Wrote this to a client who is just on the verge, and thought it might be helpful for you as well:
We have all the time you want, no hurry 🤍 The way it seems here it's always possible to doubt when attention is lost in the content of thoughts and feelings, kinda like you can have all kinds of dreams at night. The point is to get very clear that every time you pay full attention to what is real now, rather then being lost in the contents of thoughts and feelings, it's seen that the self and all its concerns, is just a mental activity, like a dream, without any real self without independent free will in it. Please check this many times . Worry to lose awakening is inherently a state of being lost in identification with thought content. No guarantee it won't happen for me or you, in fact it's very normal it does, our work here is not to guarantee against it, but that you gain very clear direct experience that in the same moment when you are NOT lost in the content of thoughts and feelings, but rather are attentive and letting everything be, you see that whatever content was believed was only like a dream in thought, without independent free will or an independent separate self.
Hello!-JoshO
Re: Hello!-JoshO
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
As has become my practice, I will copy and paste your most recent guidance to me here below so as to have it directly before me as I do the work of today. In response to what I wrote yesterday, you wrote back (at first):
“This is ok.
Selfing often takes the worst from all worlds: the insecure poverty mentality attitude from "not-knowing" and the arrogant controlling assuming you in the end know where you or life is at, i.e. "not enough, not there" from "knowing". Instead of the best from both worlds: the humbleness and curiosity from "not-knowing" and the intimate direct felt sense of "this" from "knowing".
Start again.”
Most of the day, that was the guidance that was turning over and cooking inside here as what I had “in mind” would be my "springboard" into this evening. But then you added a bit more guidance later in the day — quite an addition, I must say — as follows:
“Wrote this to a client who is just on the verge, and thought it might be helpful for you as well:
We have all the time you want, no hurry 🤍 The way it seems here it's always possible to doubt when attention is lost in the content of thoughts and feelings, kinda like you can have all kinds of dreams at night. The point is to get very clear that every time you pay full attention to what is real now, rather then being lost in the contents of thoughts and feelings, it's seen that the self and all its concerns is just a mental activity, like a dream, without any real self without independent free will in it. Please check this many times. Worry to lose [the fear of losing] awakening is inherently a state of being lost in identification with thought content. No guarantee it won't happen for me or you, in fact it's very normal it does, our work here is not to guarantee against it, but that you gain very clear direct experience that in the same moment when you are NOT lost in the content of thoughts and feelings, but rather are attentive and letting everything be, you see that whatever content was believed was only like a dream in thought, without independent free will or an independent separate self.”
The desire to absorb what is contained in that last paragraph, and really internalize it, arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it is a desire.
Thoughts of, or at least remembering the fact of, fairly significant conflict between me and all three of the females with whom I live just before I sat down here, nip at me a little bit even as I try to let go of all that and be present with what is here/now. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
Feelings of tingling in the forearms and hands and forehead are palpable as I sit here speaking to you. Are those feelings this self? No, they are feelings.
The desire to go back and re-read what you sent me is palpable here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to pause and breathe has been here for a few moments. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Restriction-feelings that linger from my earlier interactions with my wife and daughters are felt in the body, even now, in my forehead and in my forearms. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
Thoughts of telling them to fuck off are coursing around my brain, entirely outside of what “I” have had planned for this moment. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
What does love want here? The words/thoughts “to be loved” suggest themselves in the space of here/now. Are those words/thoughts the self? No, they are words/thoughts.
Feelings of sadness and loneliness and frustation “say” that they are here now, but there’s anger too and, strangely, it’s not clear what all the feelings are that are really here. But are any of those feelings the self? No, they are a mixed mash of hot and various feelings.
The desire to take a deep breath and maybe step back for a moment arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
A strong feeling of “some idea of what is right behavior and what is wrong behavior” stands here with me, almost insisting on my enforcing it on others. Is that feeling the self? No, it is a strong feeling almost calling for “me” to enforce it in this house.
The desire and the need to take a deep breath arises here. Are that desire and that need the self? No, they are a desire and a need-feeling.
What does love want here? The words, “Not to be at war” speak themselves inside here. Are those words the self? No, but they are words and pointers.
An achiness in the abdomen and stomach are palpable here, almost a queasiness. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
A wondering at what is happening here arises in the midst of living. Is that wondering the self? No, it is a feeling of wondering.
Not-knowing what this all is is felt here. Is that not-knowing the self? No, it’s a sensation of not knowing much of anything presently.
Feelings of searching and then slightly, and then a bit more than slightly, of yearning arise here. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
The memory of your having said that that other client to whom you wrote was “just on the verge” arises here, along with the desire to know where the hell I am, where you might say I am, arises here. Is that memory or is that desire the self? No, they are a memory and a desire.
A little bit of relief is felt passing by as I read your words “we have all the time you want, no hurry”, even as thought wonders if they apply to me as well. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are agitated, busy, slightly volatile thoughts.
The desire to get it, to see, to see through, arises here. Are those desires the self? No, they are quiet but intense desires.
A smile emerges on my face in the midst of all this, smiling at something I don’t know how to name presently. Is that smile, and the reason it arose, the self? A thought says, “I don’t really know! Maybe that was the self” in the space of now -- or a second ago. Was that smile, or that thought, the self? No, but thought keeps wondering about the impetus for the smile. “What was it that made the smile happen?” it asks. Is that questioning thought the self? No, it’s a questioning thought.
A feeling of dissatisfaction with that previous unclarity pokes through here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
A sense of confusion and of needing to slow down a moment and breathe arises here. Are those senses or sensations or feelings the self? No, they are senses, or sensations or feelings.
The thought “this shit just doesn’t end, does it?” arises here. Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
A feeling of almost not being able to keep up, of getting tired, arises here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a thought.
Thoughts of my older daughter and her behavior toward me earlier this evening arise in memory. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
The desire to proceed wisely here arises, in competition with another very angry feeling which is calling for a kind of stridency that "I" want and also do not want to act out in my household. Are those desires and feelings the self? No, they are a desire and a feeling, running counter to each other (perhaps), or at least arising very near each other.
A feeling of tiredness arises here, as something now notices it has tended to do each time "I" give myself intensely to speaking to you entirely from within the game, Elad. Is that feeling of tiredness the self? No, it’s a feeling.
Thoughts of closing tonight’s communication to you sometime soon arise here/now. Are such thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
Slight intimations of what you were pointing out in Part 2 of what you last shared with me echo here, not very clearly but clearly enough to recognize them from that last piece of guidance, bits about “noticing lostness in the contents of thoughts and feelings” and noticing the dreamlike quality of all these arisings. Are those intimations of memory the self? No, they themselves are thoughts and memories (helpful though they may be).
The desire to say “Don’t worry, I don’t get it yet” arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Laughter arises here in the midst of all this seriousness. Is that laughter the self? A voice somewhere wants to say, “maybe Laughter is the Self!” Is that laughter or is that voice the self? Thought arises that wants to say “I don’t know what they are!” Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
A feeling of running after all this and not quite keeping up is felt here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The need and desire almost to breathe deeply, as if I’ve been running after something, arises here. Is that need or that desire the self? No, they are feelings.
The desire to say, “Something feels like it’s cooking, Elad” arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
More laughter arises here. is that Laughter the self? The desire to say “Maybe it is, dammit!” arises strongly. Is that desire the self? No, it is a desire.
The feeling of having come close to falling out of the game, of running off the rails, is felt here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The need to stretch and maybe get out of this chair and move around a little bit is felt. Is that need or that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling of a need.
The desire to lasso what feels a little bit like a runaway train arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
A feeling of exhaustion arises through chuckling here/now. Is that feeling of exhaustion the self? Is that urge to laugh the self? No, they are a feeling and an urge.
The feeling of almost-desperation to be rid of this session arises here! Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
More need for deep breathing arises here. Is that need the self? No, it’s a needing-feeling.
The image of cops coming in to close down a noisy party arises in the imagination. Is that image the self? No, it’s an image in the imagination.
The desire to politely beg your pardon for pausing this now arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
OK, the desire to stop is felt here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The need to keep breathing even as the pause is allowed to happen is felt here. Is that need the self? No, it’s a felt need.
Phew.
Thank you Elad.
Stopping now.
Thank you again.
More please.
I look forward to hearing from you and to continuing the work soon.
Best wishes and sincere thanks from
Joshua
As has become my practice, I will copy and paste your most recent guidance to me here below so as to have it directly before me as I do the work of today. In response to what I wrote yesterday, you wrote back (at first):
“This is ok.
Selfing often takes the worst from all worlds: the insecure poverty mentality attitude from "not-knowing" and the arrogant controlling assuming you in the end know where you or life is at, i.e. "not enough, not there" from "knowing". Instead of the best from both worlds: the humbleness and curiosity from "not-knowing" and the intimate direct felt sense of "this" from "knowing".
Start again.”
Most of the day, that was the guidance that was turning over and cooking inside here as what I had “in mind” would be my "springboard" into this evening. But then you added a bit more guidance later in the day — quite an addition, I must say — as follows:
“Wrote this to a client who is just on the verge, and thought it might be helpful for you as well:
We have all the time you want, no hurry 🤍 The way it seems here it's always possible to doubt when attention is lost in the content of thoughts and feelings, kinda like you can have all kinds of dreams at night. The point is to get very clear that every time you pay full attention to what is real now, rather then being lost in the contents of thoughts and feelings, it's seen that the self and all its concerns is just a mental activity, like a dream, without any real self without independent free will in it. Please check this many times. Worry to lose [the fear of losing] awakening is inherently a state of being lost in identification with thought content. No guarantee it won't happen for me or you, in fact it's very normal it does, our work here is not to guarantee against it, but that you gain very clear direct experience that in the same moment when you are NOT lost in the content of thoughts and feelings, but rather are attentive and letting everything be, you see that whatever content was believed was only like a dream in thought, without independent free will or an independent separate self.”
The desire to absorb what is contained in that last paragraph, and really internalize it, arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it is a desire.
Thoughts of, or at least remembering the fact of, fairly significant conflict between me and all three of the females with whom I live just before I sat down here, nip at me a little bit even as I try to let go of all that and be present with what is here/now. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
Feelings of tingling in the forearms and hands and forehead are palpable as I sit here speaking to you. Are those feelings this self? No, they are feelings.
The desire to go back and re-read what you sent me is palpable here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to pause and breathe has been here for a few moments. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Restriction-feelings that linger from my earlier interactions with my wife and daughters are felt in the body, even now, in my forehead and in my forearms. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
Thoughts of telling them to fuck off are coursing around my brain, entirely outside of what “I” have had planned for this moment. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
What does love want here? The words/thoughts “to be loved” suggest themselves in the space of here/now. Are those words/thoughts the self? No, they are words/thoughts.
Feelings of sadness and loneliness and frustation “say” that they are here now, but there’s anger too and, strangely, it’s not clear what all the feelings are that are really here. But are any of those feelings the self? No, they are a mixed mash of hot and various feelings.
The desire to take a deep breath and maybe step back for a moment arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
A strong feeling of “some idea of what is right behavior and what is wrong behavior” stands here with me, almost insisting on my enforcing it on others. Is that feeling the self? No, it is a strong feeling almost calling for “me” to enforce it in this house.
The desire and the need to take a deep breath arises here. Are that desire and that need the self? No, they are a desire and a need-feeling.
What does love want here? The words, “Not to be at war” speak themselves inside here. Are those words the self? No, but they are words and pointers.
An achiness in the abdomen and stomach are palpable here, almost a queasiness. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
A wondering at what is happening here arises in the midst of living. Is that wondering the self? No, it is a feeling of wondering.
Not-knowing what this all is is felt here. Is that not-knowing the self? No, it’s a sensation of not knowing much of anything presently.
Feelings of searching and then slightly, and then a bit more than slightly, of yearning arise here. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
The memory of your having said that that other client to whom you wrote was “just on the verge” arises here, along with the desire to know where the hell I am, where you might say I am, arises here. Is that memory or is that desire the self? No, they are a memory and a desire.
A little bit of relief is felt passing by as I read your words “we have all the time you want, no hurry”, even as thought wonders if they apply to me as well. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are agitated, busy, slightly volatile thoughts.
The desire to get it, to see, to see through, arises here. Are those desires the self? No, they are quiet but intense desires.
A smile emerges on my face in the midst of all this, smiling at something I don’t know how to name presently. Is that smile, and the reason it arose, the self? A thought says, “I don’t really know! Maybe that was the self” in the space of now -- or a second ago. Was that smile, or that thought, the self? No, but thought keeps wondering about the impetus for the smile. “What was it that made the smile happen?” it asks. Is that questioning thought the self? No, it’s a questioning thought.
A feeling of dissatisfaction with that previous unclarity pokes through here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
A sense of confusion and of needing to slow down a moment and breathe arises here. Are those senses or sensations or feelings the self? No, they are senses, or sensations or feelings.
The thought “this shit just doesn’t end, does it?” arises here. Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
A feeling of almost not being able to keep up, of getting tired, arises here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a thought.
Thoughts of my older daughter and her behavior toward me earlier this evening arise in memory. Are those thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
The desire to proceed wisely here arises, in competition with another very angry feeling which is calling for a kind of stridency that "I" want and also do not want to act out in my household. Are those desires and feelings the self? No, they are a desire and a feeling, running counter to each other (perhaps), or at least arising very near each other.
A feeling of tiredness arises here, as something now notices it has tended to do each time "I" give myself intensely to speaking to you entirely from within the game, Elad. Is that feeling of tiredness the self? No, it’s a feeling.
Thoughts of closing tonight’s communication to you sometime soon arise here/now. Are such thoughts the self? No, they are thoughts.
Slight intimations of what you were pointing out in Part 2 of what you last shared with me echo here, not very clearly but clearly enough to recognize them from that last piece of guidance, bits about “noticing lostness in the contents of thoughts and feelings” and noticing the dreamlike quality of all these arisings. Are those intimations of memory the self? No, they themselves are thoughts and memories (helpful though they may be).
The desire to say “Don’t worry, I don’t get it yet” arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Laughter arises here in the midst of all this seriousness. Is that laughter the self? A voice somewhere wants to say, “maybe Laughter is the Self!” Is that laughter or is that voice the self? Thought arises that wants to say “I don’t know what they are!” Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
A feeling of running after all this and not quite keeping up is felt here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The need and desire almost to breathe deeply, as if I’ve been running after something, arises here. Is that need or that desire the self? No, they are feelings.
The desire to say, “Something feels like it’s cooking, Elad” arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
More laughter arises here. is that Laughter the self? The desire to say “Maybe it is, dammit!” arises strongly. Is that desire the self? No, it is a desire.
The feeling of having come close to falling out of the game, of running off the rails, is felt here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The need to stretch and maybe get out of this chair and move around a little bit is felt. Is that need or that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling of a need.
The desire to lasso what feels a little bit like a runaway train arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
A feeling of exhaustion arises through chuckling here/now. Is that feeling of exhaustion the self? Is that urge to laugh the self? No, they are a feeling and an urge.
The feeling of almost-desperation to be rid of this session arises here! Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
More need for deep breathing arises here. Is that need the self? No, it’s a needing-feeling.
The image of cops coming in to close down a noisy party arises in the imagination. Is that image the self? No, it’s an image in the imagination.
The desire to politely beg your pardon for pausing this now arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
OK, the desire to stop is felt here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The need to keep breathing even as the pause is allowed to happen is felt here. Is that need the self? No, it’s a felt need.
Phew.
Thank you Elad.
Stopping now.
Thank you again.
More please.
I look forward to hearing from you and to continuing the work soon.
Best wishes and sincere thanks from
Joshua
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua
Yes, we have all the time you need and want here too 🌻
Do you still practice shikantaza/natural meditation/just sitting silently for 30 min each day?
Shabbat shalom
Elad
Yes, we have all the time you need and want here too 🌻
Do you still practice shikantaza/natural meditation/just sitting silently for 30 min each day?
Shabbat shalom
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
You wrote, most recently:
“Hi Joshua
Yes, we have all the time you need and want here too 🌻” (Thank you for this, BTW!}
“Do you still practice shikantaza/natural meditation/just sitting silently for 30 min each day?
Shabbat shalom
Elad”
Hello Elad -
Yes, I sit to meditate for 30 minutes every morning. It occasionally gets missed if family life intrudes, but not often, and not when I can help it. I very much prefer not to miss it. Not sure if any very specific tradition or name is fully correct for my practice — it evolved from 20 mins/2x daily Transcendental Meditation (w mantra) to 30 mins/1x daily w/o the mantra I had been given by the Transcendental Meditation folks under the influence of my most recent teacher, who is a longtime student and practitioner of Zen. He insisted quite forcefully on the importance of meditation practice, and I have come to a place in life and practice (as mentioned above) where I vastly prefer to sit in the morning than not to or to miss it for any reason.
Shabbat Shalom to you too!
Warmly
Joshua
You wrote, most recently:
“Hi Joshua
Yes, we have all the time you need and want here too 🌻” (Thank you for this, BTW!}
“Do you still practice shikantaza/natural meditation/just sitting silently for 30 min each day?
Shabbat shalom
Elad”
Hello Elad -
Yes, I sit to meditate for 30 minutes every morning. It occasionally gets missed if family life intrudes, but not often, and not when I can help it. I very much prefer not to miss it. Not sure if any very specific tradition or name is fully correct for my practice — it evolved from 20 mins/2x daily Transcendental Meditation (w mantra) to 30 mins/1x daily w/o the mantra I had been given by the Transcendental Meditation folks under the influence of my most recent teacher, who is a longtime student and practitioner of Zen. He insisted quite forcefully on the importance of meditation practice, and I have come to a place in life and practice (as mentioned above) where I vastly prefer to sit in the morning than not to or to miss it for any reason.
Shabbat Shalom to you too!
Warmly
Joshua
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Great. I have a sense it would be good if for a period you do a daily practice of sitting without doing anything, no mantra. Just sit with whatever happens in direct experience, the flow of sensations and thought. Let go of doing. Doesn't have to be instead of mantra, can decide the time between both or add time.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
decide -> divide
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
It has become quite late, and the day has gotten away from me here. Thank you again for every bit of this conversation. I will rejoin it tomorrow but for tonight am so tired that it will be better to say hello briefly just to check in and to thank you for your patience with me as I put things over till tomorrow. Talk to you soon for sure.
Best wishes from
Joshua
P.S. I did in fact divide the meditation time into 3 chunks of ten minutes each this morning: Chunk 1: sitting first with counting and then noticing the breath; Chunk 2 without doing anything, just noticing what arose in direct experience; Chunk 3 back to watching breath etc. I don't really do the mantra so much anymore. I will do it again tomorrow morning and report on what is noticed later on. Good evening - or, good morning to you.
More soon!
It has become quite late, and the day has gotten away from me here. Thank you again for every bit of this conversation. I will rejoin it tomorrow but for tonight am so tired that it will be better to say hello briefly just to check in and to thank you for your patience with me as I put things over till tomorrow. Talk to you soon for sure.
Best wishes from
Joshua
P.S. I did in fact divide the meditation time into 3 chunks of ten minutes each this morning: Chunk 1: sitting first with counting and then noticing the breath; Chunk 2 without doing anything, just noticing what arose in direct experience; Chunk 3 back to watching breath etc. I don't really do the mantra so much anymore. I will do it again tomorrow morning and report on what is noticed later on. Good evening - or, good morning to you.
More soon!
Re: Hello!-JoshO
You are welcome, with love :)Dear Elad -
It has become quite late, and the day has gotten away from me here. Thank you again for every bit of this conversation. I will rejoin it tomorrow but for tonight am so tired that it will be better to say hello briefly just to check in and to thank you for your patience with me as I put things over till tomorrow. Talk to you soon for sure.
Best wishes from
Joshua
P.S. I did in fact divide the meditation time into 3 chunks of ten minutes each this morning: Chunk 1: sitting first with counting and then noticing the breath; Chunk 2 without doing anything, just noticing what arose in direct experience; Chunk 3 back to watching breath etc. I don't really do the mantra so much anymore. I will do it again tomorrow morning and report on what is noticed later on. Good evening - or, good morning to you.
More soon!
So, what could be fun or alive for you to explore at this point?
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
Last time, you wrote:
“You are welcome, with love :)
So, what could be fun or alive for you to explore at this point?”
The intention not to write at any length to you was here as I began this note to you. Is that, or was that, intention the self? No, it was an intention.
The yearning to do everything I can to “catalyze growth” or do what can be done, without knowing what that is, can be felt here. Is that yearning the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The urge to go back and re-look at your question above was felt here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s a urge.
The question of “what would be fun or alive for me to explore at this point” is present here. A sense of bafflement about how to know or answer that question is felt here. Is that sense of bafflement the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The memory that I was dead set on putting off doing this work tonight re-arises here, along with the memory of my intention to tell you that I have come down with a cold (or some illness) and need to go to bed rather than work late into the night. Is either of those memories the self? No, they are thoughts, memories.
The urge to do this work is felt strongly here. The thought, “I want to do whatever I possibly can to get to that verge you recently mentioned another client coming close to” arises here. Is that urge, or is that thought, the self? No, neither that urge nor that thought is the self; they are an urge and a thought.
The thought, “I don’t know how to determine the best way forward here” arises here/now. Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
The words, “skillful means” appear in the mind as I sit here. Are those words the self? No, they are words/thoughts.
A feeling of urgency, of desire, or impatience, of wanting, of expectation without know what it is that is expected, all these arise here. Are these feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
Feelings of physical tiredness and a little bit of sickness, unwellness, sniffling, are noticed here. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings and sensations.
The desire to pause my writing and to ask for your patience and more of your guidance arise here. Are those desires the self? No, they are desires.
Elad, I will briefly break out of the game to address you directly and say: thank you again. I will pause now and go to bed. I don’t know with my brain how best to proceed from here. I don’t know what would be “fun or alive for me to explore at this point.”
I’m going to go in and take a little care of my elder daughter, who is having trouble falling asleep. I look forward to continuing with you soon.
Best wishes from
Joshua
Last time, you wrote:
“You are welcome, with love :)
So, what could be fun or alive for you to explore at this point?”
The intention not to write at any length to you was here as I began this note to you. Is that, or was that, intention the self? No, it was an intention.
The yearning to do everything I can to “catalyze growth” or do what can be done, without knowing what that is, can be felt here. Is that yearning the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The urge to go back and re-look at your question above was felt here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s a urge.
The question of “what would be fun or alive for me to explore at this point” is present here. A sense of bafflement about how to know or answer that question is felt here. Is that sense of bafflement the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The memory that I was dead set on putting off doing this work tonight re-arises here, along with the memory of my intention to tell you that I have come down with a cold (or some illness) and need to go to bed rather than work late into the night. Is either of those memories the self? No, they are thoughts, memories.
The urge to do this work is felt strongly here. The thought, “I want to do whatever I possibly can to get to that verge you recently mentioned another client coming close to” arises here. Is that urge, or is that thought, the self? No, neither that urge nor that thought is the self; they are an urge and a thought.
The thought, “I don’t know how to determine the best way forward here” arises here/now. Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
The words, “skillful means” appear in the mind as I sit here. Are those words the self? No, they are words/thoughts.
A feeling of urgency, of desire, or impatience, of wanting, of expectation without know what it is that is expected, all these arise here. Are these feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
Feelings of physical tiredness and a little bit of sickness, unwellness, sniffling, are noticed here. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings and sensations.
The desire to pause my writing and to ask for your patience and more of your guidance arise here. Are those desires the self? No, they are desires.
Elad, I will briefly break out of the game to address you directly and say: thank you again. I will pause now and go to bed. I don’t know with my brain how best to proceed from here. I don’t know what would be “fun or alive for me to explore at this point.”
I’m going to go in and take a little care of my elder daughter, who is having trouble falling asleep. I look forward to continuing with you soon.
Best wishes from
Joshua
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua,
Here is a collection of videos Vince (whose zoom calls I recommended) collected about doubt. Please watch them and see the reactions that come by themselves without a self. Write about your experience from within the game *in real time* as you watch. You can spread the watching over some days.
When doubt holds you back - Todd Lent interview - The Awakening Curriculum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trB0Fi6dpg0&t=3030s
The Awakening Curriculum: Doubt & The Joy - 1st Lesson, 2nd Fetter - FetterWork https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_8N331jpA4
The Awakening Curriculum: Doubt & Emotional Work - 2nd Lesson, 2nd Fetter - FetterWork https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTyUspd7c3c
Here is a collection of videos Vince (whose zoom calls I recommended) collected about doubt. Please watch them and see the reactions that come by themselves without a self. Write about your experience from within the game *in real time* as you watch. You can spread the watching over some days.
When doubt holds you back - Todd Lent interview - The Awakening Curriculum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trB0Fi6dpg0&t=3030s
The Awakening Curriculum: Doubt & The Joy - 1st Lesson, 2nd Fetter - FetterWork https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_8N331jpA4
The Awakening Curriculum: Doubt & Emotional Work - 2nd Lesson, 2nd Fetter - FetterWork https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTyUspd7c3c
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad -
For some reason I am not able to get access to the first video (“When doubt holds you back - Todd Lent interview - The Awakening Curriculum”).
So I began watching the second one, only a few seconds into it now.
The insistent urge to tell you immediately that it was only earlier this year — not long before I happened upon Luchana and Lubo talking to a online group I belong to (alumni of something called “The Finders Course”) — that I learned of and became interested in “Fetter work” and specifically of Pernille Damore’s work arises strongly here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The pull to watch a good chunk of the video suggests itself here. Is that “pull” the self? No, it’s an urge.
The urge to say, “I’ll watch a bit and circle back to here soon or soonish” arises here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
—
The references and descriptions and pointings that Pernille makes to “skeptical doubt” — and the sorts of characters that engage in it, among which she includes hers — spark a smile of recognition here/now. Is that smile of recognition the self? No, it’s an impulse and a physical reaction.
The guidance she gives…
The urge to say that there is a great deal here arises here/now. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The feeling of recognition of how Pernille addresses, names, articulates the specific ways that some humans (including “I myself”) sometimes handle the challenges of living a human life - through avoiding something scary or uncomfortable rather than being with it fully, arises strongly here. Is that feeling of recognition the self? No, it’s a feeling.
A feeling of interest and hope arises as Pernille talks about the “engineering” of “accepting when you cannot accept” (as I have also heard Eckhart Tolle talk about). Is that feeling of interest and hope the self? No, it’s a feeling of interest and hope.
—
The feeling of needing to relate to you that a pause was taken here, Elad, in which to give my doggy his last walk of the day and and to begin getting ready for bed arises here. Is that feeling of need the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The memory of recognizing something in what Pernille spoke of earlier, of the challengingness of doubt, arises here/now. Is that memory the self? No, it’s a memory/thought.
The piercing desire to feel freed or free arises here, Elad. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to ask what you think, where you think “I am” in this process, to investigate the question of “being on the verge” as you spoke of the other day, arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Feelings of tiredness and of being a bit unwell, reassert themselves here, Elad. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
The desire to close up shop for the night and head to bed arises here too, now, Elad. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a (or several related) desire(s).
Good night, Elad, and thank you again. More please.
Best wishes till soon from
Joshua
For some reason I am not able to get access to the first video (“When doubt holds you back - Todd Lent interview - The Awakening Curriculum”).
So I began watching the second one, only a few seconds into it now.
The insistent urge to tell you immediately that it was only earlier this year — not long before I happened upon Luchana and Lubo talking to a online group I belong to (alumni of something called “The Finders Course”) — that I learned of and became interested in “Fetter work” and specifically of Pernille Damore’s work arises strongly here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The pull to watch a good chunk of the video suggests itself here. Is that “pull” the self? No, it’s an urge.
The urge to say, “I’ll watch a bit and circle back to here soon or soonish” arises here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
—
The references and descriptions and pointings that Pernille makes to “skeptical doubt” — and the sorts of characters that engage in it, among which she includes hers — spark a smile of recognition here/now. Is that smile of recognition the self? No, it’s an impulse and a physical reaction.
The guidance she gives…
The urge to say that there is a great deal here arises here/now. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The feeling of recognition of how Pernille addresses, names, articulates the specific ways that some humans (including “I myself”) sometimes handle the challenges of living a human life - through avoiding something scary or uncomfortable rather than being with it fully, arises strongly here. Is that feeling of recognition the self? No, it’s a feeling.
A feeling of interest and hope arises as Pernille talks about the “engineering” of “accepting when you cannot accept” (as I have also heard Eckhart Tolle talk about). Is that feeling of interest and hope the self? No, it’s a feeling of interest and hope.
—
The feeling of needing to relate to you that a pause was taken here, Elad, in which to give my doggy his last walk of the day and and to begin getting ready for bed arises here. Is that feeling of need the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The memory of recognizing something in what Pernille spoke of earlier, of the challengingness of doubt, arises here/now. Is that memory the self? No, it’s a memory/thought.
The piercing desire to feel freed or free arises here, Elad. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to ask what you think, where you think “I am” in this process, to investigate the question of “being on the verge” as you spoke of the other day, arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Feelings of tiredness and of being a bit unwell, reassert themselves here, Elad. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
The desire to close up shop for the night and head to bed arises here too, now, Elad. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a (or several related) desire(s).
Good night, Elad, and thank you again. More please.
Best wishes till soon from
Joshua
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad -
For some reason I am not able to get access to the first video (“When doubt holds you back - Todd Lent interview - The Awakening Curriculum”).
So I began watching the second one, only a few seconds into it now.
The insistent urge to tell you immediately that it was only earlier this year — not long before I happened upon Luchana and Lubo talking to a online group I belong to (alumni of something called “The Finders Course”) — that I learned of and became interested in “Fetter work” and specifically of Pernille Damore’s work arises strongly here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The pull to watch a good chunk of the video suggests itself here. Is that “pull” the self? No, it’s an urge.
The urge to say, “I’ll watch a bit and circle back to here soon or soonish” arises here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
—
The references and descriptions and pointings that Pernille makes to “skeptical doubt” — and the sorts of characters that engage in it, among which she includes hers — spark a smile of recognition here/now. Is that smile of recognition the self? No, it’s an impulse and a physical reaction.
The guidance she gives…
The urge to say that there is a great deal here arises here/now. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The feeling of recognition of how Pernille addresses, names, articulates the specific ways that some humans (including “I myself”) sometimes handle the challenges of living a human life - through avoiding something scary or uncomfortable rather than being with it fully, arises strongly here. Is that feeling of recognition the self? No, it’s a feeling.
A feeling of interest and hope arises as Pernille talks about the “engineering” of “accepting when you cannot accept” (as I have also heard Eckhart Tolle talk about). Is that feeling of interest and hope the self? No, it’s a feeling of interest and hope.
—
The feeling of needing to relate to you that a pause was taken here, Elad, in which to give my doggy his last walk of the day and and to begin getting ready for bed arises here. Is that feeling of need the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The memory of recognizing something in what Pernille spoke of earlier, of the challengingness of doubt, arises here/now. Is that memory the self? No, it’s a memory/thought.
The piercing desire to feel freed or free arises here, Elad. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to ask what you think, where you think “I am” in this process, to investigate the question of “being on the verge” as you spoke of the other day, arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Feelings of tiredness and of being a bit unwell, reassert themselves here, Elad. Are those feelings the self? No, they are feelings.
The desire to close up shop for the night and head to bed arises here too, now, Elad. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a (or several related) desire(s).
Good night, Elad, and thank you again. More please.
Best wishes till soon from
Joshua
Now we just need to find one pointer amongst the many that evokes for you the level of raw interest and engagement that the the one non-pointer sharing (someone "on the verge") does...
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
I'm glad it felt helpful for you with the Pernille videos, and connected to your journey before as well. Let's continue with that and see if it can provide more help.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
First you:
“Now we just need to find one pointer amongst the many that evokes for you the level of raw interest and engagement that the the one non-pointer sharing (someone "on the verge") does...
I'm glad it felt helpful for you with the Pernille videos, and connected to your journey before as well. Let's continue with that and see if it can provide more help.”
A feeling of dejection is here presently, Elad — not connected to any work or watching of Pernille, but more just of how this evening has unfolded to this point, with family and management and life on earth. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The desire to mention that I have not really done “my homework” tonight - if watching Pernille is now at least part of my homework — arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The feeling of sloth, and lostness, and impatience with “myself” or with something, some idea, of some person, some entity, which “I” strongly suspect is all dreamings, all of this arises here, tumbling up and out of nowwhere. Are all those feelings the self? No, they are a fountain of feelings arising from nowhere visible.
The need to breathe deeply arrives here. A deep breath is taken. Is that need the self? No, it’s a felt, physical need.
A feeling of cluelessness arises here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The desire to somehow be freed of something, of a feeling of frustration, is felt strongly here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a strong feeling being noticed.
The tiniest crack of light is noticed between something and something else here. Between that strong feeling mentioned before and something that isn’t quite that feeling. Is that crack of light the self? No, it’s a glimpse of space or light or something, hard to pin down what it is.
An urge arises to say, “Maybe that’s the self then!” Is that urge the self? No, it’s a urge, and a mischievous troublemaking one too. Something, a thought, arises that says, “you’re just making trouble and you know it.” Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
The thought of an old college friend whom I met for dinner tonight arises here. Is that thought the self? Of course not - it’s a memory and an image of an old friend.
The feeling of “never-gonna-get-it” almost raises its head and looks at me. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling and maybe also a mental activity, a thought with it.
The thought, “I really freaking need help here, Elad” wants to be spoken here, and gets written as a result. Is that thought the self? No, it’s a plaintive bunch of words forming a thought.
The urge to whine — really actually also the urge to say that there is an urge to whine — arises here. Is either the urge to whine or the urge to say that there is an urge to whine the self? No, neither of them is the self; they are both urges.
The word “stupid’ arises here. Is that word/thought the self? No, it’s a word/thought arising from… nowhere.
Elad, the urge to pause again arises here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The desire to say thank you again for working with me so patiently arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to say, “more incisive skillful means, the more laserlike the better, however we can arrange them please” arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Good night Elad, and thank you again.
Best wishes from
Joshua
First you:
“Now we just need to find one pointer amongst the many that evokes for you the level of raw interest and engagement that the the one non-pointer sharing (someone "on the verge") does...
I'm glad it felt helpful for you with the Pernille videos, and connected to your journey before as well. Let's continue with that and see if it can provide more help.”
A feeling of dejection is here presently, Elad — not connected to any work or watching of Pernille, but more just of how this evening has unfolded to this point, with family and management and life on earth. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The desire to mention that I have not really done “my homework” tonight - if watching Pernille is now at least part of my homework — arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The feeling of sloth, and lostness, and impatience with “myself” or with something, some idea, of some person, some entity, which “I” strongly suspect is all dreamings, all of this arises here, tumbling up and out of nowwhere. Are all those feelings the self? No, they are a fountain of feelings arising from nowhere visible.
The need to breathe deeply arrives here. A deep breath is taken. Is that need the self? No, it’s a felt, physical need.
A feeling of cluelessness arises here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The desire to somehow be freed of something, of a feeling of frustration, is felt strongly here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a strong feeling being noticed.
The tiniest crack of light is noticed between something and something else here. Between that strong feeling mentioned before and something that isn’t quite that feeling. Is that crack of light the self? No, it’s a glimpse of space or light or something, hard to pin down what it is.
An urge arises to say, “Maybe that’s the self then!” Is that urge the self? No, it’s a urge, and a mischievous troublemaking one too. Something, a thought, arises that says, “you’re just making trouble and you know it.” Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
The thought of an old college friend whom I met for dinner tonight arises here. Is that thought the self? Of course not - it’s a memory and an image of an old friend.
The feeling of “never-gonna-get-it” almost raises its head and looks at me. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling and maybe also a mental activity, a thought with it.
The thought, “I really freaking need help here, Elad” wants to be spoken here, and gets written as a result. Is that thought the self? No, it’s a plaintive bunch of words forming a thought.
The urge to whine — really actually also the urge to say that there is an urge to whine — arises here. Is either the urge to whine or the urge to say that there is an urge to whine the self? No, neither of them is the self; they are both urges.
The word “stupid’ arises here. Is that word/thought the self? No, it’s a word/thought arising from… nowhere.
Elad, the urge to pause again arises here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The desire to say thank you again for working with me so patiently arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to say, “more incisive skillful means, the more laserlike the better, however we can arrange them please” arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Good night Elad, and thank you again.
Best wishes from
Joshua
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
First you:
“Now we just need to find one pointer amongst the many that evokes for you the level of raw interest and engagement that the the one non-pointer sharing (someone "on the verge") does...
I'm glad it felt helpful for you with the Pernille videos, and connected to your journey before as well. Let's continue with that and see if it can provide more help.”
A feeling of dejection is here presently, Elad — not connected to any work or watching of Pernille, but more just of how this evening has unfolded to this point, with family and management and life on earth. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The desire to mention that I have not really done “my homework” tonight - if watching Pernille is now at least part of my homework — arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The feeling of sloth, and lostness, and impatience with “myself” or with something, some idea, of some person, some entity, which “I” strongly suspect is all dreamings, all of this arises here, tumbling up and out of nowwhere. Are all those feelings the self? No, they are a fountain of feelings arising from nowhere visible.
The need to breathe deeply arrives here. A deep breath is taken. Is that need the self? No, it’s a felt, physical need.
A feeling of cluelessness arises here. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling.
The desire to somehow be freed of something, of a feeling of frustration, is felt strongly here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a strong feeling being noticed.
The tiniest crack of light is noticed between something and something else here. Between that strong feeling mentioned before and something that isn’t quite that feeling. Is that crack of light the self? No, it’s a glimpse of space or light or something, hard to pin down what it is.
An urge arises to say, “Maybe that’s the self then!” Is that urge the self? No, it’s a urge, and a mischievous troublemaking one too. Something, a thought, arises that says, “you’re just making trouble and you know it.” Is that thought the self? No, it’s a thought.
The thought of an old college friend whom I met for dinner tonight arises here. Is that thought the self? Of course not - it’s a memory and an image of an old friend.
The feeling of “never-gonna-get-it” almost raises its head and looks at me. Is that feeling the self? No, it’s a feeling and maybe also a mental activity, a thought with it.
The thought, “I really freaking need help here, Elad” wants to be spoken here, and gets written as a result. Is that thought the self? No, it’s a plaintive bunch of words forming a thought.
The urge to whine — really actually also the urge to say that there is an urge to whine — arises here. Is either the urge to whine or the urge to say that there is an urge to whine the self? No, neither of them is the self; they are both urges.
The word “stupid’ arises here. Is that word/thought the self? No, it’s a word/thought arising from… nowhere.
Elad, the urge to pause again arises here. Is that urge the self? No, it’s an urge.
The desire to say thank you again for working with me so patiently arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
The desire to say, “more incisive skillful means, the more laserlike the better, however we can arrange them please” arises here. Is that desire the self? No, it’s a desire.
Good night Elad, and thank you again.
Best wishes from
Joshua
Seems here seeing is happening, maybe it had happened before we started. You are waiting for life to get better. I can't provide that. All these feelings and dynamics and challenges you describe are part life here too.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
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