The Gate

Nina,

Do you have some more questions?
Or anything to add?

The reason I'm slightly confused is, when this process began (I think), it was extremely chaotic and painful - severe depression, emptiness, panic attacks etc., along with all the other weird occurrences I discussed in a previous post (although I know none of that is directly related to awakening). It was exactly the kind of chaos that Jed McKenna describes in his books as what happens when one goes through this process. However, since continuing my search on this forum, there hasn't been any of that whatsoever. I'm certainly glad of it, but it also feels too easy, like something must be missing because of it. There were also things that he says are part of the process, such as the letting go of resistance, which I haven't experienced. I also read it described as something very final, like 'when you realise there's no self, you will know for sure' kind of thing, and as something that cannot be unseen, but I think I could never look at any of this again and just carry on being 'me' if I wanted. Overall, I still feel very much like 'me', but can see that everything is happening on its own whenever I think to look.

At the same time I don't think I have any questions left, and am ready to answer the final questions.


Beanstalk

Dear Beanstalk,

There are as many ways of expression as there are beings on the planet.
It is never a good idea to compare ones experience with others…
The very own experience is unique – and jet it has a common ground shared by all.
If it would be otherwise, how could a forum like this work?

What is struggle actually?
And who is the one struggling?

Once the answer is clear the struggle is no longer needed.

Too easy?
Don’t worry. The game is not over.
Seeing no self is a very important step.
However:
Depression, panic attacks, physical pains, tics - are still likely to happen.
All these are just part of life.
Same with anger, fear, and the whole range of emotional ups and downs – they are coming and going.

But now you can face all this in a different mode, with a different attitude:
Is is MY anger, or is it just anger?
Is it MY fear, or is it just fear?
Is it MY tic, or is it just a tic?

This has to be faced, in the very moment it happens.
When it happens, it happens.
And then again it is over and something else might come, or nothing, or no change.
Whatever.
It’s a great ride and it can be fun!
Learn to laugh at it.
Even in the midst of chaos and pain.

So then;

Here are the final questions.
Take your time to answer them, one by one, referring to direct experience only:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
What makes things happen?
How does it work?
What are you responsible for?
Give examples from experience.


6) Anything to add?


Warmly

nina

Nina,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No and no

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is just thought(s) that relate to a separate self, and that's all it can ever be because there's nothing else it could be. There's nowhere for a separate self to actually exist in direct experience. It is the identification with different parts of experience and the belief that there is a me doing human functions. But in direct experience there is no do-er to be found, just everything happening on its own and thoughts relating to a do-er. It starts as soon as the identification occurs with the body and it functions. but they are all happening on their own. there is no me that could interfere with them, no separate self that either does or does not exist. in reality, then, not much is different, because the idea of 'me' that has been seen as fiction was only ever an idea anyway - what is, is not really affected by this realisation because there was nothing to affect it to begin with.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

it doesn't feel any different really. I still feel like a human being, still do everything the same way, but when I remember to look I am reminded there is no 'me'. I have a greater understanding of the absence of self, which basically just means I've come to accept how simple it really is, and understood the statement 'there is no you' at its most literal instead of trying to see a no-self, which cannot be done.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

the very last bit was caused by questioning 'but why does it feel so much like there is a me doing it?', forcing me to look at the 'sense of me' and notice it as just a thought itself. however overall there wasn't a 'last bit' as such, just a very gradual deepening of my understanding of the simplicity of the whole thing. it was more like a removing of 'wrong-seeing' than a growing or developing in any way. for example, my mind had trouble accepting that direct experience remained exactly as it was, and the only difference was the thought that there was a me involved in it, is seen as a thought. mind always wanted to add something on top of it, and there were a few times I felt like mind-garbage was removed and I understood on a deeper level there was nothing to see.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
What makes things happen?
How does it work?
What are you responsible for?
Give examples from experience.

there is nothing in direct experience that 'makes things happen', and no me that is responsible. There is only the experience of whatever is happening. for example, if I lift my hand, there is the image of the hand lifting, sensation labelled 'hand on table' or whatever, sound also labelled something similar, and then thought/belief about a me that's responsible for it. There is also awareness of the movement just before it happens, which appears to be a decision. but really this is just more thought, which isn't really connected to the movement itself, and isn't making the decision, but rather just occurring like everything else. So there's no-one to make decisions or have any control over anything.

6) Anything to add?

Only thank you so much for all your help and patience over this time! I don't think I would've been able to do this on my own. So it is really appreciated.


Beanstalk

Dear Beanstalk,

thanks for the answers of the final questions.
I'm going to show them to other guides and maybe they'll have further questions.
Would you like anything to add before me doing so?

Warmly

nina

Nina,

No, nothing to add.

Beanstalk

Dear Beanstalk,

there are no further questions from other guides.
( :
Have a look at your PM's (private message).
You will also be invited to the facebook groups where questions can be asked, further looking etc.
Your name has turned to blue.

All the best!

Warmly

nina

Dear Beanstalk,

there are no further questions from other guides.
( :
Have a look at your PM's (private message).
You will also be invited to the facebook groups where questions can be asked, further looking etc.
Your name has turned to blue.

All the best!

Warmly

nina

Nina,

Okay cool. Thanks again for all your help and all the best to you too!

Beanstalk