Pay Attention

[Vivien]

Hi Keith,

What I can find so far is a background running commentary of thoughts with content like “I am hearing that sound” or “I am noticing a thought” that arise with sensations.

Yes. Just notice that thoughts are commenting on almost everything that is happening. It’s continuously narrating everything that is or happening.

Can you see that “I am hearing a sound” is just a thought narration on hearing?
Also, “I am noticing a thought” is just a thought narration (like subtitle) on knowing the presence of a thought?

Here is an interesting exercise that helps to see this.

The following link is a 7-minute clip of a soccer game. If you prefer another sport…please feel free to find one to do this exercise with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in, the whole experience.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.

Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (thought) offers lots of know-how, even advice. It seems to feel as though they can influence, somehow, what is going on, as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary may seem to heighten any supporter feelings which are there, and call for an identification with one team or other, and with the importance of the game itself.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary, the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Again notice all the differences in what is appearing as experience.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know thought is talking about, and just notice it as sound.

What did you find when doing this exercise?
Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?
And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

Notice this inner narration as often as you can for today.
What is it that you can discover about it? What do you notice?

Does the comment influence the game? Does it do it at all?

How about the comment commenting on Keith’s every move?

Vivien

[Purpleturtle]

Hi Vivien,

Can you see that “I am hearing a sound” is just a thought narration on hearing?
Also, “I am noticing a thought” is just a thought narration (like subtitle) on knowing the presence of a thought?

Yes, I can see that these are comments on experience that sort of turn it into a thing, or try to. Then that thing can be judged with more comments/thoughts.

What did you find when doing this exercise?

Without the commentary the game is more like a pattern of movements (although I did find my own commentary intruding with soccer. Thoughts like “was she offside?” So I switched to ice hockey which I am less familiar with). The commentary adds a sense of anticipation, urgency and interpretation of the movements. I found it difficult to ignore the content of the commentary in the last part of the exercise. It felt so insistent. Without the commentary I had less investment in the result, even though I didn’t really mind who won I became more invested when the commentary was on. The action went on regardless of whether there was any commentary, and the commentary didn’t change what happened.

Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?

No the game goes on, stops now and again and continues with or without the commentary. The commentary creates stories about what is happening it isn’t what is actually happening.

And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

No, probably not. Well it can’t be. I wonder what makes me believe it is? I must fall for my own stories. Still looking into this.

Notice this inner narration as often as you can for today.
What is it that you can discover about it? What do you notice?

I notice that it is going on most of the time, and is usually sort of in the background like a fixture that remains unchallenged. It can be about present experience or past or future. Judgements come with the narration, and the stories change depending on which interpretation is being favoured by them.

Does the comment influence the game? Does it do it at all?

No the comment is very clever after the event, or sometimes even before it, but what happens happens regardless of the comments.

How about the comment commenting on Keith’s every move?

It seems that this is the same. I need to do some more looking as it hasn’t been fully seen yet. Something about the illusion of control.

Keith

[Vivien]

Hi Keith,

The action went on regardless of whether there was any commentary, and the commentary didn’t change what happened.

Exactly. Just as experience/reality goes on regardless of thought commentaries.

The commentary creates stories about what is happening it isn’t what is actually happening.

Yes. It’s the same with thoughts. Thoughts comment on things and ADD a lots of stories which actually don’t happen. Can you see this?

V: And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

K: No, probably not. Well it can’t be. I wonder what makes me believe it is? I must fall for my own stories. Still looking into this.

Is there Keith/I separate from the thought commentary?

Or Keith/I is nothing else than a thought commentary, something ADDED, which isn’t there in reality, on what is happening?

Is there anything to Keith/I than an ADDED thought?

V: How about the comment commenting on Keith’s every move?

K: It seems that this is the same. I need to do some more looking as it hasn’t been fully seen yet.

Yes, please do so and let me know what you find.

Vivien

[Purpleturtle]

Hi Vivien,

Yes. It’s the same with thoughts. Thoughts comment on things and ADD a lots of stories which actually don’t happen. Can you see this?

Yes, I can see this, and when they tell a story about something that does happen they claim they did it. For example if I think “Let’s have a cup of coffee” and I then get up to make a cup of coffee, thoughts arise that the thought did it. When I am on my own I sometimes say: “Let’s have a cup of coffee!” out loud, which is a bit weird.

Is there Keith/I separate from the thought commentary?

I am still looking into this. Sometimes the thought arises “I can’t do this looking” which is another thought/story so I keep looking. The sensation in the forehead returns often when I inquire where is this “I”. Strange because I know that it is just a sensation.

Or Keith/I is nothing else than a thought commentary, something ADDED, which isn’t there in reality, on what is happening?

I haven’t SEEN this yet.

Is there anything to Keith/I than an ADDED thought?

Not as far as I can tell.

V: How about the comment commenting on Keith’s every move?
K: It seems that this is the same. I need to do some more looking as it hasn’t been fully seen yet.
Yes, please do so and let me know what you find.

Still looking. With the internal commentary the thought can “lead to” an action in a way that the football commentary doesn’t. For example “Let’s have a cup of coffee” and then I get up and make one. I put “lead to” in inverted commas because I am not certain that the thought actually creates or causes the action. It does seem like that though (and I hesitate to use the words seem like because I guess you will say that is just more thoughts, and you might be correct).

Keith

[Vivien]

Hi Keith,

I am still looking into this. Sometimes the thought arises “I can’t do this looking” which is another thought/story so I keep looking. The sensation in the forehead returns often when I inquire where is this “I”. Strange because I know that it is just a sensation.

Yes it returns, since you spent most of your life believing that sensation in the forehead is ME.
Every time when it seems that sensation is me, stop and investigate. This inquiry is about continuous repeating. Looking at and seeing the same thing again and again is what undoes the belief.

V: Or Keith/I is nothing else than a thought commentary, something ADDED, which isn’t there in reality, on what is happening?

K: I haven’t SEEN this yet.

But have you checked in experience? Again and again and again? Hundreds of times?

Aim for looking at this as often as possible.

V: Is there anything to Keith/I than an ADDED thought?

K: Not as far as I can tell.

Isn’t this contradicting your above statement that you haven’t seen this?

For example “Let’s have a cup of coffee” and then I get up and make one. I put “lead to” in inverted commas because I am not certain that the thought actually creates or causes the action.}

Let’s look into it.

How could a thought cause an action? How would make it happen? Is that even possible?

Or only another thought comments that since action followed a thought, it MUST be the cause of the action?

To state that there is an actual link between a thought and an action, first you have to actually find the link, not just base your statement on analysis = thoughts.

If it's true find it, but you cannot find it, since it's nothing but speculation, right?

We are after indisputable experiences, claims about what may be is not sufficient.

Vivien

[Purpleturtle]

Hi Vivien,

But have you checked in experience? Again and again and again? Hundreds of times?

I haven’t counted. Obviously not enough yet. I continue to check.

Isn’t this contradicting your above statement that you haven’t seen this?

When I wrote “not as far as I can tell” I meant to convey that although I haven’t found anything to Keith other than an added thought. I am not yet convinced by this not having found anything.

How could a thought cause an action? How would make it happen? Is that even possible?

I have been doing the exercise of resting my hands on a table, and observing a hand being raised. What I notice is that thinking of a hand raising does not necessarily raise a hand, but without a thought of raising a hand no hand is raised.

How could a thought cause an action? How would make it happen? Is that even possible?

When a thought precedes an action the action is intended. When no thought precedes an action is accidental. The door thought does not cause the action. It sets the scene for it.

If it's true find it, but you cannot find it, since it's nothing but speculation, right?

I continue looking.

Keith

[Vivien]

Hi Keith,

When I wrote “not as far as I can tell” I meant to convey that although I haven’t found anything to Keith other than an added thought. I am not yet convinced by this not having found anything.

So this uncertainty is there because you are not seeing that what it is that is MISTAKEN for a self.

The me/I/self CAN be found, just not in a way one would think so.
There is something(s) here in experience, which is real and experiencable, and is mistaken for a self. So it’s not simply about not being able to find a self, but also to see what it is that is mistaken for a self.

So you have to find the things/experiences that is mistaken for a self.

So just sit down, and notice how the seeming self appears.
Where does it seems to be?

Look for the things/experiences that are mistaken for a self. The things that SEEMS to be a self. And then focus on it, and notice what is actually there. So get to know that it is exactly that you mistake and misperceive for a me.

Vivien

[Purpleturtle]

Hi Vivien,
Thank you for this it is most helpful. I am continuing to look into whenever, and however this sense of me/I comes up, or whenever I remember (whoever or whatever that is).
Keith

[Purpleturtle]

Hi Vivien,
I have been continuing to look, using the pointers you have given me, and I have been having some reactions to looking, which I am also looking at.

So just sit down, and notice how the seeming self appears.
Where does it seems to be?

Where I notice the seeming self is in the pressure between my eyes which I mentioned before, and in thoughts not just the content of thoughts but something about their feel or quality. I had an interesting experience the other morning. I was lying in bed, awake but not fully so, and with my eyes closed. Out of the purplish blackness behind my eyelids an image of a forest appeared spontaneously. It was small at first and round and self illuminated with yellow and green and brown colours. At the same time I was aware of thoughts arising, but these thoughts did not have “my voice” and therefore did not seem to be “my” thoughts. I experienced them as my father’s voice. This was unusual for me as I habitually label thoughts as mine or even me.

Keith

[Vivien]

Hi Keith,

Out of the purplish blackness behind my eyelids an image of a forest appeared spontaneously. It was small at first and round and self illuminated with yellow and green and brown colours. At the same time I was aware of thoughts arising, but these thoughts did not have “my voice” and therefore did not seem to be “my” thoughts. I experienced them as my father’s voice. This was unusual for me as I habitually label thoughts as mine or even me.

This is true for all thoughts. So what happened here is that the identification with this visual thought wasn’t there, since the thought was observed.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to observe and become aware of all thoughts. The first thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts, be they words, mental images or snippets of music etc, but don’t engage with any of them. If you find yourself engaging with thoughts, just gently bring your attention to observing each thought.

When I ask you to look for the gap, the purpose of that looking is to slow thoughts down, as thoughts can be like a machine gun and fire a multitude of thoughts, one after the other and be very noisy, subtle, chaotic or calm. The objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you are sitting with eyes closed and all that is seen is the ‘blackness behind the eyes”. A thought might arise “oh look, there is a red glow appearing in the darkness behind my eyes” or “it feels strange sitting here watching for thoughts” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” – whatever thought is appearing.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought arises.

This is how to observe your thoughts:

- Watch how each thought arises and subsides
- Watch and observe the gap (be it a short subtle gap or a long gap) between each thought
- Notice how the current thought is passing,
- And watch and wait for the next thought to arise/appear.

At the end, please write me how did you go observing each thought as it arose, and observing the gap between thoughts when sitting silently?

I would like you to also apply this observation of thought throughout your waking day. Try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. This helps you to see each thought as it appears. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice?


Note: You’ve been seeking for quite a lot of time, so I thought to mention to you that I do face-to-face sessions too, which is a different experience then doing in a written format. I’m going to send you a private message about it to see if you are interested.

Vivien

[Purpleturtle]

Hi Vivien,

At the end, please write me how did you go observing each thought as it arose, and observing the gap between thoughts when sitting silently?

While sitting and observing thoughts keep coming, including thoughts about observing thoughts. There can be an infinite regression of thoughts about thoughts about thoughts etc. It wasn’t so easy to notice the gaps between thoughts. They were often fleeting, sometimes a bit longer and then more peaceful feelings arose. Thoughts could be quite obsessive, counting in some form or other, rerunning a story on a loop. Some thoughts arose as pictures, moving images, most were words.

Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice?

It was more difficult to remember to observe thoughts throughout the day. The quality of the thoughts when I did notice was similar to when sitting, but the gaps were less apparent. The obsessive quality was still there, and also thoughts that appeared as images. The story telling and counting seem to be ways of trying to tie thoughts together to make order.

I don’t think that I have received the private message from you, and I would be interested in working with you face-to-face.

Keith

[Vivien]

Hi Keith,

Please spend a few more day with observing thoughts. Observation is a very helpful tool to see if it’s you who is thinking thoughts, or thoughts happen totally unbidden, on their own.

I sent you private message, it should be in your inbox. You can access that from a ‘Private messages’ link on the right upper corner of the page, under big word ‘GATE’.

But I’m going to send it to you through email too.

Vivien