eyes wide shut? lets open them

[MerlinC]

I cant know what he meant I can only speculate.
Lets talk about thought and choice.
If there is no you who can make them then how do you choose?

[sophie1]

Logically, if there is no "me", there is no one to make a choice while and I can see that sequences of previous thoughts, feelings and events shaped the decision and there couldn't be a different decision, but only this one. However, there is still a belief that I make choices. Probably the feeling of being able to choose is my mind's resistance to accept that there is no choice.

[MerlinC]

who thinks?
is the mind anymore then a label for something having thoughts and what would that something be?
what produces thoughts and who is having them?
what is a thought?

[sophie1]

who thinks?

no one, thoughts happen

is the mind anymore then a label for something having thoughts and what would that something be?

as you said, it's a label for our mental capacity

what is a thought?

it is a mental sensation

what produces thoughts and who is having them?

they happen on their own, they are like clouds on the blue sky of awareness. Who is having the real clouds? the clouds just are.
Thoughts create "me", "me" is seen as one who does the thinking, controls and makes choices...

[MerlinC]

if its not there then how can it do anything?
and even when it says it does where is the proof in reality? how can thought move your legs to walk, doesn't that make what the thought storys just a belief?

[sophie1]

It cannot move my legs to walk, walking happens automatically, but the body can follow the idea that appears in the thoughts if it is a deliberate movement. Let's say you decide to draw a circle on the sand with your foot, first the idea of it appears and then the movement of foot follows. Do the thoughts do the movement of foot? There is a sense of a command or call to action given to the foot to draw the circle by the thoughts. Let's take another example.

doesn't that make what the thought storys just a belief?

not clear

[MerlinC]

so who controls thoughts?
are thoughts having thoughts?
whos having them and does them?

[MerlinC]

do you control thoughts?

[sophie1]

I don't control thoughts, there is no "I"
Thoughts are not having thoughts
No one does them or having them, they happen,
One can trace a change of direction in thoughts to previous thoughts. The change happens as a result of previous thoughts. No one who controls thoughts or does thoughts.

[MerlinC]

so whats control?

[sophie1]

Is a sense that you can change things or choose things on your own will

[MerlinC]

what's the experience of taking a walk or clenching a fist?
wheres the part where thought controls those actions?
when walking stop and then continue and stop again and see what happens, is their a doer?

[sophie1]

You gave me an idea of clenching a fist as well as stopping and continuing. It registered in my mind as a thought. The thought gets translated into an action. There is no need to think during an action when a general command has already been given by the thought.

wheres the part where thought controls those actions?

There is probably a centre in the brain that commands body to act upon an idea when the decision to act is formed. The doer is a part in the mind that is connected to that brain centre. The nature of that connection is not clear to me. All that I can see is that there is a centre that translate an idea into a body movement.

[MerlinC]

where is this center?

[sophie1]

in the brain
perceived in the head
Here is an example, you want to kill a mosquito, you hold your hand ready, when your mind perceive it is the right moment, a command is given and you make a fast movement with your hand. The decision and command happens in the head.