seeing not just intellectualizing

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

i want to use every minute i have to figure out the best choice.

Do you think that this gives you a feeling of being in control ?

So i dont want to focus on the here and now when i have "decissions" to make.

Does this mean that you don't trust that the decisions will happen anyway ?
So, you haven't seen this happen yet. Is that right ?

I have smiled and the same thing happened i was brought back to the present moment.

This won't stop decisions from happening.

I applyed to the program out of panik and because it has musik in it, and because of my grades,

Do you recognize these as conditions that contributed ?
Do you imagine that there were other conditions also involved ?

still watching this thing it will be interesting to see if i learn anything.

Yes, discovery is interesting.

trying to find the shark.. nothing yet

Ok. Without focussing on outcomes, just keep looking and experimenting with different ways of looking at the image.

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hey.


Sorry but i feel really terrible no matter what i do. Im terrifyed if making any moves no matter how much i think and rationalize and talk to ppl. I guess this is a huge change for me and i dont feel safe.

I will reply later

/T

[vinceschubert]

Hey.


Sorry but i feel really terrible no matter what i do. Im terrifyed if making any moves no matter how much i think and rationalize and talk to ppl. I guess this is a huge change for me and i dont feel safe.

I will reply later

/T

This is important. Don’t try and escape the fear (or have any expectations about it). Resisting it will only strengthen it. Put your focus into noticing what sensations you are experiencing, And where you are experiencing them.

Your fear is your friend it is trying to protect you. In this case it is inappropriate as you don’t need protection.

Love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hi


[quoteThis is important. Don’t try and escape the fear (or have any expectations about it). Resisting it will only strengthen it. Put your focus into noticing what sensations you are experiencing, And where you are experiencing them.] [/quote]


Well i didnt excape it i was watching it an definetly FEELING it. I did get lost in it sometime.
The sensation was a lot in my stommach. A lot of pain there, i usually dont have stressrelated problems with my stommach. The wierd thing is im great in REAL alarming, lifethretening situations. That i can deal with and stay calm. But this is all imagened, its about lifechoice and direction and dessision, and prefferenses and future. I do feel a bit insane to be honest worrying so much over something that is not really of any real harm or danger. I could always change ny mind if i dont like school and do something ells yet i feelt like i needed to decide NOW and i was super stressed over it. The dessision came as you said. Some things were circumstaciall - some jobs i didnt get, and somethings were me talking to the ppl that explaned why this is a good idea. I was offered a pretty fun job yesterday and i dont really have to rush finding a job or studying i could uv taken my time with either one of the two. So i dont know, i saw some factors that contributed to my apparent decision like the books i bough (but they could all be undone, i could return the books). So it still looks like to me that i decided to go to study.

[tissetatten]

Hi

Do you think that this gives you a feeling of being in control ?

Yes. It does.

Does this mean that you don't trust that the decisions will happen anyway ?
So, you haven't seen this happen yet. Is that right ?

Well the will happen. Someone will make them for me if not "i". But when a school is waiting for you to reply what do you do? Throw dice? Flip a coin? So no i dont see it. I saw a few circumastatial things like some jobbs i didnt get but nothing that made it look like this was the only choice i had. It always seemed like i could of made another choice. To wait, to keep looking for a job, to maybe apply to anouther course and start later. It still felt like i had opptions

Do you recognize these as conditions that contributed ?
Do you imagine that there were other conditions also involved ?

No this i see as conditions. This is clear. But not the one i responded to before this one.


Thank

/T

[vinceschubert]

Hi T, have a look at this video; https://vimeo.com/90101368

v

[tissetatten]

Hi

I dont know if something went wrong. Iv gotten your notifications but when i ooen the sight i cant find anything new? Just the stuff iv already replyed to.


/T

[tissetatten]

Ah i found it.
A video.
Going to check

[tissetatten]

Ok saw the video..

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

but nothing that made it look like this was the only choice i had. It always seemed like i could of made another choice.

Of course, it will always seem like you had other choices. The fact is though, that for a different outcome (choice) to have occurred, at least one of the conditions that led to what happened, would have had to be different.
..and they weren't. So the outcome that happened was the only one possible.
The mind will say that it could have changed a necessary condition, and certainly it could have, but it didn't.
So to say that it could have, or should have, been different, is a moot point.
To say that a decision not yet made, is a choice that a self makes, is to ignore that many of the conditions that will contribute to it, are conditions that are outside the personal influence of anybody.
We are not saying that any particular choice is inevitable. Conditions are fluid. They are constantly changing, so any choice that does arise is dependent on the circumstances at the time it happens.

It still felt like i had options

Of course, the mind will resist with a vengeance, anything that might suggest that it is not in control.
This brings us to the video. Did it change your ideas about free will at all ?


love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hi

This brings us to the video. Did it change your ideas about free will at all ?

No the video didnt change anything for me. Ok so the subconcious or unconcious or whatever mind knows the answer a few seconds before the concious mind does.

I could still choose not to go to class tomorrow.
(At least thats hoe it feels at the moment)

/T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening T,

Ok so the subconcious or unconcious or whatever mind knows the answer a few seconds before the concious mind does.

It's been a long time since i saw the video (so i'll have to have another look at it) but i remember thinking that it was the brain that had arrived at a decision as a result of considering the current circumstances (conditions), whereas you arrived at the mind as the instrument. (is there a difference ?)
Do you think that is it the conscious mind that claims ownership of decisions ?
Is the subconscious mind something that you experience ?
Is it more than a story ?

I could still choose not to go to class tomorrow.

The intention might arise to go, or not to go, but how often do you have an intention then do something completely different?

At least thats hoe it feels at the moment

Yes, and that's completely fine. This leaves options open, and allows more possibilities to surface. It is useful to feel this. ..but just because you feel it doesn't mean that a self will make a choice.
Just watch how it happens (with an open mind)
You will see the decision happen, seemingly by itself. No need for you to agonize over it.


love

vince

[tissetatten]

Hello..

i remember thinking that it was the brain that had arrived at a decision as a result of considering the current circumstances (conditions), whereas you arrived at the mind as the instrument. (is there a difference ?)

Well what is the brain really? Have you seen the scans of a man missing like 90% of his brain but hes functioning completle normal? He didnt even know his brain was missing untill he was an adoult? you can probably google it.
So no i dont think we know what the brain is or minds is.
If there the same or different. I dont.

Do you think that is it the conscious mind that claims ownership of decisions ?

Yes it claims but there are a lot of factors sometimes i dont even ķnow. Like today i just got up and did things in favour of studying. And now the dessision has been made to study (from my part anyway) thingsncan still come in the way beyond my controle ofcourse.

Is the subconscious mind something that you experience ?
Is it more than a story ?

Well i dont know. Lets say there is knowlege or a memory that i know i have been concious of before yet i cant recall it right now. I know by experiance that if i concentrate or give it sometime the information will come to me. Come from where? Were was it? The addic, retainer of all old experiances.

The intention might arise to go, or not to go, but how often do you have an intention then do something completely different?

Well this is completly different for me. I havet studied in a long time..

Just watch how it happens (with an open mind)
You will see the decision happen, seemingly by itself. No need for you to agonize over it.

Thats exactly wat happened this morning. I got up i made some calls i sent some messages i had made the dession to go study. There was no agonizeing about it.. it was just happening. Shure when i was sitten there in class (bored out of my mind) i was wondering what im i doing here, was this really a good choice. And then the day went on.


Love

T

[tissetatten]

Hello..

What do you think of this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6TZMr1HXM

[vinceschubert]

What do you think of this?

It was looking good there for a while, but as he came down off his high, things started to fall apart. Particularly at the end when he talked about the devil.
i can say that nobody that i have guided to awakening has had this reaction. (except when ingesting mushrooms or LSD)
That's not to say that it doesn't happen.
Most seekers go through a long period of introspection and investigation and so come to the point of awakening more gradually. Your 'journey' is much more typical.
The discoveries that 'break the camel's back' are hard won.
The need to pontificate usually isn't there in the beginning. (it comes and fades later)
The overwhelming feeling is how wonder full the ordinariness it. How could have it been missed. How it was always there.
Verbosity is usually absent, as words simply can't begin to describe the experiencing.
What do i think of it ?
It doesn't ring true to me. (i might well be wrong)
i think that he has taken something.
This is also the conclusion because people that i have seen awakening are way too involved in what is happening to them to even consider making a YouTube video.
i myself spent the day walking alone in wonder. i didn't want to talk to anybody. It was an effort to do so. (when i eventually did)

love

vince