The Gate

Hi Vikas,

Thanks for that. How about you sit with it for another week or so, then give a bit of a report about how life is going? It'd be good to make sure everything is working out. In the meantime, if you have any questions, doubts, confusions or frustrations, then please post.


Steve

hi Steve

i think one of your last comments is worth exploring.

Another thing that can happen is that an old concept "self" is replaced by a new concept "no self" and you end up in a bigger cage instead of being free

.

what would be the symptoms of this state?

Vikas,

Crossing the gate is to do with seeing through the gross part of the sense of self - the personal self. There are also more subtle senses of self that we don't expect to be seen through yet. One of those is the feeling that "you" are a subject looking at objects, including physical objects, the body, and thoughts.

We like to encourage people to resist conceptualizing what's left over when "self" is no longer believed. Instead, keep your mind open and let "this" be mysteriously whatever it is. For example, some teachers say "I am awareness" as a stepping stone. We're not so keen on that because the division between self and other will only have to be removed later. Better not to encourage it in the first place.

"No self" can be used as a form of spiritual bypassing. That's where the person uses the idea of not being a self to identify as an aloof witness and feel like life can't touch them. For me, the opposite has happened. "I" feel more connected with life because there is only joyful, painful, messy, difficult life - there's no thing observing it and standing apart from it.

Joey Lott had a good post about this recently (everything he writes is great stuff):

http://joeylott.com/no-self-misery/

Also Jeff Foster is big on this idea.


Steve

thanks Steve. I'll write back in a few days.

hi Steve

"No self" can be used as a form of spiritual bypassing. That's where the person uses the idea of not being a self to identify as an aloof witness and feel like life can't touch them.

this notion of "no self" is intriguing. Might I say, that I think I came into the LU process with my version of "no self".
Let me explain. I have reflected on my experience over the last 30 years or so.

As far back as I remember, I did not identify strongly with Identities. for instance, "i am a man" who has to behave a certain way. I rejected the traditional/societal expectation. "I am an Indian" and hence must have blind pride in everything it achieves. Somewhere inside I understood the negative outcomes of such identities and rejected them. (all good)

but the problem was that on a personal level, I started to create a world where "expectations from me" or more importantly "expectations I had from other people" were minimized. I started to treat life's ups and downs with equanimity. I wasn't easily offended (other peoples opinion couldn't hurt me). I was drawn to beliefs/teachings like "don't look for happiness in the external world", etc. I engaged in the world, yet lived detached at another level - as an aloof witness (of course, my thoughts didn't think i was aloof).

the outcome being i created a strong "no self". My thoughts/ego told me "i was good". that this was the best way to "lead a life".

Now I can see that the "no self" was just a protective mechanism.

hope this makes sense.

For me, the opposite has happened. "I" feel more connected with life because there is only joyful, painful, messy, difficult life - there's no thing observing it and standing apart from it.

Having seen thru the illusion of "no self", this is journey I am on. I feel joy, engagement with people, less worries, etc - like i mentioned in previous post

Vikas,

Yeah! Identifying as a nationality has always seemed odd to me, as if who you are is based on your address.

What you write is interesting and an important discovery. The self belief causes suffering so everyone develops protective mechanisms of one kind or another.
For me it was to know everything. The more information I knew, the safer I would be, so I thought.

When the controller of life and the one who needs to be protected from it are seen to be only imagined into existence, then life can only 'just be'. There is only this life, as it is, right now. No other reality is possible.

Then emotions can be truly felt, whether good or bad, because the fear of them has fallen away. True acceptance becomes possible.

Of course it takes a while for this to really sink in, and there will be plenty of doubt and confusion along the way.


Steve

hi Steve

I was at a social gathering yesterday and this time my experience was distinctively different to ones in the past.

in the past, in social settings, i participated mostly as an observer. I would listen to conversations or the watch the various activities, and i felt that they did not lack anything that could be enhanced by my input. I was comfortable being a passive participant. I would chime in once in an while, but mostly would let the conversation come to me as opposed to actively driving it. Naturally, i would spend time in thoughts: 2 steps in the future or in the past.

yesterday it was different. Hard to say whether it was totally a conscious effort or a natural behavior, but yesterday I was in the present moment, unaffected by thoughts. Making small talk :) ... I wasn't thinking, just enjoying the moment.

Vikas,

I just want to make sure you've really got it so we don't send you away unhappy. You're not showing the exuberance we often see, so the other guides and I are scratching our heads a bit. :) But then, neither did I. So that's helpful - thanks for that report.

If a friend asked you what the illusion of self was and how it worked, how would you describe it?


Steve

hi steve

no worries. no rush. am happy to sit in this state and report back or explore other avenues we haven't touched.

If a friend asked you what the illusion of self was and how it worked, how would you describe it?

I will talk about myself. Not generically. my self has/had two sides:
(1) I am good
(2) I am not special.
I am good because - i am a vegetarian, i don't hurt people, etc.

I am not special - so I should not identify irrationally as a man, indian, hindu, etc.
I am not special - so I don't need anything from anyone.
I am not special - so i won't offer my input.
i am not special - so i don't need the spotlight.

I think my ego is "split". in my observation of most other people, i think their ego is more prominently obvious.

for me the illusion of self was belief that I am good and I could be better. I was a unique personality that could be improved. I was an observer who could influence/change my behavior through reflection/thinking.

As to how it worked. I was drawn to beliefs that confirmed my sense of being "good". I started creating behaviors that were in line with "i am not special".

Vikas,

So that's a description of some things that you're not. Can you describe your true nature?


Steve

its easier to describe what it is not, as opposed to what it is.

my true nature is no different from other living things; but comparatively, possess an advanced machinery (cognitive mind, senses, thoughts, etc).

Vikas,

its easier to describe what it is not, as opposed to what it is.

Indeed. That was a trick question. The trouble is, there's a big gap between what you described as what you're not, and your indescribable true nature. What's in that gap is what I need to know about.

Could you dig deeper into the illusion of self and how it works for me?


Steve

hi steve

Could you dig deeper into the illusion of self and how it works for me?

the illusion of self is a construct of beliefs and behaviors. the self is developed in the mind via thoughts. the self builds from birth to some age when it is mostly formed. The function of the self is to make the person feel secure in a world that has already been divided (man, woman, race, country, mine, not mine, etc). The function of the self is to help the individual adhere to society's values.

Hi Vikas,

I'm just going to run this by my fellow guides. Like I said, we want to make sure we're giving you everything we can. They're mostly in Europe so we'll have to wait a few hours because of the timezone.


Steve

thanks Steve. Appreciate the diligence.