It’s already present

[Rega]

Crazy timing.

well, still, I can easily enter a state of real expension or presence. past mainly seemed to just fall off as a real thing.
I am not assuming that this is a constant change in me, or trying not to hold on to it at least, but I guess present moment has become more present. And with it feeling of seperation is not so much present. for that matter, I am this laptop now. I don't know what it means. but I am.

About kundalini, well It was just rising when you sent out the message (crazy, ha). So I tried to investigate a bit during but thoughts don't hold much and basically any sort of intention really falls off during it. So I don't have a clear answer.
Still, let's try it out - it is energy releasing itself, for sure. That's a thought, but it feels like a call out from the body. I would say that usually this process is really based in higher chakras (I am becoming more and more hipppie here...). I am thinking about the process a lot, I am looking for the divine or whatever. And when this is rising it's like the body is calling me back here.

But what is it in direct exprience. It really feels like energy flowing. Interestingly, I do find here a seeming self that is thought to exprience these movements. or that these movements accure to it. to me. But here I find no one. So what is the difference. In shaking now, I find a feeling of fear, that holds onto a self. I feel like a kid hiding under a table. when not shaking, I can enter a state of expension. But while shaking, the feeling is contracted. Interesting to inquire, what changes, what enters expension and how.

This is all fascinating.
thank you.

[Elad]

:)

In terms of this exploration, the main point is to return to DIRECT EXPERIENCE and IS THERE STILL A BELIEF IN SEPARATE SELF.

We are of course not asking if this is believed intellectually. We are also not asking if it sometimes feels like there is and sometimes feels like there isn't. We are looking to get to bottom of this.

When it feels like someone needs to be protected in the shaking, what is being believed to be the separate self that needs protection?

When it feels like someone could succeed in life and that is great, or get enlightened and that is great, or could be a faiulre, or deluded, or die, what seems to be this separate self that could be saved, could succeed or fail, die?

Is it any more than a fantasy?

[Rega]

In terms of this exploration, the main point is to return to DIRECT EXPERIENCE and IS THERE STILL A BELIEF IN SEPARATE SELF.

We are of course not asking if this is believed intellectually. We are also not asking if it sometimes feels like there is and sometimes feels like there isn't. We are looking to get to bottom of this.

Well, if I answer honestly, then the answer that comes up here is yes. There is still a belief in a separate self. Yet, I don’t find it. Not the self, not even the belief, in direct experience. It’s weird. All I find here is life, movement, sensations. And I know these don’t imply a self (well, I know by thought - but this is not the point).
So, what is the belief? I don’t know, the closer I look, it just vanishes, and all that remains is feelings.
I think the belief that is still here is that I would know non separation, but this is separation. So what knows? I’m stuck, and with being stuck, an answer rises, out of stuckness.
What is still here? We’re looking to get to bottom, right. And then, when looking, here there is no bottom, nor depth to dive into.

When it feels like someone could succeed in life and that is great, or get enlightened and that is great, or could be a faiulre, or deluded, or die, what seems to be this separate self that could be saved, could succeed or fail, die?


Right. This is the self that feels to be real still. What seems to be this self, wow. Fear of dying without achieving, who is achieving. I’m really stuck with this one.
What I’m finding when going deep is just fear of not being loved and respected, and a sentence that still is really stuck - “you have brains/ talent/ one life/ - don’t waste it”. So the belief is still in a self that owns - the qualities, the life. But it’s not true. I know. I know. What knows?
🤷🏽‍♀️


When it feels like someone needs to be protected in the shaking, what is being believed to be the separate self that needs protection?
A child. It always feels very child like.
It’s the feeling that I can’t handle it openly, so maybe it’s the feeling of control. It’s the feeling that I know I am in control of it, I can make it stop, I can choose how much to go into. What is the separate self here? The false control. And the thought that I can’t handle this fully.

I don’t know, I tried to answer these throughout the week and failed.
I am finished with confusion, and frustration for some reason. Like this is soooo elusive. Trying to go back into a feeling of power, or readiness, in a way.

Thank you very much.
Have a nice day :)

[Rega]

hey, good morning :)

I want to share first of all:
What all of this feels like right now? looking at everything with freshness, liveliness, it is the only real thing. this room, these lights... I don't seperate, I don't look for anything, really. this is so much simpler. this is the only exprience, it is strange, but I am just resting where strange is, with full surrender.

I have come to encounter a new feeling, which is very somatic, and let it wash me from time to time, until I am lost in the mind. It feels very relevant to the process. It is powerful but I have no accurate name for it.

for our last post, I believe that there are some deep rooted beliefs there. It is funny now, because I see how false they are, how empty, how nothing, compared to all of this. And still, if you'd ask me to release "being smart", "being loveable", successful (a lot of tension around this one), and dying, well, it is just hard. There is fear, avoidance mainly, I feel like I am not concentrated when touching these subjects (I know this avoidance quality in me from the therapy).

I will work with them (by choice, with power, not from a place of weakness)
Have a beautiful day.

[Elad]

Good morning :)

This is beautiful. Yes rest into the unnamable directness and let feeling/sensation wash over you...

And, it is very good you see that these sticking points are still there. It is important *to bring the inquiry back to what is happening in the normal state*. If we mainly inquire within states of immersion in sensations, as well as kundalini and such, it doesn’t address "the place" where the belief in separate me is still held, and it can create a kind of split between the “ spiritual experiences” and your normal experience of yourself.

So allow yourself to experience yourself in the normal way, where you really want to succeed in YOUR one life and you are afraid to waste it or fail or get hurt or do wrong in YOUR one life. And when you experience yourself in this absolutely normal way, look into: Is there actually any real self having this experience? What is actually there, that is unconsciously believed to be "good old (bad old/ scared old) Zoie"?

At this point (and maybe you sensed this all ready earlier) it can be good to shift between "WHO am I who believes/controls/wants/tries etc" and "WHAT is it that is believed to be the self". The first formulation takes you more into the normal intimate experience. The second formulation accentuates to look at it in a more neutral way. The first one is good to help you return the inquiry into *your normal experience of yourself*. The second is good once you have found your normal self experience, to look at what is actually there in simple bare attention.

When you detect resistance/avoidance, don't try to change it, but rather be very curious about it. How does it feel, what does it consist of, and what is it really trying to protect.

[Rega]

What is believed to be good old Zoie? What is believed to need to cease (life, this trip, professional opportunities)?

I do want to succeed. A thought says. What is it? It’s present here, it’s seeing life through a telescope of everything, I don’t know. It really feels divided, either I’m this person with the beliefs, or I go to the body and reality and present moment.

Within the belief, within the normal state. Who am I that believes to need to be successful? Or just to be smart or a waste? I am so stuck you don’t even know. My brain is shutting down like a computer. Who am I that needs to be successful? That can die? I am fear of letting my parents down. I am fear of dying feeling like a waste. Waste is not being able to feel whole or that I made an impact. Waste is looking at all of the past and evaluating it, making moments to be told of, or moments of appreciation, more important than others. Butttt this is all within the belief. And what is it that believes it?

Swear I feel like solving a recursive problem. It always goes back and back and back and I’m lost. What believes it is what feels like the self, and this is, just not be found…

🆘

[Elad]

Good. Try and let the illusion of the self fully form, go deeper and really look for how exactly is it and where... Don't try to find it in direct experience now, but rather really invite the illusion to fully form and sense WHERE is it assumed to be found and what form is it believed to take.

[Elad]

Hi dear Z.

I have given some thoughts to your irregular/long answering times. Normally in this process it is recommended to write every day. I have so far let it be loose here with an intuition that it is good this way for you. But I am questioning now if it really/still is helpful for your process, or if it might just ophold a stance of less intense and wholehearted engagement. I am wondering if it might be better to make it a condition for our continued cooperation that you write here every day (as the norm, exceptions always exist).

Please look/feel deply into this and tell me what you sense is true for you. If this irregularity is truly the most helpful way to do it, we can continue. But my intuition is that while that might have been good until now, it is time to change.

I am also open that looking into this, you might discover that your heart wants to focus on other things now, and we can stop for now, and you will always be able to return later.

Let me know what you sense after feeling deeply into what I wrote you here. I am always open to discover the most helpful way.

[Rega]

hey,
thank you for thinking about it and writing to me.
You know, it's interesting. during the week I usually write something and delete it a few times until a message feels clear, and I also work with the messages you send. I say this only to point out that work is performed daily in a way...

On the other hand,I definitely agree that before it was really needed for me, and now I am using this loose structure in a way to avoid writing.

I want to be sincere and say that even though you have told me several times just to write what is present daily, I think part of the fear is that the message I write to you is not sincere enough, not clear enough. I also notice a fear to just write to you daily and not waking up. like I am seeing the pages here getting more and more and yet... so It's easier to take my time in a way? I am putting this into words only so we can look past it. I feel like really I still feel like asking you to reply daily is too much, even though you ask me to. אני מפחדת לחפור לך. בלי ניסוח טוב יותר באנגלית.

But you said enough times that you enjoy this process. And also I always break daily structures in my life, so this isn't new to me and i feel like I need some structure or I get lost.

Anyway, thank you very much for looking into it, really. do you mind if we try doing it daily (as a condition) and I'll report how does it feel?

[Rega]

Good. Try and let the illusion of the self fully form, go deeper and really look for how exactly is it and where... Don't try to find it in direct experience now, but rather really invite the illusion to fully form and sense WHERE is it assumed to be found and what form is it believed to take.

And it's a good oppurtunity to work too. These places of guilt or avoidance or fear are self based right? so here the illusion forms. It is in the form of trying to capture what you think of me, of feeling these emotions in my stomach and just, well, just feeling like Zoie. Like me. what is it like? It feels constant, It feels that it is defined ny the cnnections i have with other people, It feels that it is this body form always looking the same. It is believed to be a form moving through time, always having the same structure or body or characer, having certain qualities that I am proud of.

It actually makes me meet places of high and low self esteem, like I think of my face, I think of my character, and these are all immediately judged as good or bad. and all of this holds the self.

These are all not self yet. These are emotions and thoughts and beliefs. So Why do I believe it? What believes it? I loose track. I enter a wider state, where there is no defintion to anything. I don't know what form does it take, because it is nothing.

(Let's just say, that before, I would've probably deleted this message for not being new enough or clear enough)

[Elad]

Hi Zoie, thank you for this sincere sharing. Let's work with daily writing as condition - and yes, keep sharing about how it is to be in the process this way.

To the inquiry:

Good work bringing more clarity to what you habitually identify as you.

Keep noticing that, and then inquiring into is that really what you are? Did you find a real and separate agent?

Do you really believe that any of these thoughts and images capture the deepest truth about what you are/what this is?

Do you you feel you have found and expressed the absolute truth when you say these things?



Here is a little inspiration, the pointing language is different here, but in any case it is never about what is said, it is about what is directly experienced while it is being heard, when looking/feeling/sensing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4E5UPJ ... Uj&index=4

[Rega]

No I don’t believe any of those thoughts capture who I am. No. I have definitely not expressed an absolute truth.

I am much simpler. Much simpler. Right now the illusion seems far. That’s a lie. That’s a thought. And reality. Ahhhh.

The video is great. The elusive feeling is depicted in a very clear way.

In my inquiry now, what is real now? Just that looking at the body and looking at everything else seems to be the same substance. Everything seems flat. These fingers just go, no ownership.

Now a memory rose, I believed it to be real. Then here there is no I to believe it and no memory and everything still is flat and easy. So why does it feel to be elusive or temporary?
A belief that I am not awake. That I am the one that would be awake. It’s a belief. It still feels sometimes like a game of altered conscious states. And not seeing through reality. Even the one that understands all of this is self. Is me.

But then again everything seems flat.
Don’t know. I seem to be avoiding something. Or just turning around my own tail. And when the cycle breaks everything is easy.

[Elad]

🍃


What makes something real as opposed to just a game, what is the difference?

Is something less valuable if it is a game, if so, how?


Here is an exercise:

1) Write down a list of thoughts, images and sensations that are most deeply and habitually identified as "mine" or "me". Spend some time really trying to find the most "mine" thoughts and images and etc. Let me know what is discovered.

2) Can you see that all these thoughts, images and sensations can equally be described as "spontaneous nature, not me not mine"?

3) If that is the case, is it clear that none of these are a stable and inherently separate self?


Here is another video for inspiration: https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w?si=Hw8ystZYpsKuRFi5

[Rega]

Hey, so after doing the list.

Most of the “me” thoughts are regarding how I imagine my external image, how I imagine people judge me (both for better or worse) - but an attempt to formulate a view of me from the outside, sometimes similar to the one I hold on other people- being others. So trying to grasp myself as other in order to see how am i seen. This is all feels very much like me. In what way? Just behind it, stands this fear, this attempt to figure myself out, contracted in a a way.

More thoughts are around planning life and decision making, trying to predict life, the bigger the decision the bigger the me.

But a very “mine” thought is thoughts regarding the process, both the spiritual and the emotional. Mainly the emotional seems to really be mine.

I can see that this all can be described as spontaneous nature. But still won’t let go in a way. Let me go into it. I mean, I really see that it is just like that. This is how life operate inside, no agent. But I mean let’s take the positive emotional process, the illusion of a me walking a path and evolving is very much present. In a way less now, when shedding light over it. Just emotions being healed, still doesn’t have to imply a self. Thoughts trying to judge some image of a me is not a me. I understand it on some level, but it also doesn’t hit really hard here.

It is more clear that none of these is a separate self because even the imagined self is greater than these. These come and go. Even though the continuous structure of them feels to be self because of its repetitive nature.

About the games. Just it’s a way for me to put the present experience in a “box”, of altered mind state, and feel like it’s less real because I imagine other states at the same time. That’s an elusive one, but it’s basically a way to step a little back from full presence.

Have a nice evening
Zoie

[Elad]

I can see that this all can be described as spontaneous nature. But still won’t let go in a way. Let me go into it.

Look at that "wont let go into it" thought. Is it being made "mine" even though it is unchosen and spontaneous?

I mean, I really see that it is just like that. This is how life operate inside, no agent. But I mean let’s take the positive emotional process, the illusion of a me walking a path and evolving is very much present. In a way less now, when shedding light over it. Just emotions being healed, still doesn’t have to imply a self. Thoughts trying to judge some image of a me is not a me. I understand it on some level, but it also doesn’t hit really hard here.

Again the sensation that is interpretted as "it does not it hard"...

Is this sensation a me, mine?

Is the interpretation that it means it doesn't hit a me or mine?

Or all this just happens?


Please make sure you don't answer neither from "understanding", nor from "past experience" nor from "how it feels". All these are just thoughts plus sensations. Only thing that really matters here is to look and see freshly what actually is in real time...


And lets freshly check again:

Do you control thought?
Do you control attention?
Do you control choice?
Do you control movement?
Do you control what is percieved?
Do you control what is in awareness?


Check each one separate.