The Gate

Hey noobstorm,

13 pages? That usually means someone is trying to solve this like a logic problem, or has spun into thinking.

So let's back up to the beginning, ok?


"I believe the human is having this experience."


Let's look at that single idea because it holds the key to this. The realization is to be found in a single letter at the start....

An exercise:

Please point to the referent for the "I" in that sentence. Where is it?

Thanks!

I can't accept that the human and experience are not separate.

Ali, when you say that you "can't accept...", is this a belief ? (you take it on faith) have you arrived at it logically ? (you believe your thoughts ?) or it is Experiencing the non-separation ?

I am believing my thoughts. Non-separation is happening now as it is I think but thoughts seem to create a distorted view of reality. I try to see this but I can't.

Hey noobstorm,

13 pages? That usually means someone is trying to solve this like a logic problem, or has spun into thinking.

So let's back up to the beginning, ok?


"I believe the human is having this experience."


Let's look at that single idea because it holds the key to this. The realization is to be found in a single letter at the start....

An exercise:

Please point to the referent for the "I" in that sentence. Where is it?

Thanks!

The only conclusion that I can come up with is that it is the human that it is pointing to and the human is thinking,

Perfect reply. Yes. It is the human.

So where is the "I" in that? Point to the "I", the self that is not the body and brain, the biological system. Can you show it to me?

Perfect reply. Yes. It is the human.

So where is the "I" in that? Point to the "I", the self that is not the body and brain, the biological system. Can you show it to me?

I is not a real thing.

Please explain.

Please explain.

It is not real but what it points to(the human) is real.

Is it one label pointing to another label ?
Ali, define "human"

Is it one label pointing to another label ?

No it is pointing to something that is being directly experienced.

Ali, define "human"

A person. Point at yourself, that is what an individual "human" or "I" is.

A person. Point at yourself, that is what an individual "human" or "I" is.

It is certainly possible to point at a body, but where is the human or I in that?
I would contend that human is a label to differentiate from animal or neanderthal. Human is an english word for (the greek?) Homo Sapien. We are all human (the same) yet each is unique (the personal)
You still haven't shown any evidence of an I.
You accept that it is a label, but you cling to that as a basis for operating from.
You say life-ing arises from an I, when quite clearly (here) the I is a symptom of misguided thoughts and life-ing arises from something much more fundamental and mysterious.
It is also clear (here) that All problems, both personal and global, start from an I.

It is not real but what it points to(the human) is real.

If you said that the I is real, you would get agreement here, with the clarification that it is a real story, and that what flows from that is real emotion, and what flows from that is real behaviour...
If you think the coil of rope is a snake, the physical/emotional reaction to is is real, even though it started as an illusion.

A person. Point at yourself, that is what an individual "human" or "I" is.

It is certainly possible to point at a body, but where is the human or I in that?

I is expressing who these thoughts feelings etc. belong to & where they are coming from which is this body and mind and I believe this is the basis for operating from.

I is expressing who these thoughts feelings etc belong to

So I is the express-er ?
If words (thoughts) are the medium of expression ?, then are you saying that the I is the origin of thoughts. Where thoughts come from ?

I is expressing who these thoughts feelings etc belong to

So I is the express-er ?

No.

If words (thoughts) are the medium of expression ?, then are you saying that the I is the origin of thoughts. Where thoughts come from ?

Thoughts don't come from I they come from the brain.

I'm just saying whatever I think may be holding me back..

I'm just saying whatever I think may be holding me back..

Ok. Good. It is getting harder and harder for you to enunciate that "whatever is holding you back" isn't it ?
Do you understand that thoughts that are accepted by other thoughts as true, because they align with previous thoughts that were seen as true, are then stored unconsciously, and therefore not questioned again. These are the ones with which identification occurs and are the ones that are seen by other thoughts as an I ?

I'm just saying whatever I think may be holding me back..

Ok. Good. It is getting harder and harder for you to enunciate that "whatever is holding you back" isn't it ?

Maybe.

Do you understand that thoughts that are accepted by other thoughts as true, because they align with previous thoughts that were seen as true, are then stored unconsciously, and therefore not questioned again. These are the ones with which identification occurs and are the ones that are seen by other thoughts as an I ?

I suppose so if I understand what you're saying.