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Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:49 am
by MerlinC
I cant know what he meant I can only speculate.
Lets talk about thought and choice.
If there is no you who can make them then how do you choose?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:23 pm
by sophie1
Logically, if there is no "me", there is no one to make a choice while and I can see that sequences of previous thoughts, feelings and events shaped the decision and there couldn't be a different decision, but only this one. However, there is still a belief that I make choices. Probably the feeling of being able to choose is my mind's resistance to accept that there is no choice.
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:48 pm
by MerlinC
who thinks?
is the mind anymore then a label for something having thoughts and what would that something be?
what produces thoughts and who is having them?
what is a thought?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:23 pm
by sophie1
who thinks?
no one, thoughts happen
is the mind anymore then a label for something having thoughts and what would that something be?
as you said, it's a label for our mental capacity
what is a thought?
it is a mental sensation
what produces thoughts and who is having them?
they happen on their own, they are like clouds on the blue sky of awareness. Who is having the real clouds? the clouds just are.
Thoughts create "me", "me" is seen as one who does the thinking, controls and makes choices...
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:37 pm
by MerlinC
if its not there then how can it do anything?
and even when it says it does where is the proof in reality? how can thought move your legs to walk, doesn't that make what the thought storys just a belief?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:47 pm
by sophie1
It cannot move my legs to walk, walking happens automatically, but the body can follow the idea that appears in the thoughts if it is a deliberate movement. Let's say you decide to draw a circle on the sand with your foot, first the idea of it appears and then the movement of foot follows. Do the thoughts do the movement of foot? There is a sense of a command or call to action given to the foot to draw the circle by the thoughts. Let's take another example.
doesn't that make what the thought storys just a belief?
not clear
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:25 am
by MerlinC
so who controls thoughts?
are thoughts having thoughts?
whos having them and does them?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:26 am
by MerlinC
do you control thoughts?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:54 pm
by sophie1
I don't control thoughts, there is no "I"
Thoughts are not having thoughts
No one does them or having them, they happen,
One can trace a change of direction in thoughts to previous thoughts. The change happens as a result of previous thoughts. No one who controls thoughts or does thoughts.
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:23 pm
by MerlinC
so whats control?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:58 pm
by sophie1
Is a sense that you can change things or choose things on your own will
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:17 pm
by MerlinC
what's the experience of taking a walk or clenching a fist?
wheres the part where thought controls those actions?
when walking stop and then continue and stop again and see what happens, is their a doer?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:47 am
by sophie1
You gave me an idea of clenching a fist as well as stopping and continuing. It registered in my mind as a thought. The thought gets translated into an action. There is no need to think during an action when a general command has already been given by the thought.
wheres the part where thought controls those actions?
There is probably a centre in the brain that commands body to act upon an idea when the decision to act is formed. The doer is a part in the mind that is connected to that brain centre. The nature of that connection is not clear to me. All that I can see is that there is a centre that translate an idea into a body movement.
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:11 am
by MerlinC
where is this center?
Re: eyes wide shut? lets open them
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:00 pm
by sophie1
in the brain
perceived in the head
Here is an example, you want to kill a mosquito, you hold your hand ready, when your mind perceive it is the right moment, a command is given and you make a fast movement with your hand. The decision and command happens in the head.