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[GotIt]

Just checking in for today.

I'm trying to relax, let go, observe and let things happen (observe things as they happen).

Something will happen. Seeing something, hearing something or even just thinking something will trigger a discovery of how it works.

I think you're right about this. I haven't seen anything today (Well, I've seen life happening, but haven't seen how it works.), but I think it will happen like you describe it.

[vinceschubert]

I'm trying to relax, let go, observe and let things happen (observe things as they happen).

Ok, this is good.
"Trying to relax" is an oxymoron. "Trying" and "Relaxing" can't exist together.
"Letting go" means No longer hanging on. Releasing the grip.
"Observe" means direct seeing without opinion or judgement about either what is being observed or about the quality of the observing.
Ah, the big one, "letting things happen". Is this a recognition that Things can happen without an I claiming ownership ?
To be able to "let things happen", we have to accept that we are not the cause of happenings.
To be able to "let things happen", we need to Not Touch the happening. Not distort it. Just Observing a happening will change it. To have opinions about the happening distorts it big time. Opinions are judgements that approve or disapprove and evoke strong emotion.
To "let things happen" means accepting EVERYTHING that occurs, including not 'letting things happen'.
To "let things happen" is to Surrender to the IS. Willing Acceptance of Reality, That is a Welcoming Invitation to Everything that you are Experiencing.
This Is IT !

[GotIt]

Not feeling well tonight, but getting better. Was going to wait until tomorrow to write, but decided not to:

Had the thought last night that "things don't need a "me" to work/happen". Getting ready to go to bed, and thinking that I can just go to bed. I will fall asleep right away or I won't, but I don't need a me for it to happen. I don't have to do anything for it to happen. It will just happen. I was getting ready for bed and going to bed and telling myself that: "things don't need a "me" to work/happen". I can just go to bed, and I will fall asleep.

Was looking up stuff online last night (started with LU and ended up elsewhere--Buddha at the Gas Pump, and yes, I know I'm not supposed to be reading, but I do look at the LU stuff sometimes) and found:

http://www.thewizardllc.com/wp-content/ ... garde-Sage
s-eBook-for-iPad1.pdf

The Wizard is talking to Ilona and says:

"And the present moment requires no thought for its sentience, and sentience is that very sense of existence itself, this nondual, there's no second, there's no other."

This resonated with me in terms of the above thought that "things don't need a "me" to work/happen".

Now I'm looking at the "things don't need a "me" to work/happen" and telling myself to look at that in regards to things I do throughout the day.

Don't tell Vince, but the "things don't need a "me" to work/happen", although I'm still not seeing things, feels like a step forward (Okay, I saw that idea, so I'm seeing something and looking for it, even if I'm not having a felt sense of it.)! ;)

Ok, this is good.
"Trying to relax" is an oxymoron. "Trying" and "Relaxing" can't exist together.

You're right!

Ah, the big one, "letting things happen". Is this a recognition that Things can happen without an I claiming ownership ?

See above about the idea of "things don't need a "me" to work/happen".

To be able to "let things happen", we have to accept that we are not the cause of happenings.

I'll look at this.

To be able to "let things happen", we need to Not Touch the happening. Not distort it. Just Observing a happening will change it. To have opinions about the happening distorts it big time. Opinions are judgements that approve or disapprove and evoke strong emotion.

I think you're right about this, and it seems down the road for me to see this (and I will see it!).

[GotIt]

Correction, it should be:

http://www.thewizardllc.com

Conversations with Avant-garde Sages

http://www.thewizardllc.com/conversations

[GotIt]

Checking in for today. Not seeing anything, but am being aware of "things don't need a "me" to work/happen" and looking at that throughout the day as I do things. Some things seem to need a "me", but that's probably just "my" stories playing.

That "things don't need a "me" to work/happen" still feels very real/strong, etc. like something nice to realize. I see it best with the going to bed, and it's harder to see with things like driving, doing active things during the day, etc.

[vinceschubert]

it's harder to see with things like driving, doing active things during the day, etc.

Yes, quite so, but that's just habit. Conditioning.
It's the belief (BELIEF) that a self is required, and indeed is doing the 'driving' of life, where identification is.
You appear to be seeing through this quite well now.
So, Rose, is there an I anywhere, in any form ? Has there ever been an actual I ?

[GotIt]

You appear to be seeing through this quite well now.

Wasn't going to respond just yet, but felt the need to. Trying hard not to get defensive to the above statement. Every time it comes up, I get reactive and want to go to the "I'm not seeing anything.". It feels like pressure to see things, and do and be and say things I haven't seen (especially say things, like saying I see it when I don't, which I wouldn't do). I don't know why, but I want to say this because I'm trying hard not to just go to the defensive, reactive stuff and be open minded. Maybe it's just underlying fear from my "I" being afraid of losing itself or something--or maybe I'm just a jerk! ;)

So, Rose, is there an I anywhere, in any form ? Has there ever been an actual I ?

Again, I get defensive with this question, as I still feel like there is an I.

I'm going to try to keep looking at the "things don't need a "me" to work/happen", to try to see the no "I", and I'm also going to try to not go to the defensive stuff as it doesn't get me anywhere.

It's the belief (BELIEF) that a self is required, and indeed is doing the 'driving' of life, where identification is.

I'm also going to look at this.

Thanks for putting up with "me" and my defensiveness.

[vinceschubert]

Rose, i understand what you are saying.
This isn't something you can fake, even if you wanted to. (who might want to ?)
You are probably spot on when you say;

Maybe it's just underlying fear from my "I" being afraid of losing itself or something

or maybe I'm just a jerk! ;)

This is not possible. The "I'm" your talking about doesn't exist.
You can't lost what never existed.
You can't see no self. Can you see Santa Clause or Batman? NO!. You can only see a picture of an imaginary character or some dressed as it. Search the world for the rest of your life and you won't find what never existed.
In the same way you will never find No-Self.
You will never lose Self.
Because i didn't have a sonic boom when i woke up, i had doubt thoughts for a while (http://vince-wisingup.blogspot.com.au/search?q=doubts)
You are looking for something in the future.
This discovery can only happen NOW.
IT IS ALREADY WITH YOU! Nothing needs to change. It is the Recognition that what IS, is What Is.
We are not waiting for something to change before accepting it as Reality.
Waiting to SEE is reality NOW.
Doubts are reality NOW.
All stories that you are running are reality NOW. (not their content, or rather not what their content point to.)
Self is one of those stories. It will stay a story.
The story will change quickly once awakening occurs. It will still be a story, only there wont be identification with it anymore.
Nothing will change. Everything will be different.

[GotIt]

Thanks.

This is not possible. The "I'm" your talking about doesn't exist.

Okay.

Okay, I'm trying to be open minded and go with the "things don't need a "me" to work/happen" and the doubt stuff you mention. The "things don't need a "me" to work/happen" helps me see no self, but right now I only see it in relation to going to bed/going to sleep.

You are looking for something in the future.
This discovery can only happen NOW.

I hadn't thought I was looking for something in the future.

We are not waiting for something to change before accepting it as Reality.

I don't think I'm expecting things to change, although I could be totally wrong about this. I think it will all be the same, and yet different somehow. I don't know.

Doubts are reality NOW.

Okay, I'm trying to be with the doubt, to see it, as nothing seems any different (Okay, me getting defensive again.).

All stories that you are running are reality NOW. (not their content, or rather not what their content point to.)
Self is one of those stories. It will stay a story.

Will look for the stories, and especially the story/ies about a self.

The story will change quickly once awakening occurs. It will still be a story, only there wont be identification with it anymore.

I wish this would happen and asap!!!

[GotIt]

I think I want it and "I" don't want it or something (hence, the doubt). I DO want it, though!

I want it, and I get so frustrated and defensive when you ask if there is an I anywhere, or when you tell me that I appear to be seeing through!

[vinceschubert]

I wish this would happen and asap!!!

...when ?

I want it

This is Reality, just observe it.

I get so frustrated

...just observe it.

and defensive

..keep watching.
...and relax. (or not)

[vinceschubert]

I want it and "I" don't want it or something

Ask the "I don't want it" part, what it is afraid of, or why it doesn't want it, and wait for the first arising thought.

[GotIt]

...when ?

Like yesterday!

GotIt wrote:I want it

This is Reality, just observe it.

Note to myself: watch the wanting. Oh, and as Vince might say, nothing changes, there's just what is, here, right now, it's already here, so how can you want something that is already here.

Ask the "I don't want it" part, what it is afraid of, or why it doesn't want it, and wait for the first arising thought.

Okay, I don't want it if it's hard. I don't want to have to do anything to change or do anything to be different. I don't want to have to let go of my "self" or have that Rose person let go of "me". I don't want it if it's hard.

what it is afraid of

"I" don't want to lose control. "I" don't want to give up control. It might be really hard, and I'd have to let go, and I might fail at it or something and Vince wouldn't like me (although, he doesn't even know me, so why would it matter to me if he liked me or not?), and it's like shedding your skin, and you don't know what will happen after you shed it, and you don't know what the after looks like, so you don't know what it will be like after you let go of the "I", and you can't see yourself in your next incarnation, so you don't know if it's safe (I think it is, cause people have done and haven't said it's not safe. Oh, and if it isn't safe, you're a big enough person to deal with it, you can deal with it, and you know how to take care of yourself, and you would do that, etc., etc., etc.), and what if you did something really stupid, like cried like a baby or something, which I don't think you'd do, and if you did, it would be okay, and what if "you" weren't there, and if "you" weren't there anymore, but you never were there, you just thought you were, and you just made up a story about "you", and you believed that story because you liked it, and maybe you felt safe with it, and people told you "you" were okay, and what if "you" are okay without a "you" there, and what if you curled up into a ball and felt like crying/dying it hurt so bad or something, and what if you knew you could be okay without a "you", and, in fact, there isn't any "you" now, and you're okay. What if "things don't need a "me" to work/happen" doesn't just apply to going to bed and going to sleep, but is true all of the time? And what if everything you've told yourself about a "you" isn't true and has never been true? What if "you" is just a story you latched on to? What if you disappointed all of the people who know "you", by letting go of "you"--there really is no "you", it's just a story, and you have to see through that which may be hard, but what if you did disappoint those people? Who's to say whether or not they would be disappointed, and anyway, who cares? What if the "you" doesn't want to see a no "you", so it keeps fighting Neeel and Vince and all those other people you've read about who say there's no "you"? What if Vince doesn't give a flying frick about "you"? What if he just wants to help you see the no "you", and he wouldn't care if you did something really stupid like cried like a baby or something?

What if it's really scary? Then what? Scared of what? There's no "you" to be scared of anything.

why it doesn't want it

Because "I" would have to cease to exist, but, according to Vince, Neeel and others, "I" never did exist!

Okay, I don't want it if it's hard. Talk about fricking hard, you're on page 15 of a long rant/decent to no "self", etc. You've spent tons of time looking for it, trying to get it, wanting to get it, etc., and if that's not hard, then what is? How hard can it be to make a fool of yourself (like crying like a baby, which may not happen at all, you have no idea what, if anything, will happen and you've decided you don't want it if it's hard? How in the heck can you know if it's hard, if you've never done it? Maybe it's really smooth and easy. Maybe there's nothing to it. Maybe your whole world will fall apart, and it will be horrible. Who's to say, and big fricking deal! You've dealt with hard in your life. You'll deal with this.

All along, you've said you want it, and now you say you don't want it if it's hard. Well, make up your fricking mind!!! Note to Vince: I do want it. I just don't want it to be hard!
I want the Gold Medal! I just don't want to have to do all the work to get it! You can't have it both ways, so get over it!

Enough ranting. Thanks for listening!

[vinceschubert]

...when ?
Like yesterday!

Sorry, you can only have it NOW. :-)

I don't want it if it's hard.

i'll come back to this below...

"I" don't want to lose control.

The 'you' never had control, but there was probably a lot of satisfaction in imagining that it did. (also a lot of suffering every time "you" lost control)

I might fail

Failure (& success) are impossible. A/ because there is no I to fail or succeed, & B/ because this is not an achievement. (although in an I story is is depicted as such) How is discovery or recognition an achievement ?

and Vince wouldn't like me

Do you imagine that i like or dislike my big toe or the fingernail on my left thumb ? Most opinions were left at the gate. But that's not what you were saying. Your were saying that in the Rose story, approval is important, or likeability. Even those who 'know' you, actually only know their own story about you. YOU don't know you, so how could anybody else ?

it's like shedding your skin,

No, it's not like shedding your skin. It might be more like always believing you had a hat on, only to discover one day that you never did. It was just a sensation that you interpreted as hat like.

in your next incarnation

It's not the next one, it's this one.

so you don't know if it's safe

The unknown can be scary, depending on what story is being told. It can also be exciting or boring. But, but Rose, it's not unknown. You live it every day.

and what if you did something really stupid, like cried like a baby or something,

i cry frequently. More from joy than sadness these days. Am i stupid ?

it keeps fighting Neeel and Vince and all those other people you've read about who say there's no "you"?

i'm not fighting, i'm dancing, a wonder-full dance. Thank you Rose.

What if he just wants

There's no 'want'. There is just compassion for what (who) is in front of me. If you came across a woman in the park who was in labor, would you want to help ? Only a story could stop you.
Scary seems to have been left at the gate too.

"I" would have to cease to exist,

No, no, no. How can something that never existed, cease to exist ?
The story of Rose (that you believed was Rose) will continue. There just wont be identification with it any more.
Most people won't even know that you have awakened. (it's not in their story of you)

I want the Gold Medal! I just don't want to have to do all the work to get it! You can't have it both ways, so get over it!

Not only can you have it both ways, but hard work will interfere with you 'getting' it

I just don't want it to be hard!

Ok Rose, get this! It's not hard.
it's so easy that the term Cosmic Joke has been around forever. Most people cack themselves laughing when they get it because it is so simple.
It's as simple as turning around and recognising a friend standing there.

[GotIt]

Sorry, you can only have it NOW. :-)

You're no fun! ;)

How is discovery or recognition an achievement ?

What if you don't discover it or recognize it, as in failing to discover or recognize the truth of no "self"?

Do you imagine that i like or dislike my big toe or the fingernail on my left thumb ?

No, and I understand what you are trying to say.

Your were saying that in the Rose story, approval is important, or likeability.

That's correct.

It might be more like always believing you had a hat on, only to discover one day that you never did. It was just a sensation that you interpreted as hat like.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I keep wanting to take my hat off, and you keep telling me there's no hat there to take off!

The unknown can be scary, depending on what story is being told. It can also be exciting or boring. But, but Rose, it's not unknown. You live it every day.

Okay, but what's it like after I realize I have no hat on, and why am I afraid of seeing that I'm not wearing a hat?

Am i stupid ?

No, actually, I think you're very nice. I don't know you, so there is a chance you could be stupid, but you wouldn't be stupid from crying!

If you came across a woman in the park who was in labor, would you want to help ?

Yes, I'd want to help.

How can something that never existed, cease to exist ?
The story of Rose (that you believed was Rose) will continue. There just wont be identification with it any more.

Something that never existed can't cease to exist, but my attachment to the story of "me/Rose" will cease to exist or something.

Not only can you have it both ways, but hard work will interfere with you 'getting' it

Okay, I'm going to try to relax more.

Ok Rose, get this! It's not hard.
it's so easy that the term Cosmic Joke has been around forever. Most people cack themselves laughing when they get it because it is so simple.
It's as simple as turning around and recognising a friend standing there.

I've read about the laughing a lot! I want to say I want to laugh, I want to be at the laughing point, I want to see, etc., but, as you might say, that's wanting for something that's already here.