Male from Finland

[Tuoli]

Hi!

Why? What was uncomfortable before? Was it the experience itself, or was it the layer of interpretation—the extra mental noise?

It feels like more directly experienced sences are more enjoyable than thoughts that are stealing the attention. Thoughts feel somewhat encumbersome. It's more peaceful definitely.

Very early in seeking journey I noticed that all happiness and pleasure derived from direct experience excluding substances. It was like mental noise was blocking it. All people were seeking unconsciously those moments when mind went silent and opened up for the experience.

The second assignment had some time issues. I tried it after I took my son to kindergarten. Went back home thru small park. It was quiet and wind was calm. No animals and no branches moving, just some car noices. I probably didn't have enough time before work and was tired for not sleeping enough. I live in an urban environment but with access to nature. I can try again when I time for it.

[graceabounds]

Yes. That’s it. The mental noise is what overlays and distorts the simplicity of direct experience. And the irony? The mind constantly seeks what is already present when it shuts up. It runs in circles trying to grasp peace, joy, or fulfillment, not realizing that its own absence is the fulfillment.

Thoughts feel somewhat encumbersome

Do they belong to you? Or are they just arising, doing their habitual thing, and then fading? If you don’t actively generate them, if they come and go like clouds, then whose burden are they, really?

I was listening to a talk yesterday and wrote something down. “You can’t say you want the end of suffering, you want to be free, and still hold on to some sense of Self derived from the movie of your life.” The movie is happy or sad or dramatic or boring, but it is all a show. You don’t need to seek moments of silence, just look at what is in direct experience instead of what is not: this fantastic fiction of the world in thoughts.

[Tuoli]

Hello,

Do they belong to you? Or are they just arising, doing their habitual thing, and then fading? If you don’t actively generate them, if they come and go like clouds, then whose burden are they, really?

They don't belong to me and I don't create them. How to not to create them then? To use analog of the clouds, when there's enough of them, there's snowing or raining. After that if there's even more, there are the storms, even hurricanes. Then there's only the storm and no sky. Few clouds are not a burden but enough of them can be.

I have enjoyed watching many tropical storms in comfy accommodations and watering holes. Thunder and lightning can be quite entertaining to watch! How to do it with ones own mind? Being attentive I suppose...

[graceabounds]

Yes, moment by moment awareness of direct experience is key. You already have some tools/exercises for this, just look back in the thread and use one that resonates.

I have enjoyed watching many tropical storms in comfy accommodations and watering holes. Thunder and lightning can be quite entertaining to watch! How to do it with ones own mind?

Thoughts are not you or yours, great! But look here: there is identification with the one who watches and is entertained! Captivated by the movie of your life, by the thoughts that are not yours. By hurricanes or storms that are seen as not being controlled/controllable. Turn the lens around to this witness, or observer. Can that ‘me’ be found in direct experience? Does it have shape, form, anything?

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.
Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface).
Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

[Tuoli]

Hello,

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
A: There's sensations like tinkling, pulsating and warmness. One feeling is sensation of the surface hand is on and with some time it mixes with other sensations as a cloud of sensations.

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
A: No, but there's this feeling in head that sensing is happening there.

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
A: First there is point in head feeling sensations of a hand. Then sensations merge as cloud of sensations looked from this point in head. With time these start to merge too.

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?
A: That point of experience in the head feels like it's experiencing body and the hand. But when looking it's experience of a body more, it's like cloud of sensations. Then it's more like a spreading fog . Even after the head has become part of fog of sensations, there's still point of experience.

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

By looking at raw experience it's more like an point of experience than a feeler.

[graceabounds]

Hi Esa,

Great, let’s explore further. Close your eyes again. Stay with the fog-like quality of sensations. Sink into it.

Can any boundary be found between what is feeling and what is felt, other than mental labeling?

Is there anything inherently separate from this cloud of sensations that “owns” or “controls” it?

By looking at raw experience it's more like an point of experience than a feeler.

Good. Now go deeper.

This “point of experience”—is it anything other than another sensation? If thought didn’t label it, would it be different from any other sensation appearing?

If it’s just another sensation, what makes it special? Does it actually “own” the others, or is it just another part of the flow?

Drop all stories and just stay with it. Without any thought explaining it, what is actually there?

-Becca

[Tuoli]

Good morning,

Can any boundary be found between what is feeling and what is felt, other than mental labeling?

No, sensations are felt here and although sensations are changing, sensing that it's happening here is not.

Is there anything inherently separate from this cloud of sensations that “owns” or “controls” it?

No, it's more like it's happening here and not anywhere else.

This “point of experience”—is it anything other than another sensation? If thought didn’t label it, would it be different from any other sensation appearing?

If it’s just another sensation, what makes it special? Does it actually “own” the others, or is it just another part of the flow?

Other sensations are fleeting sensations but sensation of them sensed here is not.

Drop all stories and just stay with it. Without any thought explaining it, what is actually there?

Sensing itself, all sensations happening here.

[graceabounds]

Good morning.

Let’s go even further:

This “here” where sensations are happening—what exactly is it? Can you locate a fixed point where it begins or ends? Or is “here” just another mental reference point, an idea placed on top of the raw experiencing?

Sensing itself, all sensations happening here.

Is there an actual thing called “sensing” apart from the sensations themselves? Or is that just a convenient label for an ever-changing flow?

Here’s an exercise to investigate this:

1. Close your eyes. Sit comfortably and let attention rest on sensations appearing right now—sounds, feelings, any subtle movements of energy in the body. No need to describe them, just let them be exactly as they are.
2. Find the boundary. Where does sensing begin and end? Can you locate a clear dividing line between the sensation and what is sensing it?
3. Investigate “here.” When a sound appears, does it come from outside or inside? If a thought didn’t label it, does it have a location at all? When a bodily sensation appears, does it happen “inside you,” or is that just an assumption?
4. Drop all reference points. Forget the concepts of “inside,” “outside,” “self,” “other.” Just stay with raw experience—what remains?
5. Look for ownership. Is there anything separate from the flow of sensations that “owns” or “receives” them? Or is it just an ongoing unfolding, with no center?

Let the experience speak for itself. Don’t settle for an intellectual answer—keep looking until it becomes undeniable.

What do you find?

[Tuoli]

Hello,

This “here” where sensations are happening—what exactly is it? Can you locate a fixed point where it begins or ends? Or is “here” just another mental reference point, an idea placed on top of the raw experiencing?

Is there an actual thing called “sensing” apart from the sensations themselves? Or is that just a convenient label for an ever-changing flow?

This looking has been a bit of a challenge as busy life has instigated a busy mind. This type of looking takes time so that thoughts can settle down first so they don't sway attention away from looking...

Here’s an exercise to investigate this:

1. Close your eyes. Sit comfortably and let attention rest on sensations appearing right now—sounds, feelings, any subtle movements of energy in the body. No need to describe them, just let them be exactly as they are.
2. Find the boundary. Where does sensing begin and end? Can you locate a clear dividing line between the sensation and what is sensing it?

It is not clear. It's same type of foggy experience that experiencing formed before.

3. Investigate “here.” When a sound appears, does it come from outside or inside? If a thought didn’t label it, does it have a location at all? When a bodily sensation appears, does it happen “inside you,” or is that just an assumption?

They are kind of both. On default they come from outside and inside but with time spent on looking, they blend to point of experience.

I'll continue with the rest as this seems too important to just walzs thru...

[graceabounds]

Lovely, take your time.

[Tuoli]

Namaste

4. Drop all reference points. Forget the concepts of “inside,” “outside,” “self,” “other.” Just stay with raw experience—what remains?

As attention goes to point where experiences happen, point broadens to cloud or fog. Sensations and thoughts come and go. Feelings of energy coming and going also. It's like point of experience was blocking it.

5. Look for ownership. Is there anything separate from the flow of sensations that “owns” or “receives” them? Or is it just an ongoing unfolding, with no center?

Ongoing unfolding, with no center describes the experience.

Let the experience speak for itself. Don’t settle for an intellectual answer—keep looking until it becomes undeniable.

What do you find?

Only one changing thing
that is everything
now

[graceabounds]

Yes.

The experience speaks for itself. There is no separate “you” apart from the flow. Only the shifting, unfolding of what is—without a center, without an owner.

Now, look again. Is there anywhere a boundary? A point where “this” becomes “that”? Where experience stops and something else begins? Or is the whole notion of separation just another thought—one that appears and vanishes like all the rest?

[Tuoli]

Hi!


When mind settles and there can be looking of what is, there is no boundary.

There's only one thing experienced now. It can be sensation on skin, memory, sound or thought or any experience that pops up. It happens now. Can there be separation of nows? It could be called time, I suppose. - Is second hand on a clock separate second to second?
No, it's a flow and separation is just it's given attribute called second.

However outside of deep looking lived experience is living with boundaries, limitations, emotions and thoughts. Especially strongly this is felt in interactions with people!

[graceabounds]

Hello :)

Yes, in deep looking, the seamless flow of experience is apparent—no boundaries, no separation. There is only this moment, and any division, such as time, is just an imposed structure, a mental overlay. But then, as you say, outside of deep looking, there’s a return to limitations, boundaries, and emotional reactions, particularly in interactions with others.

So what’s happening there? What changes?

Right now, look directly: When you’re engaged with others, where is this you that feels limited? Can you find it? Or is there just sensation, thought, and response appearing spontaneously?

Notice how the sense of self becomes more pronounced in interactions—it contracts, defends, compares. Why? Because the social self is built on reinforcement, conditioning, and habitual narratives. This “self” only seems real when believed in.

Drop the story in real time, right there in the moment of contraction with another person. See what remains. What is left without the narrative? What happens to limitation when there is no reference point?

[Tuoli]

Hello Becca,


During your guidance morning shifts have been challenging for these exercises. Actually development has seemingly gone backwards. Less sleep and own time there has been, more challenging looking has been.

This time however what is, is accepted as it is. It is what it is. Just wanted to tell you that I haven't been successful with this exercise(or other) and that's why haven't replied yet. It's been more just observing thoughts and feelings of this bodymind. It is and everything is just as it is. :)