
____________
No-- the body is a collection of fragmentary sensations.
_______________
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
____________
No boundary between body and clothing.
___________
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
____________
No boundary between body and chair.

Is there an inside or an outside?
____________
The sensations exist-- not sure where-- but they aren't inside or outside of anything.
___________
If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
__________
No inside.
____________
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?
___________
No outside.
__________________
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
____________
The label "body" refers to random sensations and color.
____________
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
___________
The AE of the body is sensation plus color plus mental/visual images plus thoughts about the body.

love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn,

You are not answering all my questions. Please answer all questions that are in blue text.
The two following questions have not been answered and I would like an answer to them please.

So, can a ‘me’ be found in the forehead at all, anywhere?

No "me" can be found in the forehead.

So, let’s do the following again and see what happens.

Thought says the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Open the eyes and ignore all thought and images and what is there? What is the AE of eyes?

The AE of eyes is sensation.

Yes, so the AE of eyes is thoughtcoloursensation.
Is there any actual experience of ‘eyes”? If not, then do the body’s eyes actually see? Is there such a thing as ‘visual’ images?

How is it known that you have a head?

I only imagine I have a head through sensations and mental/visual imagery and through thoughts about the head.

Where exactly is this “I” that is imagining a ‘head”? Describe this “I” to me in precise detail please.

Can you see a ‘head’ at all times, or are there only thoughts ABOUT a ‘head’?

I can't see a head except in reflections. There are only thoughts about a head.

So, go have a look in a mirror, and what is the AE of a head?
How is it known that this head is ‘yours’?
What exactly is it that is “seeing a head”?

Have a look at the previous questions about 'eyes' and about the 'head'. If there is no actual experience of 'eyes' or a 'head', how can there possibly be a difference between a 'mental' image and a 'visual' image'. It is only thought that defines them as mental = coming from the head (what head?) and visual = coming from the eyes (what eyes)? And it is only a thought that say "Mental seems to be in here and is fuzzier" and "Visual is out there and clear". Can you see this?

When I look at this it's clear. But to be honest I still feel like there's a difference...

There seems to be an expectation that clear seeing will always happen!
The only constant in THIS is change, however, are you ever not aware of sound, colour, thought, smell, taste, sensation? Are you ever confused or not clear about their ‘appearance’?

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No it can't be known how tall the body is. In my experience, the "body" is patchy every-changing sensations plus mental images of it being a sort of gingerbread man shape. Even images don't show the whole thing-- the back of it is always missing. Sitting here now I can only see my hands, part of my arms, and the tip of my head. Thoughts and mental images create the rest.

What is it exactly that is having ‘experiences’? Can a dividing line be found between ‘experience’ and ‘experiencer’?

Does the body have a weight or volume?

As sensation, the body doesn't have a weight or volume.

How can the body possibly be sensation, since the body itself is just colour?
Can colour have sensation? Is colour aware of sensation?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No-- the body is a collection of fragmentary sensations.

There is no body.

The label ‘body’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of a body
The sensations labelled ‘body’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of a body
The colour labelled ‘body’ is AE of colour and not the AE of a body

So, all that is appearing is thought + sensation + colour….where in this is a body?

Thought labels ‘colours’, ‘sensations’ (cold/hot/pressure etc) etc as a body - but no actual body is present. Thought does this with *everything* that seems to exist and to create the 'person in the world' illusion.

Have a look at this picture.



Thought says that this is a picture of a person called Albert Einstein.

But just notice that all that's actually present in the picture is colour. That's all that's there. Thought describes colour as hair, tongue, face, eyes, nose, head, and so on. Is there actual experience of any of those ‘things’ or is there just colour?

The image of Einstein is just a story. There is no Einstein of *any* kind present. Just a story.

Now notice that thought is doing this with *everything*. In fact, without thought, there wouldn't even seem to be any things/objects!

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No boundary between body and clothing.

What is it that is there, that thought labels as a boundary? It is sensation…but can any actual boundary or any actual body, skin or clothing be found in AE? Notice how thought places boundaries ‘between’ things and labels them. ‘Space’ and ‘distance’ being just an example of boundaries/dividing lines as well.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No boundary between body and chair.

What did you find? What was the actual experience?

Is there an inside or an outside?

The sensations exist-- not sure where-- but they aren't inside or outside of anything.

Wonderful! What is the AE of ‘location’? Does the word ‘location’ point to AE or does it point to thought stories?

If you were to simply notice what actually IS, you'd see that sensation doesn't have location or duration. And you know that because the sensation plainly IS, without thought required to know it. However the ideas of duration and location require thought.

If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

No inside.

Exactly! What is the AE of ‘skin’, and the so called ‘inside of a body’?

If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

No outside.

Yes, no outside either. The body is colour…so how could it possibly have an inside or an outside?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The label "body" refers to random sensations and color.

The WORD/LABEL actually refers to the AE of thought.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The AE of the body is sensation plus color plus mental/visual images plus thoughts about the body.

The AE of the body is thought. Colour is not a body…it is the AE of colour.

There is not colour + mental and visual images. Mental and visual images are colour.
Do the body’s’eyes’ see? Does the ‘head’ actually imagine?


Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,
Sorry not to answer all the questions. What happens is this-- when I copy and paste your entire message the blue disappears and so do the orange boxes. I get confused about what I've answered before and what is new. Maybe you could put questions to be answered in italics instead of in blue?

In any case, I have a couple of crazy days coming up and need more time than usual to answer these excellent questions. I wish I could figure out how to print off your post-- it'd be easier to refer to.

Thank you for your kind diligence.
Love,
Carolyn