Jen seeking guidance

[Jenness]

The heart wants to feel and have connection. The first half is certainly happening. Go back in and ask more about connection… connection to what? In what way is that connection already present? In other words is it possible to not be connected?

Connection to just what is here but I can’t find the me that’d be connecting with it. Everything is connection or feels like connection. Like when perceived, the perceiver /awareness is so intimate with everything that it is everything it perceives and that comes with a feeling of connection. I guess there’s actually no way for those to be separated, because without it being perceived, it just wouldn’t be here in my consciousness, so inherently everything perceived is automatically so close to what’s perceiving it that it’s the same. It’s not possible to not be connected, or if something isn’t connected but is here, then i just wouldn’t know it’s here. I was trying to figure out how there can be a sense of separatedness, and there’s this ability to believe in a construct, an ability for symbolism that our brains seem to have. It labels two different things, an entity/self and a thing being perceived, and now it can believe that they’re separate. It’s odd how it appears real..a trick involving attention and ability to take a label as truth and not a label. Will have to look at it more

Fully grieve that suffering, the shame and then take a look: is there anyone at the core of it?

No, there’s just shame , or the sensations of it, and the idea that there’s a self that’s going to have a life it’s unhappy with and it wants to be better

That child you, is she threatened in any way now? Is there a need to protect her here and now?

No, she needed more back then but now she’s no longer here , and the leftover associations and programming from those events just continue to drive ideas of safe and not , with the sensations of shame linked to what was labeled as a problem in the external situation, but are no longer necessarily true. No one’s rejection or acceptance nowadays is going to be a life or death situation, even though will affect my life story and whether my life is as good as I’d like it to be.

Is it possible to protect from/resist what is happening? Or just experience it? Does the thing that offers protection prohibit connection? Would it be ok to let that thing rest now?

It is not possible to resist what is happening and it is only possible to pretend , and that pretending shifts causes and conditions..? There are conditions that are more protective, like boundaries or avoiding situations that could cause harm or even just could cause rejection, but nothing that protects from the sensations here because if it’s here, it’s already fully felt. So the thing that offers protection in life is the thing that listens to fear and tries to steer away. It prohibits connection because it’s labeling something as not okay to experience , and inhibiting connection to that thing that it’s labeled in that way, and meaning there’s mines around the place I have to step around. It would be freer to not have that, or there’s something to have to be careful about. But most of or maybe all of what it’s labeling as a problem is the emotional sensations, because not sure how the external world can affect me other than through emotions. So, yes it feels like it’s okay to let protection against emotions rest now. It’s taking a while for the body to learn that though

[graceabounds]

I can’t find the me that’d be connecting with it. Everything is connection or feels like connection

Exactly. There never was a separate “you” connecting.

even though will affect my life story and whether my life is as good as I’d like it to be.

What does a ‘good life’ mean, without a story?

Is the worth or goodness of life something that exists anywhere? Is it ‘real’?

So, yes it feels like it’s okay to let protection against emotions rest now. It’s taking a while for the body to learn that though

Let this be slow, let it take as long as it needs.

Is there anything that needs protection?
Or only the immediacy of connection, with nothing outside, nothing missing, no one at risk?

[Jenness]

What does a ‘good life’ mean, without a story?
Is the worth or goodness of life something that exists anywhere? Is it ‘real’?

It’s unclear without a story.. but it’s still hard to trust that in a way nothing is happening, because the world appears to operate a certain way, like a person talking to another person, a person who has a job versus not, and then that impacts physical and emotional suffering etc. Like It still impacts the sensations that we have to experience, and it’s hard enough to not get caught and suffer from emotional sensations, but physical ones are even harder to not suffer from, and it impacts the length of our time here. Would love to let go of that perspective or belief that there’s some realness to all this… Think there’s some missing insight that’s keeping it feeling real maybe. Feeling into letting go of being any kind of good person or having any kind of good life or healthy long life seems good for loosening some of the attachment though. Feels like underneath is just a child who’s like “I want it to go my way!” “Or else I’ll be so sad and scared and unable to tolerate that” “I must build a good person and a good life or I’ll have to be in a never ending ball of fear and despair” Contacting that feels good. The despair at least feels kind of grounding , and the fear is trickier but maybe a bit freeing and exciting

Is there anything that needs protection?
Or only the immediacy of connection, with nothing outside, nothing missing, no one at risk?

Oh cool, I guess there’s no one there to protect. Weird to notice that
Only connection and that’s it.. and labels of problems with the grief, and a little bit of like: that’s silly, you’re grieving but you’ll actually be getting more connection

[graceabounds]

Hi Jen,

“Or else I’ll be so sad and scared and unable to tolerate that”

Are you actually unable to tolerate whatever is happening now?

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend".
Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger".
Compare these thoughts.
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend".
After that, look at a thought about the character labeled "me”.
Is there a difference?
Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"?

What’s actually real in this moment, right now, outside of all stories?
Can you find a “good person,” or a “bad person,” except as a thought-label?

Oh cool, I guess there’s no one there to protect. Weird to notice that

So if no one to protect, can what has been doing the protecting of no one let go?

[Jenness]

Are you actually unable to tolerate whatever is happening now?

No, it just feels really uncomfortable , and thought it would never go away, just “I don’t want this” on repeat. And then used the last question, the dropping the protection one, helped some kind of letting go like action happen and then a lot of intensity that felt like it was below the resistance, and then felt good just to feel, so I spent some time feeling.

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend".
Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger".
Compare these thoughts.
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Just different in content, how many thoughts and prediction models I have , more for friend than stranger.

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend".
After that, look at a thought about the character labeled "me”.
Is there a difference?
Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"?

It’s more constant information feedback, like constant thoughts and feelings and access to different data, like sensory experiences and individual thoughts. when I look at the character of me , and the image of myself, instead, then it’s actually less clearer stories. Much more contradictions and unknown and uncertainty about what this character actually feels like to the outside world, because spend so much more time caught as it rather than observing it and any observation of it is biased by internal thoughts of what i want it to be or scared it is. Tried going back and running through memories more with is as a character that’s not me, and it just means much more data into how it’s acting than i would with a friend, including arguments, losing temper, being judgmental, etc. that I wouldn’t widely share with people so I wouldn’t necessarily know about my friends. So I have a more negative view of this character than characters I tend to call friends, but other than that, same kind of substance, same kind of story. I’m kind of confused how it seems like I’m aware of this character like I’m watching it but there’s no watcher. It seems like it’s a mental picture of a person put together from the sensations and memories.

What’s actually real in this moment, right now, outside of all stories?

Sensations, sights, etc., and the sensations in the body and appearance of thoughts that pop up with content like a voice thought, and then silent concepts that go unnoticed and taken for granted until i look

Can you find a “good person,” or a “bad person,” except as a thought-label?

No, I can only find predictive models of how aversive this character’s set of behaviors would be to the modeled “average person” in my mind, and models of how other characters would label this character as. As those thought loosen up, then it’s I’m not good enough thoughts attached , then actually just more sadness and hurt underneath

So if no one to protect, can what has been doing the protecting of no one let go?

It needs to be constantly reminded there’s no one here to protect, and then it’s willing to let go some and then just feeling fear and sadness and some protective dissociation , and a frustration I think a want to have something that can keep me from hurt, and just spending time with the sensations

[graceabounds]

a lot of intensity that felt like it was below the resistance, and then felt good just to feel, so I spent some time feeling

Exactly. Beautiful. Intensity is not dangerous, it is just more!

because spend so much more time caught as it rather than observing it and any observation of it is biased by internal thoughts of what i want it to be or scared it is

I’m kind of confused how it seems like I’m aware of this character like I’m watching it but there’s no watcher. It seems like it’s a mental picture of a person put together from the sensations and memories.

Is it direct experience that there is no watcher or philosophy?
How does getting “caught” work? Who gets caught?

Yes, lets investigate that mental picture of ‘I’
Here is an exercise which points out the difference between direct experience and content of thought.

There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, color and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?
Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination.

[Jenness]

Exactly. Beautiful. Intensity is not dangerous, it is just more!

Ohh okay it’s just more. That’s helpful

Is it direct experience that there is no watcher or philosophy?

It was direct in that moment, but it comes and goes and tends to take inquiry to look and disengage from watcher thought. Strong habit of locating watcher a the back of the brain, as if it’s literally looking out with a directionality towards front of body

How does getting “caught” work? Who gets caught?

It’s some kind of capacity for the human system to operate as if something that is not for sure true, is true, and use it to guide goal-oriented behavior in the midst of continuous uncertainty. I guess otherwise it would make planning for the future and working towards an imagined future very hard and we would not have been able to build the technologies and societies we have. But i see, no one is getting caught, it’s just the system operating.

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, color and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?
Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

Content is not real, cannot physically interact with it.

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

I see, everything except the 5 senses are thoughts, where the content is not real, but is theories about how the appearances in our 5 senses operate. They are not inherently real, they are a tool for getting things from the world.

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination.

Not real in the way a real cup would be. Some kind of accuracy for navigating the world, like I have to leave now to get to hang out at 2. Funny to see humans operate off this world of constructs

[graceabounds]

Hi Jen,

Let’s explore this watcher. :)

Bring attention directly to the watcher place at the back of the head. Just feel it.

Is the “watcher” made of anything other than sensation + thought?
Is there a subject, or just a tangle of tension, subtle imagery, and the idea of watching?
Can you find the eyes of the watcher?
If you stop “looking out,” does anything change? Does the scene collapse?


Is there anyone behind the watcher, watching the watcher?
If you try to find the exact edge of the watcher, does it blur out, move, dissolve, or vanish?
Can you find any substance to the watcher?


Let the sense of directionality go completely fuzzy. Like let there be no “front,” no “back,” just undivided field.
What happens?

Much love,
Becca

[Jenness]

Hi Becca! Happy holidays :)

Is the “watcher” made of anything other than sensation + thought?

No, it’s not. It’s initially both a tension and a thought , like an imagined idea of a looker, and then even if i loosen tension , there’s a fainter imagined idea of looker, though it starts feeling less in control and more scary like what’s going on

Is there a subject, or just a tangle of tension, subtle imagery, and the idea of watching?

Just a tangle of those things. I initially thought, but i’m aware, so there’s a subject, but it’s just aware of itself..? So it’s neither a subject or an object

Can you find the eyes of the watcher?

No, just an image of my physical eyes and imagining looking out of it. Though that falls apart when it’s looking at internal things. Then there’s no eyes at all. Just something that’s aware that i anchor to a place in my head

If you stop “looking out,” does anything change? Does the scene collapse?

No, nothing changes in visuals

Is there anyone behind the watcher, watching the watcher?

It initially feels like there is someone watching from behind, but no one is there. It’s because I’m aware of the tension and have a mental habit of thinking the looker is behind something’s it’s away of

If you try to find the exact edge of the watcher, does it blur out, move, dissolve, or vanish?

It does all of those and then there’s sadness and then a tension reforms and so on

Can you find any substance to the watcher?

No. It’s real sneaky though, as long as there’s tension, it claims it unless attention is on the tension. Will have to continue to look at it

Let the sense of directionality go completely fuzzy. Like let there be no “front,” no “back,” just undivided field.
What happens?

Confusion, annoyance, sadness, like how am I supposed to get anything in life if i can’t tell up from down

;)

[graceabounds]

Hello.

Great looking. :)

Just something that’s aware that i anchor to a place in my head

Try to step back into the “place in the head.”

Can you do it deliberately?
Or does the sense of location just appear automatically, uninvited?

Let the sense of directionality go completely fuzzy. Like let there be no “front,” no “back,” just undivided field.
What happens?

Confusion, annoyance, sadness, like how am I supposed to get anything in life if i can’t tell up from down

Letting directionality go fuzzy doesn’t mean you
won’t function, can’t navigate life or that the body won’t know what to do

That fear assumes there was ever a controller doing those things.

When you walk, do you calculate right or left?
When you reach for a cup, does a manager orient space? Or does movement just happen?

The organism already knows how to function without reference to a center! What’s threatened is the story of ownership, not functioning. :)

Happy holidays to you too!

[Jenness]

Try to step back into the “place in the head.”

Can you do it deliberately?
Or does the sense of location just appear automatically, uninvited?

Can’t do it deliberately, because when I do it deliberately , then it’s harder to believe it’s a watcher. So the sense of location appears automatically, uninvited. Like I believe it unknowingly until i look at it

When you walk, do you calculate right or left?
When you reach for a cup, does a manager orient space? Or does movement just happen?

I tried it and it does know how to do distance and direction on its own! Initially felt hard because usually i also think about distance and direction at the same time i do something, but was cool to see it was unneeded. Though feels a little harder if i’m using distance to do something, like if I’m estimating how far something is, but maybe just an adjustment and the brain will learn

The organism already knows how to function without reference to a center! What’s threatened is the story of ownership, not functioning. :)

When I don’t pay attention, it does do dumb things though, like grab something other than toothpaste to put on my toothbrush or bump into random things, but I think I’m learning, the attention and planning is helpful but it’s part of letting it do it’s thing too . The identification with attention is a bit sticky, so working on noticing that

[graceabounds]

Halfway there lol.

I tried it and it does know how to do distance and direction on its own!

This is clear seeing.

When I don’t pay attention, it does do dumb things though, like grab something other than toothpaste to put on my toothbrush or bump into random things, but I think I’m learning, the attention and planning is helpful but it’s part of letting it do it’s thing too

This is smuggling back in a do-er who needs to pay attention or else…

Is paying attention something a self does, or just what happens as part of being alive?

Is the story about being to blame for bumping into something true?

Who judges what is ‘dumb’?

Letting go of the watcher doesn’t mean being passive or mindless, it just means the old story of “someone in charge” is no longer believed. :)

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

[Jenness]

Is paying attention something a self does, or just what happens as part of being alive?

It’s something the self system knows how to do on its own! I don’t have to direct it, but attention and the watcher are super tricky for me. As soon as there’s a focusing I think it’s me focusing. And at baseline, the watcher is hanging out being like, I’m keeping an eye on things. Letting go of the watcher leads to kind of feeling like I don’t know what’s gong on, so I can’t monitor whether I’m doing something aversive to others or not. And because I can pop into , i don’t know what’s going on, but still have a certain distanced membrane somehow and so not fully openness to the love, it can kind of just follow clinging habits even without a sense of self being very aware of what it’s doing..

Is the story about being to blame for bumping into something true?

No, it’s not true. There’s a wish that there was someone to blame though, that there was some control. this story of blaming has been loosening more, and it’s meant a less guilt in general, but fear and sadness have remained. there’s still not wanting it to happen, because of still a clinging to the body staying pain free. And that story.. I guess it’s a strong preference, a lack of wanting to accept that possibilty of pain and death at any time, not wanting to feel the sadness about how much loss and how inherently difficult it is to be a being with a body. And then more generally, still a strong wanting to be acceptable and likable.. there’s still a I feel bad about myself if I do unlikable things, but it’s become less clear if it’s shame or just a sadness for what i expect to lose in terms of connection, or maybe more accurately, a contact with a constant grief of lack of connection and acceptance that I try to use getting the self to be a certain way in order to not experience

Who judges what is ‘dumb’?

A thought in my head. It’s like “how funny” and then it’s like “oh you gotta let it use attention to complete tasks, not zone out.” that’s for minor tasks i’m not too invested in, but for the social stuff. It’s a “oh gosh.. it did a weird anxious thing.. I don’t like that. They might think x and y. Nothing I can do at this point. Let’s find the sensation that was driving that action and sit with it, in hopes that it’ll do that less over time.” So, seems like just loops of optimizing for social outcomes, especially in a professional settings. Outcomes that a sense of self still believes we should learn to prevent if possible.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Nothing chooses. A sequence of events happen, like a want or urge, with the final happening being the movement of the hand

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

No, the system just does it

What is it that is controlling the hand?

no one is controlling it. It follows some kind of patterning perhaps but what that patterning is would be a lot to figure out

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, it’s similar to instincts, it just happens

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

no

How is the decision made?

No decision is made. Just things happening in what appears to be a sequence in the appearance of time

[graceabounds]

Letting go of the watcher leads to kind of feeling like I don’t know what’s gong on, so I can’t monitor whether I’m doing something aversive to others or not.

Yes! This feels risky, vulnerable, and unsafe because the habit was always to “monitor” from a distance, to try to predict and control what others think or feel.
But that “watcher” was never actually in control; it was only ever another tension, another layer of thought, another attempt to be safe.

When the watcher drops, is there really more risk, or just more aliveness?
When you’re not monitoring every move, does something dangerous actually happen, or is there just more openness, even if it’s confusing or unfamiliar?
Can you actually “know” what others are thinking, even with a watcher?

I guess it’s a strong preference, a lack of wanting to accept that possibilty of pain and death at any time, not wanting to feel the sadness about how much loss and how inherently difficult it is to be a being with a body

In direct experience, now, is it difficult or is this a story?

Does pain or death care if it is accepted or not?

Is there someone here to be with a body?

[Jenness]

But that “watcher” was never actually in control; it was only ever another tension, another layer of thought, another attempt to be safe.

Ohh like the watching didn't actually give it more information to do any “better.” I can see that! I think with less of the dissociation that comes from fear of letting go of the watcher, I’m actually just as aware of what’s happening as with the watcher

When the watcher drops, is there really more risk, or just more aliveness?

I can’t tell if there’s more risk! In which case, why not do drop it if it’s not necessarily doing anything. Definitely more intimacy, which I’ve realized just scares me. Like a lack of protective membrane that’s made my heart feel it’s safe from hurt. Because I didn’t reach out, it’s less painful than to put myself out there when I don’t trust to not get rejected and hurt. Though when by myself it’s better because I logically know there’s no danger to being intimate with senses. More aliveness. Yes it feels that way! Even if it comes with fear, it’s at least alive fear

When you’re not monitoring every move, does something dangerous actually happen, or is there just more openness, even if it’s confusing or unfamiliar?

There’s definitely more confusing, like I have no idea “how i did” and I think I’m less people pleasing and more direct so some who require that might be put off a bit, but it’s not actually feel dangerous to me. i feel a little bad, but nothing bad actually happened.

Can you actually “know” what others are thinking, even with a watcher?

Hmmm no! I can have conjectures from their responses and body language etc., and when I’m pretty sure, i think it’s often been corroborated when I ask, but most of the time, the watcher isn’t even that sure, it just has worries that it spins around. Yea, I think if it actually could know with high certainty then it wouldn’t really be worried about it. It’s the uncertainty that it hates, and then tried to avoid by coming up with conjectures to follow

In direct experience, now, is it difficult or is this a story?

A story! Body is completely healthy right now, but story about what it would be to experience that kind of physical suffering that I haven’t experienced but have labeled as the worst thing ever

Does pain or death care if it is accepted or not?

No, it’s going to happen anyway. Acceptance I guess just means less suffering

Is there someone here to be with a body?

No, there’s just a sensing of the sensations in the body, like a “me” in sensing form