It’s already present

[Rega]

Yes, the “it’s not it” thought is just also being. It is accompanied with a me feeling before it, actually. Like the thought arises because of a feeling less vast. So the feeling is spontaneous nature.

As you asked - let’s work with it now. Freshly. A thought here says that all of this is understood with the mind. This thought is also spontaneous nature. This too is another thought. When thoughts are trying to eradicate thoughts (self chasing self) it feels endless.

So I turn elsewhere.
(Silence. A feeling of no grasp. A weird feeling that life just runs in me… mainly leaves in the wind - not as a distraction, as the experience with most true nature).

Do I control a thought?
Well. No. It’s spontaneous here. It is. It just formulates and disappears. No trace of it even while thinking. Who thought that? It just is.

Do I control attention?
Attention itself feels like the sensation that is most present. Or most noticeable. It feels like it originated in choice, when looking closely. But the quality itself is more like movement through life maybe. Just, when I drop the image of a witness behind it all. Attention too fades…

Do I control choice?
That’s an important one. Because it seems to be the one “standing behind” though and attention.
Can choice just be naturally present. Without a chooser. Even here investigating choice is going back to thought. So I’m in a loop.

I’ll try to answer the other ones later. I am now lost completely or exhausted. (I don’t know how it is perceived here, but it doesn’t feel like avoidance now, just like exhaustion).

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[Elad]

Do I control attention?
Attention itself feels like the sensation that is most present. Or most noticeable. It feels like it originated in choice, when looking closely. But the quality itself is more like movement through life maybe. Just, when I drop the image of a witness behind it all. Attention too fades…

Look at it more. Just sit still pay attention to the way attention shifts. For example focus it on the breath and see how it shifts. Or just let it be and see how it moves. Do you in any way control it?

Do I control choice?
That’s an important one. Because it seems to be the one “standing behind” though and attention.
Can choice just be naturally present. Without a chooser. Even here investigating choice is going back to thought. So I’m in a loop.

Look at it in very concrete ways. Give yourself choices (mango or coconut, swim or walk, meditate on breath or inquiry into what is taken to be me - etc etc etc) and LOOK: What is actually making the choice, how is it made? What are you taking to be you and does it control that? If yes, in what ways exactly?

I’ll try to answer the other ones later. I am now lost completely or exhausted. (I don’t know how it is perceived here, but it doesn’t feel like avoidance now, just like exhaustion).

Follow your intuition with moving between rest and inquiry (where does the intuition come from).

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

🤍

[Rega]

Hey sorry for the late answer - the site didn’t work before

‏Choice:

‏Ok. So looking deeply. Just before making a choice, there is a very quick mind image coming (sometimes visual - image of mango and coconut, sometimes of other senses, and sometimes of the feeling it would be like to swim or walk). And then within this mind image, something that is felt in the lower stomach says “this”, like it lights up with the correct answer - choice. This voice could be due to reason, or due to preferring a feeling of comfort or ease imagined it this option. But this process is not made directly but is assumed now. The direct process is just the knowing of the correct choice. And then, movement happens, and the choice that was imagined, is now reality. And is somewhat similar to what was imagined.

‏So, mainly the two things that feel like me in this process is - the feeling of knowing what’s right - “for me”. And the action that is taken to do it - “I control the movement”.
‏The first part, the image that rise as to imagine the experience, is less connected to “me” (maybe because of work done?)
‏So - the feeling of knowing what’s right, it is just a feeling in the belly, or a knowing very quick and elusive, this is its nature. But I see how the I assumed in it is a thought added to this nature.
‏And the movement, the acting on choice. The thing that is assumed to be self here is the ability to stop the acting (which is another choice, back to the top). And the ownership on the body (spirit chose to move matter). I can stop it is a thought. I own the body is a belief. Let’s look at them like this.

‏But the movement still feels like ownership. Like self. But in direct experience I don’t find it, it feels like a mystery. It is faster and elusive, just like the knowing of what choice to make.

‏So, all those moments that are assumed as self, are apparently more fast and elusive than self, less understandable, but are very familiar.

‏This is just how they are right. They don’t mean anything else. Or imply anything else. It feels so hard to understand them because they are just as they are.

‏Ok. This is interesting. Fast and elusive and familiarity are all qualities of the phenomena. Qualities given by the mind. The phenomena are also known. With simplicity. With silence. Action and movement is known. And then no questions need to be asked. This is the place to rest in.

‏I’m gonna do attention later in my notebook, let you know if anything comes up. Maybe I need again for questions to be more narrow so I can go deeper.

‏Shabbat shalom!💌🕊️

[Elad]

Hi :)

Can you look to keep it even more simple?

1) When seeing, is there a seer and seeing? Or just seeing and the thought of seer added habitually?

2) Is the seeing inside or outside? Or is inside/outside added in thought?

3) When choice happens, is there a you that does it or it just happens and the thought that it is you is added habitually?

4) Can you find an exact location where the choice comes from? Or only thoughts and sensations and movements happening?


If you haven't yet read the book Gateless Gatecrashers I think now could be a good time. If you don't have it with you, here it is electronically for free:

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/wp- ... ashers.pdf

[Rega]

1 ) When seeing, is there a seer and seeing? Or just seeing and the thought of seer added habitually?

Just seeing. Now it feels like just the image exists. Not seeing even (as an imagination of an action). Just seeing.

2) Is the seeing inside or outside? Or is inside/outside added in thought?

Now it’s nothing. I don’t find the question even to be honest. If I look at what is familiar then maybe it’s inside? As to imagine a soul that is seeing. But. But no.
Seeing is flat. It is just it.

3) When choice happens, is there a you that does it or it just happens and the thought that it is you is added habitually?

Choice. It is just part of the flow. Part of the mystery of life. I feel like there is nothing to inquire in it. That’s it is all just useless add on, that crumble. Choice is occurring. Action is occurring.

4) Can you find an exact location where the choice comes from? Or only thoughts and sensations and movements happening?

B. I can talk about it and give words to it like it came from the head or heart and it can be useful to some degree but it’s really nothing. It’s really just happening.

I am Lost. I freshly meet this body and facial expressions with no image of them, of me. It’s new. It is no one. Experience. Experience.

A thought about “what’s left to do, or am I certain now” appears. I don’t know what to do with it here. It is too vast for it. I can’t feel like this is everything. Mainly because I felt this expansion before and it didn’t feel like 100% certainty after.,

But no before. But the past doesn’t exist. But the thought of something not here possible is strange. It is habitual but it is not true. And also not not true. Just being.

🍃

[Elad]

"I am Lost"

or

"I" is lost?

What does "I" and "Zoie" refer to?

But no before. But the past doesn’t exist. But the thought of something not here possible is strange. It is habitual but it is not true. And also not not true. Just being.

🍃

🌻

[Rega]

I don’t know what could be lost.

Just the way the mouth moves, seeing it, as it’s not mine. As it’s just happening. This feels like I is lost. Maybe because I’m used to knowing it there - imagining how people see me?

Zoie is really nothing. But it makes me feel the energy of my family which makes me feel love and sadness. That’s all to it. Love and sadness. Grief? Maybe.

I is…. Referring to. It’s a mess. It’s a mess of thoughts and emotions so complicated you cannot trace it back. But then surrendering. But then this flow. And it looses importance.

Still is exhausting you know. Why is that.

[Elad]

Beautiful.

Grief can come when the simulation is seen for what it is. Love stays. Allow grief to come and go.



When exhaustion is there, be curious about it. What is this exhaustion? What is it really in direct experience?



I think this video might be enjoyable for you now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb7cZazcdEo

There might be parts that don't quite make sense, each process is unique. If so, don't focus on that, but on what resonates.



How was the belief in separate self created?

[Rega]

Exhaustion.

As it feels right now. Is being tired, the body wants to rest and drop, not do a thing. In the eyes too. It sends me to this place of being not conscious… being on social media or thinking. It’s trying to shut off in a way.

I will say that crying is still happening daily. Like, almost every 10 minutes meditation or writing here. I’m really letting the process through, but this is part of the exhaustion. The drainage.

Today I find frustration and tiredness (regarding studying), not directly related to the process. Something still feels flat in the experience, in a good way. Like, there is no place else to be in. Like the body and sensations are freshly met because they are not known to be someone. But I’m contracted (and trying to except and investigate this place too)

[Elad]

Is tiredness acceptable, natural? What does the tiredness want?

And when being on social media, scrolling, etc. - what is being avoided? What would feel fulfilling in a "good way"?

And when the crying is there, is there any resistance to it?

Is there anything that can be embraced more?

Love from here

[Rega]

Ok so as for the crying - zero resistance really.

As for tiredness, it wants to stop trying. It wants to let go fully, but it sometimes goes in bad directions (giving control over to social media or whatever). But it feels like a combination of post-overwhelming feeling, but also a pointer to seeing that there is still an illusion of effort to be made in order to see.

The most important question here is what is being avoided. I feel maybe it’s the directness of experience, or just the feelings that rise with it. For instance now, I’m resting in a space that we aim to. Tears are coming, emotional movement is in the body. It barely has a name but it’s big. And there is something comforting in shutting it all off. It’s not being avoided so much but still, something is avoided. Maybe even tiredness itself is avoided.

Something with it is not completely clear yet.

[Elad]

Zoie :)

Ok so as for the crying - zero resistance really.

🌺

As for tiredness, it wants to stop trying. It wants to let go fully, but it sometimes goes in bad directions (giving control over to social media or whatever).

Practice honoring it, see what happens, let me know.

But it feels like a combination of post-overwhelming feeling, but also a pointer to seeing that there is still an illusion of effort to be made in order to see.

Look for "the sense of effort", can you find it in direct experience?

If you find it, look at it. Does it have anything more to do with a controlling self then relaxation does?

The most important question here is what is being avoided.I feel maybe it’s the directness of experience, or just the feelings that rise with it.

When you are intuitively called to this question, stay with it. And dont stop with "maybe answers". Let them come, go, do whatever they do. Mainly return to the question until a deeper shift or experiencing the answer happens.

For instance now, I’m resting in a space that we aim to. Tears are coming, emotional movement is in the body. It barely has a name but it’s big. And there is something comforting in shutting it all off. It’s not being avoided so much but still, something is avoided. Maybe even tiredness itself is avoided.

Keep looking/feeling beyond "maybe".

Something with it is not completely clear yet.

= keep looking, feeling

[Rega]

Sense of effort. It’s an idea, it’s the thought trying to catch something. It feels like reaching towards which is out of reach, meaning, not here, meaning not existing. It does not indicate a self. It does not indicate a stressed self, which is different than a relaxed one. It is just a complex thought about reaching to somewhere, but, it doesn’t indicate anything. With this, anxiety rise (feels to be thinner than fear, and more active). The feeling too indicated nothing of its own.

As for what is being avoided. Well, I set here for a while. Moving from thoughts to avoidance patterns (other thoughts or actions) and just watched it all. The important part is just this weird feeling, always present, that, just flattens everything, just makes the body seem to be part of everything, that there is no inside and outside.

[Elad]

Sense of effort. It’s an idea,

Right

it’s the thought trying to catch something

Can a thought try to do anything?

Can you see you shift from pure description to imagination land in saying that?

It feels like reaching towards which is out of reach, meaning, not here, meaning not existing. It does not indicate a self. It does not indicate a stressed self, which is different than a relaxed one.

Can you see this indicates that self exist, not only that, two types of self. Can you see this is mental fabrication?

It is just a complex thought about reaching to somewhere, but, it doesn’t indicate anything. With this, anxiety rise (feels to be thinner than fear, and more active). The feeling too indicated nothing of its own.

On a shadow work level you can give kind interest to/hanging out with that anxiety, just feel it deeply and see/feel what is/transpires.

As for what is being avoided. Well, I set here for a while. Moving from thoughts to avoidance patterns (other thoughts or actions) and just watched it all. The important part is just this weird feeling, always present, that, just flattens everything, just makes the body seem to be part of everything, that there is no inside and outside.

Spend much time with this "weird feeling"


What is it - what is this?

Remember any mind answer doesn't matter here.

[Rega]

Can a thought try to do anything? Can you see you shift from pure description to imagination land in saying that?

Ok yes i see it. so effort is just and idea, a thought. and there is nothing more to it, basically. The thought creates this complex structure, but actually it crumbles now, looking at it from the perspective of the exprience. It's not looking even, at nothing, just expriencing the thought as another phenomenon. meaning, it is all that exist, no dual expriencer.

Can you see this indicates that self exist, not only that, two types of self. Can you see this is mental fabrication?

Yes, it's nothing. It's so much simpler. I am inventing it all. Nothing more to say - Just feeling my heart beat.


Spend much time with this "weird feeling". What is it - what is this?

Yes, I am here. It is, this is, the feeling that there is nothing to hold. That life just seem to happen. So much stress is rising with it. And avoidance in the form of loosing attention (what is lost? when attention is moving? So the stream of thought is justpresent, and then thinking of past and future or whatever, and in what way is that different from being present here? I am not sure that it's different, because there is no I involved in the thoughts or in the presence. So it is all the same substance)
The weird feeling is the freshness combined with familiarity. this is the weird. everything is not new and new. the freshness is the feeling of no ownership of every cell of the body, and then just honoring their existence. who is honoring? that's a thought. It is refering to thw quality of stillness and awe, like looking at nature. This is all nature.

I am trying to avoid any mind answer, any verbal answer. and to know the quality of real truth and not the words the pretend to be truth. which are also true as form. not as content.

Thank you, Shabbat shalom.