The Gate

Hello Ado,

What a beautiful post to read! Thank you for sharing this with me!

There has been a shift in perception where thoughts just can't be believed anymore which is just phenomenal. Thank you so much for your guidance and commitment up to today.I'm very grateful. I know I've lots more work to do but there are profound shifts in perception happening and I'm going to keep following through with the looking and investigating.

YAY! This is quite a milestone in realising there is no separate self. Not believing thoughts anymore is a major shift. Thoughts and emotions will continue to appear, as will thoughts and thought stories about a me...but these thoughts are seen for what they are....stories and no longer have the stickiness they use to have! Congratulations!

I look forward to your next post.

With love,
Kay

Hi Kay,

Apologies for the delay in posting. I've had a few really busy days and have hit a bit of a wall physically but I'll get something to you by tomorrow at the latest. Thanks for your patience.

All the best

Ado

Kay,

Here are my responses.

And why should you be feeling lots of grief and sadness and loss? Why not joy, freedom and relief? Have you really sat with it and just noticed what feelings appear instead of the idea of what SHOULD be felt

?

As I mentioned in my last post there was a beautiful sense of joy and freedom noticed and lots of tears of pure joy. Of course the sense of joy felt being in the experience itself is so liberating.

Really, and how does a link actually feel

?

It doesn't because there is no link only thought telling me there is. Thoughts sensations and feelings all just appear in experience with no connection or link at all.

How

about you sit with the exercise and LOOK and see what is being pointed at. When you pay attention to the sensation only…what happens? When you pay attention to thoughts only…what happens? Are you aware of both at the same time?

Yes they are both just there in experience with neither having anymore weight or importance than the other no matter which one is being focused on at any particular time….it is only thought that will tell me differently.

Okay, so each time you LOOK, you see that there is an absence of a separate self. What more are you looking for…ie what more do you want

?

As I mentioned in my post from a few days ago I'm beginning to see through the absence of a separate self more and more as the days go on. The illusion of a separate self was clearly seen last weekend and for a couple of days afterwards. It is not quite as intense the last few days and thoughts are coming in quite a bit more but they just aren't sticking anywhere near as much. One of my Achilles heals has been putting on weight and body image and even thoughts around that aren't sticking much either it's as if thought has lost most of it's power. Thoughts are just thoughts and nothing else.
It was noticed over the last few days when the body was physically exhausted that the old habit of entertaining negative thoughts came to the fore. And again they were noticed as thoughts and nothing else and once the body was rested thoughts seemed to happen more in the background than foreground.

All the best.

Ado

Hey Ado,

Really, and how does a link actually feel?

It doesn't because there is no link only thought telling me there is. Thoughts sensations and feelings all just appear in experience with no connection or link at all.

Nice :)

How about you sit with the exercise and LOOK and see what is being pointed at. When you pay attention to the sensation only…what happens? When you pay attention to thoughts only…what happens? Are you aware of both at the same time?

Yes they are both just there in experience with neither having anymore weight or importance than the other no matter which one is being focused on at any particular time….it is only thought that will tell me differently.

Yes, focus is on either one or the other. Try and focus on both at the one time and see what happens!

Okay, so each time you LOOK, you see that there is an absence of a separate self. What more are you looking for…ie what more do you want?

As I mentioned in my post from a few days ago I'm beginning to see through the absence of a separate self more and more as the days go on. The illusion of a separate self was clearly seen last weekend and for a couple of days afterwards. It is not quite as intense the last few days and thoughts are coming in quite a bit more but they just aren't sticking anywhere near as much. One of my Achilles heals has been putting on weight and body image and even thoughts around that aren't sticking much either it's as if thought has lost most of it's power. Thoughts are just thoughts and nothing else.

Lovely Ado! It is wonderful that you have actually realised the absence of a separate self! Keep the LOOKING up. You are also aware of emotions, patterns etc and you know how to look at them and to stay with the sensations. You have done an absolutely amazing job of LOOKING even through some challenging experiences. You have stuck with this exploration against all the obstacles that arose whilst doing it, which showed your burning desire to see! I am so happy that you have.

With regards to thought, I think I have mentioned before…thoughts are not as thought describes itself. A thought isn't known because of its appearance or its content...it is known because it is THIS/experience and THIS is self aware.

It was noticed over the last few days when the body was physically exhausted that the old habit of entertaining negative thoughts came to the fore. And again they were noticed as thoughts and nothing else and once the body was rested thoughts seemed to happen more in the background than foreground.

Yes...tiredness seems to be a time when extra diligence is needed. It is great that you noticed this.

Can you answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

With love,
Kay

Hi Kay,

I'm working two long days Saturday and Sunday so I won't get to post anything till Monday at the earliest.

All the best

Ado

Thank you Ado for letting me know.

Kay

Hi Kay,

I've had a really busy couple of days in work the last few days and the body is shattered. I'll do my best to answer your questions honestly.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

F

or a very long time up until I started this investigation with you it was taken for granted as absolute fact that I was my body and mind. The identity of likes and dislikes characteristics and idiosyncrasies created by thought was thought to be who I am. I have since found through all the questions and exercises done with you Kay that that whole separate self was purely a figment of my imagination and nothing more. So no there was no separate self to be found anywhere. There never was a separate self except an illusory self I me created by thought and the conditioning of my parents surrounding and accepted social norms.

2)

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

From my own understanding and experience the illusion of a separate self comes about and is created by thought in response to the conditioning from my parents. As a young infant I was totally dependant on my parents to provide food shelter and security. They gave me a name Ado and told me I was their son and they were my mother and father. From my understanding the illusion of a separate self begins to form from about 18 months onwards and is set in stone from about 3 years of age onwards. I suppose around 18 months was around the time the first I thought was noticed. This then was built on and constantly reinforced by my parents, caregivers and the wider circle of family, friends and society in general.
I have been told by my mother that I used to sit for hours if an overturned pot in my Grandmother's yard in Kerry and watch her chickens. I was probably 3 to 5 yrs old. I do vaguely remember this and I have had a strong connection with animals ever since particularly horses.
This illusory self has been developed over the years and there has been identification with various aspects of it. For example I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict and has a strong identification with that particularly after getting sober 23 yrs ago. In AA meetings I introduce myself by saying I'm Ado and I'm an alcoholic. I can see now that this body did become addicted to alcohol and drugs and I can never drink safely again but I can also see that that identification is still only part of the illusory self.
I was always into sport and fitness swimming competitively. cycle racing and more recently riding out racehorses. There has always been a strong identification with my body and really liking feeling fit and strong and also enjoying the sexual attention I would get from having a lean fit body. I also get told a lot that I'm handsome and good looking. This was latched onto by the illusory self because it liked the attention. On the other side of that coin I have put on a good few pounds through comfort eating since myself and my wife separated and the egoic illusory self does not like that one bit since it judges itself purely on the outside image and what others think of him.
All this identification with the illusory self has caused so much unnecessary suffering going from loving the attention of applause from the audience when a music gig goes well to the crushing lows of perceived rejection from a trusted friend or lover.

3)

How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels great to see this and as I said last weekend with my friend Liam, who woke up a year ago, there was a major shift in perception. The illusory self was clearly seen through and there was a very deep stillness and a lot of tears and joyful emotion and peace. For about the next 48 hours thoughts were barely perceptible in the background and there was just experience. This has faded somewhat but thoughts still just aren't sticking as much and are being seen through much more easily. I have been very busy with work and am also organising an auctioneer to help my mother sell a small field that belonged to my father. I'm seeing how important self care is as negative thoughts seem to increase exponentially the more tired the body is.
The main difference from before I started this investigation and now is that while there hasn't been a huge explosion or lightbulb moment there is no believing the thoughts anymore. There has been some phenomenal moments of experience last weekend and also a number of weeks ago in the restaurant where there was just pure joy and peace. The predominant sense is that of not giving a hoot about anything and that is incredibly freeing.

I'll post this for now and I'll post my responses to the last two questions later today or tomorrow.

All the best

Ado

Hi Kay,

Thanks a million for being so patient with me. I have had a very busy week and am heading into nights now till Monday morning and then will be moving into my new house in Clonakilty so its going to be a very intense few weeks but hopefully things will settle down a lot then. There will be a lot less driving as I’ll only be 15 mins walk from the girls house instead of a 35 min drive which is going to be so much less stressful for everyone involved. It feels like things are really falling into place. That all being said I’m going to really miss my retreat in the country as this is where I have been able to do some great work with self inquiry and the LU work.
I’m kind of slow to say it but the suffering seems to have disappeared as there is now nobody to be suffering which is mind blowing. I keep waiting for the old negative voice to start putting me down and its just not there and there is just a serious calmness around. I spent the weekend in Bray with my Mum and girls and it was the most relaxing weekend I’ve spent with them since the separation. My eldest girl Ailbhe who has been suffering from OCD the last 18 months and she was totally relaxed this weekend and displayed very little OCD behaviours which blew my mind and I’m convinced that is hugely down to the fact that I’m so relaxed and chilled out. Anyway back to the questions.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

I’m not 100% sure but I think it was you pushing me and not taking any shit from me. Anytime I seemed to make the most progress or had the biggest insights where when you gave me a bit of the Zen stick which I really needed and am very grateful for. I think to be specific about it you had mentioned in one of your previous posts you pushed me into putting the insights that I had into action. That just seemed to flick a switch in my head metaphorically speaking and it began to dawn on me that I had all the tools I needed to make that last push over the line. Also a very important factor was that Liam a great friend of mine who had a major awakening over a year ago and I think being in his presence seemed to facilitate me in getting over the edge and seeing through the illusion of self. I just noticed all of a sudden there was an amazing stillness emanating from Liam and that almost gave me permission to access the stillness that I had been experiencing more and more in that last few months. Anyhow that same stillness came from a very deep place within which I now know was the stillness that we all are and is part of everything there is. With this insight an incredible joy bubbled up and with it came lots of tears and I just couldn’t speak. There was also noticed some resistance which was quickly seen for being a thought about resistance and nothing at all. The joy was so beautiful and overwhelming and felt so true and real to be in touch with the truth and knowing. The sense of stillness stayed with me well in the next 3 or 4 days. It was so powerful and it was seen that this is the knowing stillness from which everything emanates and that it is there 100% of the time. The intensity of that stillness has lessened in intensity but it is still there and is easily accessible. What has stayed is the freedom of seeing through the illusion of no self which is incredible. The thought stream of negatively which has been me constant companion since forever is no longer there. Acclimatising to this new reality has been beautiful and very freeing. I do still notice the odd thought of ‘this is too good to be true and the bubble is going to burst soon’, but up to today it hasn’t and I can see that that false self that I had taken for who I was was just an illusion and nothing else and now that it has been seen I can see that it can’t be unseen. That is very reassuring and all that being said I can see that there is a lot more to come and I intend to keep the looking up and would appreciate any suggestions you may have to further the looking.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

As one of the videos you shared with me a while ago showed that there is no one making a decision or choice, or having free will or has any control. These so called decisions are already made 5 or 6 seconds before the brain realises it and then it tries to claim that it has made the decision in retrospect. The best recent example I can think of is my house hunting experience. I have been looking for a more suitable home to rent nearer my girls in Clonakilty. I’m currently living a good 30 mins drive away and it has caused a lot of stress over the last 10 months. While I had not liked the house I’m in currently as it was a bit damp and quite isolated I had really began to like it and has resigned myself to staying here for another winter. The house is in a beautiful setting and the stillness and proximity to nature makes it very appealing and I really like that. Anyhow I had still been looking for houses on various app on my phone and had also called by a local estate agent that I had good dealings with before but as I say I had totally let go of finding somewhere in Clonakilty this year. Then last Monday week I got a call from the estate agents office asking me if I’d like to view a 3 bed house that had just come up in Clon. I went to see it with the girls and it was a lovely place ideally located only 15 mins walk from the girls mothers house. They told me that they were keeping the property off line and I was only one of 3 people being shown the house ( if they put it up online they would have had at least 50 people queueing up to view it). When I hadn’t heard from the estate agent for 2 days I had totally let go of the house and presumed I hadn’t got it and then I rang on Friday morning to be told that it was mine and that the estate agent had fought my case since they know me and knew I’d be a good reliable tenant. It was a classic case of completely letting go of the outcome and not trying to control it as I would have done in the past. I Being a recovering alcoholic/addict my tendency in the past has been to be obsessive and controlling in these types of situations by ringing and hassling the estate agent and I took the completely opposite tack which is I can see now the only tack to take as nothing is controllable anyhow. Things just happen and there is no control at all. I notice that I’m far less reactive in situations particularly with my family .daughters ex wife mother and sister. How can one react to anything when there is no one there to be reacting. I don’t know if anything makes things happen don’t they just happen generally as part of experience. The false self thinks it has control and has free will but really that is just an illusion when that is seen through there is just experience and nothing else.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

The false self would say I’m responsible for my actions and words that come out of my mouth etc etc...but when this is seen through and there is just experience how can there be responsibility. Being in experience things just happen the way they are supposed to. Work gets done children get fed cars get driven all these things just happen and when there is no ‘one’ getting in the way of experience the flow of life happens all by itself. I can drive 50 mins into my workplace without having a single thought cos it is all part of experience with no need for thought or analysing. Its similar to swimming in Lough Hyne which I did the last two evenings. It just happens I don’t need to tell myself when to breath the body just breathes when it needs to. I don’t need to tell myself which keys to press to spell each word. I can touch type without even looking at the keyboard as it is all just experience.

6) Anything to add?

Nothing really except to say thank you for all your support and encouragement and for knowing when to be supportive and when to use the Zen stick which I really needed at times and as I’ve already mentioned were the moments of my greatest learning. Any advice on where to go from here would be great. And keep up the good work. As I mentioned another friend of mine has been in touch re wanting to start the process with LU and I suggested he register with LU get in contact with you. Again thank you so much the work you are doing is so important and valuable.

All the best

Ado

Hello Ado,

Lovely to receive your responses to the final parts of the questions. I just loved reading them all and am so happy that you have had the realisation and that suffering has disappeared. You have come a long way from when we first started and I loved walking with you to the Gateless Gate. I am going to ask other guides to have a look at your thread. Now they may have further questions for you for clarity purposes...and this is to ensure that my guiding/pointing is clear. It may take them a couple of days to get back to me. When I hear from them I will let you know and pass on any questions, if they have any.

Moving is such a chaotic time, but I trust you have all the tools in your tool belt and your tool belt is at the front of your mind! (smiling) It was lovely to hear about Ailbhe and your weekend with your mum and girls. Again...you have come such a long way....it's mind blowing :)

Talk to you soon.

With much love,
Kay

Hey Ado,

Congratulations, and welcome through the Gateless Gate! There are no further questions for you.

Keep an eye out for an email notification notifying you of a PM (private message) from the forum inviting you to join our aftercare groups on Facebook. If you don't receive an email notification, you can access your PM's from the forum once you have logged in. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your username, on the forum, will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions etc, via the forums PM system, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

Love, Kay

Hi Kay,

Thank you so much for your help and guidance I'm very grateful to you.

All the best

Ado

Hi Kay,

Just to let you know that I sent you a private message yesterday. Hope you are well.

All the best

Ado

Hey Ado...I didn't receive it. Can you check to make sure that you actually sent it. If you did it should be in your 'sent' box and resend it please.

Kay