The Gate

Dear Terry,

can an 'I' be found anywhere in direct experience?

Don't answer quickly.

Please look again, hear again, touch again....


Much love,
Ghata

Without referring to thoughts or mental images, Is there a direct experience of a separate 'YOU' in these sensations, that is at the centre of doing, experiencing, controlling life ?

Ghata, this exercise just didn't make sense to me.

Without referring to thoughts, I can't find anything except sensory input. Even if there were a separate ME at the center of doing, experiencing, controlling life, I would not be able to identify it by looking at direct experience. Similarly without using thought, accessing my knowledge, I cannot identify any kind of control unit. For example I was just looking at a traffic signal box. Is it controlling my life? I doubt it, but I can't know for sure simply by direct experience. Is it controlling the traffic light? Referring to my knowledge base,I am pretty sure it does. But by looking at it, hearing it, touching it, I cannot know that, either.

It's like asking, "using only your sense of smell, can you find anything that is red?" I can keep smelling different things and asking myself if they are red. That is what this exercise seems like.

So after looking around, touching various things including my body, listening all around - I have not found a ME that is experience and doer. Only hardness, smoothness, squeaking, shininess, swallowing, green, bright white light, softness, aching, coolness, vibration, tensing, contact, motion, dryness, pressure ...

Dear Terry,

Without referring to thoughts, I can't find anything except sensory input.

Precisely :-). There is nothing but sensory input - and then there are thoughts.

Even if there were a separate ME at the center of doing, experiencing, controlling life, I would not be able to identify it by looking at direct experience.

Right. How can be said that there is a separate me if it cannot be experienced? It could only be the content of a thought - and the content of thought is a word, not a real thing.

Would anything change if a separate me would not be claimed?

Much love,
Ghata

How can be said that there is a separate me if it cannot be experienced?

How can it be said that there is a traffic signal controller if it cannot be experienced? It still seems to me that by your line of reasoning, we must conclude that we do not know about the existence of anything at all. How can it be said there is a sun when all we perceive is a bright light? Using observation, concepts, and thought, we concluded that the simplest explanation for the bright light is that there is a large hot body 93 million miles away from us. That is not direct experience. Using your line of reasoning, the sun and the traffic signal controller are no more real than the self.

I think your logic is flawed. What is most important is that, in the end, I found the exercise valuable. I have been holding the belief that some sort of ME-ness can be sensed. Examining these sensations, and also a myriad of other sensations, drives home the point that there is no ME-ness to be sensed. When I hold a strong intention to take into account only sensory input (not thoughts), it is clear that there is no ME-ness to be sensed. I spent about 2 hours checking many different sensory inputs by sight, hearing, and touch ... from sources apparently internal and sources apparently external ... there is no ME-ness. For each input, I'd ask, "Am I perceiving a Terry-controller?" and the answer was, "No, only hearing ... only coolness ... only contraction." That answer came immediately EXCEPT sometimes when checking a sensation inside the body near the throat area--then there was hesitation and the attention dwelled on the sensation, was drawn to it like a moth to a flame. Then the thought arose, "Well, let's get on with it -- is there a Terry-controller in the direct experience, or not?" Then the realization dawned that the attention was not solely on the sensation -- it was also on some kind of wordless thought. The attention would then focus purely on the sensation, and then the answer came, "No, no Terry-controller in this sensation ... only sensation."

Would anything change if a separate me would not be claimed?

My view of the world, my interpretation of events, would change, and who knows what would change as a result of that.

Living with Zarina after her passing through the gate has given me a direct experience that the personality does not change, emotions do not change, behavior does not change, life circumstances do not change, preferences do not change, most views do not change.

Dear Ghata -

Today I have been enjoying watching thoughts and noticing that they arise out of nowhere, and also how they refer everything that happens to "I".

More reviewing:

On 18 Mar you wrote:

Are you a 100 % certain that the 'I', the self doesn't exist? That there is no self controlling anything or attending to a self image? If not, where are unclarities or doubts?

I want to be 100% certain but still I am not. But I won't try to find the unclarities or doubts right now. All I can say is that when I read the question, the sensations in the throat arise and a thought arises, "Of course I exist!". This is different from when someone asks me if I'm 100% sure that Santa Claus exists.

On the same day:

when I am not mindful, I am still somewhat identified with my experience

You are not identified with experience. You are identified with the conceptual overlay of experience, thoughts.

I never replied directly to what you said. It seems true. This is consistent with how distracted I become when the thought arises, "Of course I exist!"

How do I become more identified with experience, less with thought?

On 22 March you wrote:

Today, when an unpleasant sensation comes up, stay with it. Feel the sensations. First there is a name. Go deeper, right to the sensations and fully experience them. Do not watch them. Really experience what it is to be anxious, angry...

I've been doing this more and more. Often, there is not a name. For example, just now anger arose, but the label "anger" did not arise, just engagement with the sensations. I've been escaping from such sensations less, distracting myself from them less. It's often vaguely unpleasant, but also satisfying.

You wrote later that day:

To me it seems that this is one of the crucial points that keeps you from looking directly: The fear of experiencing unpleasant sensations.

Perhaps. I've worked hard at experiencing unpleasant sensations over recent years, but there could still be a lot of fear. There is a certain variety of unpleasant sensation that I simply feel I cannot tolerate: it is an acute rage that arises when I hear somebody repeatedly chewing loudly or sniffling or the like. I recently learned there is a name for this: misophonia. For years I have tried, on occasion, to be present for this rage. 99% of the time I find it intolerable.

Going to cook dinner now with Zarina!

Love,
Terry

Dear Terry,

How do I become more identified with experience, less with thought?

There is no need to become identified with experience. Experiencing is there all the time. It is only in experiencing that the question can be solved: " Does the I exist or not?"

When turning to thoughts the clarity is lost. Turning to thoughts happens because there is wanting to know something for sure.

How can it be said that there is a traffic signal controller if it cannot be experienced? It still seems to me that by your line of reasoning, we must conclude that we do not know about the existence of anything at all.

This is ever so true. We do not know anything about existence. We do not even know whether anything exists at all. We only know that which is perceived. There is no knowing outside of perception. We even cannot know whether there is an objective world out there that is mirrored by perception. In fact, scientists tell us there isn't.

Using observation, concepts, and thought, we concluded that the simplest explanation for the bright light is that there is a large hot body 93 million miles away from us. That is not direct experience. Using your line of reasoning, the sun and the traffic signal controller are no more real than the self.

Right. The only thing that can be said is, light and warmth are experienced. "Sun" is the conceptual overlay.There are sensations in the throat. "Self" is the conceptual overlay.

Have the courage to not know. Have the courage to trust the sensual input, the only real experience there is. It is only in the realm of experiencing where the door to freedom can be found.

Warm regards,
Ghata

Thank you, Ghata.
Terry

Dear Ghata,

You wrote:

Have the courage to not know. Have the courage to trust the sensual input, the only real experience there is. It is only in the realm of experiencing where the door to freedom can be found.

I began the day with attention on sensual input.

Then, this came to mind:

All I can say is that when I read the question ("Are you 100% sure the self doesn't exist?"), the sensations in the throat arise and a thought arises, "Of course I exist!"

... and I wondered, why do I believe that thought? Why is attention drawn to it like a moth to a flame?

I spent a lot of time watching thoughts arise. I thought there might be a part of the thought process that I was not seeing, that I was perhaps afraid to see in detail. There was great resistance at first. Then, remarkably, that passed, and the inquiry proceeded fairly easily and enjoyably. Often there was the idea that "I" was generating a thought, but then I'd review it and realize that the thought came out of nowhere. I noticed the content of the thoughts. I noticed a tendency to believe the content, even with repetitive thoughts that I long ago learned were not to be believed (like "This is never going to work" and "You are doing it wrong"). Many thoughts arose like "I guess this LU stuff isn't going to work for you". Also, resistance arose. I kept remembering not to believe.

Curiously, while doing this, experience of sensory input became more vivid. I was walking outdoors and the motion of the plants and trees in the wind was vivid, and felt in the body.

Reviewing ... I just reviewed page 8. No new insights. Weariness, boredom.

When watching thoughts today, I wondered what happens when I am thinking something through, as when planning or problem solving. Planning and problem solving do not happen spontaneously when I am just watching thoughts. The thought may arise, "I want to plan tomorrow's dinner," but unless I engage in the thinking process (whatever that means), the planning does not happen. What is this "engaging", and why am I not able to watch my thoughts while so engaged? Is it possible for planning/problem-solving to occur without becoming engaged in thinking? This is a point of non-clarity that I've been curious about for a long time. I'd rather spend effort waking up than having theoretical discussions. But maybe this doubt or wondering about the planning/problem-solving mind is contributing to my belief in thought.

Best,
Terry

Dear Terry,

I applaude your courage to really LOOK! You are getting the hang of it :-).

Reviewing ... I just reviewed page 8. No new insights. Weariness, boredom.

Boredom could come up when the content on that page was rather about thinking than about direct experience.

... and I wondered, why do I believe that thought? Why is attention drawn to it like a moth to a flame?

Yes, why believe thoughts?

Let's look into the thought process in more detail. That will also answer some of the questions you asked.
Sit quietly, relax a bit and watch one thought after the other come up. Look at each question for about 5 minutes. You don't need to do the exercise in one piece.

Do you bring thoughts? If so from where and how?
Do you send them away?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Can you know your next thought before it arises and stop it from arising if you don't like it?
Is there is a thought that you can control?
What can a thought do – what power does it have?
Did any of these thoughts come on purpose?
You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

Share what you find.

Warm regards,
Ghata

Dear Ghata,

Thank you for the questions about thoughts.

First, I want to share something about my experience of thoughts that is not covered by any single question. In my experience, thoughts are not discrete entities, one appearing after the other, with a complete sentence for each thought. Most thoughts are almost wordless, like a whisper.

For example, a moment ago, a surge of fear sensations passed through my body, then a vague image of my exercise room, then sensations of contraction and a whisper of the word "haven't". If someone were to ask me what thought had just arisen, I'd say that the thought was, "Oh no! I haven't done my exercises in quite a few days! I'm losing my conditioning!" However, those words did not actually arise in the mind.

Sometimes after this particular series of sensations, images, and words, I will go up to my exercise room and start exercising.

Also, thoughts seem to overlap one another or interrupt one another. For example, just now, the words, "I don't know ... what should ... maybe ... " ... images of my housemate chopping ... "should I? ... I .... I ... hearing ... I wrote the word hearing ... gaaaaah ..." ... sound of furnace shutting off ... "boom!" hearing housemate rinsing a cup "swish swish swish! ... don't know ... " Mixed in there were various bodily sensations.

Normally if I were to log those thoughts, I'd write them as:
"I don't know if I'm doing this correctly."
"What should I do now? should I get up and get ready for work?"
"Maybe I'll keep doing this exercise for a while."

So somehow I'm ascribing content to a series of sense perceptions and brief words. Then, creating complete sentences to describe that content. Where does this content come from?

Now I will get ready to go to work.

Love,
Terry

Dear Terry,

In my experience, thoughts are not discrete entities, one appearing after the other, with a complete sentence for each thought. Most thoughts are almost wordless, like a whisper.

indeed, thoughts can have very different qualities. Good that you are aware of that :-). People seem to experience thoughts very differently.

For example, a moment ago, a surge of fear sensations passed through my body, then a vague image of my exercise room, then sensations of contraction and a whisper of the word "haven't". If someone were to ask me what thought had just arisen, I'd say that the thought was, "Oh no! I haven't done my exercises in quite a few days! I'm losing my conditioning!" However, those words did not actually arise in the mind.

A perfect sequence. Sensation - mental image - new sensations - thought comment.

Thoughts don't have to appear in full sentences.

Also, thoughts seem to overlap one another or interrupt one another. For example, just now, the words, "I don't know ... what should ... maybe ... " ... images of my housemate chopping ... "should I? ... I .... I ... hearing ... I wrote the word hearing ... gaaaaah ..." ... sound of furnace shutting off ... "boom!" hearing housemate rinsing a cup "swish swish swish! ... don't know ... " Mixed in there were various bodily sensations.

Could that also be a very quick sequence or are they in fact overlapping each other. There is no right answer to this, everybody experiences it differently.

Looking forward to reading what you find out with the exercise :-).

Much love,
Ghata

Dear Ghata,

I am settling into becoming the longest LU seeker in history. Just kidding. I really want to see. But if I don't, I trust that everything is unfolding as it should.

Do you bring thoughts? If so from where and how?

When I'm sitting quietly, watching thoughts arise -- no, it doesn't seem that I do.
But when I am accomplishing a thinking task, it seems that thought is a doing.

OK, now I am going to do this task: figure out which bus I need to get in the morning in order to be on time for my 10:00 meeting. I am going to watch the thoughts.

I begin relaxed.

Then, the thought arises, "I will now figure it out." A deep in-breath. Tingling in the brain area. Contractions in the throat. Pressure behind the eyeballs.

"OK, to be at work at 10, well, really, I'd like to be there at 9:50." Image of being at the office arises. "That means I have to get off the bus at 9:30." Image of disembarking the bus arises.
Now, intention to recall the bus schedule. The schedule comes to mind. How does that happen? I suppose that intending and recalling are just thoughts that happen by themselves.
"That means catching the 9:06 bus and leaving the house at 9."

All of that seems to be a bringing of thoughts. I can't yet tell what's actually going on. And, again, there is a sense of being engaged in thinking, not just watching thinking. 'A sense of effort. I can't see it all in enough detail to say what the direct experience is.

I'll try again, this time planning which bus to take home from work in order to be home at 4:30.

This time, I relaxed some more and found that, although the same sequence of sensations occurred (deep breath, pressure behind the eyes, etc.) I could watch the thoughts.

Perhaps there is no difference between thoughts lazily arising, and planning/problem-solving. Perhaps there is just a habit of bearing down when planning/problem-solving, and becoming lost in thought, but those habitual things are not necessary.

Do you send them away?

Again, when I am just lazily watching thoughts, no.

But I've had the experience of seemingly choosing to stop thinking about a certain topic.

Let me do that right now and see what happens.

Thoughts:
I am going to think about topic X. I know that when I think about X, I get really involved in it. I am then going to stop thinking about X.
<Various meanderings about topic X for a few seconds.>
OK, now I'm going to stop thinking about X. I will think about chicken breasts instead.
<Images of the chicken breasts I cooked this evening>

Well, it's really just a series of thoughts about which the story can be told, "I made myself stop thinking about X."

So, my answer is that, since I can find no mechanism by which I would send thoughts away, it is likely an illusion that I do, and there is really just a series of thoughts that fits a story of sending thoughts away.

Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?

It does not work.

Good night, Ghata.
Terry

Dear Terry,

I am settling into becoming the longest LU seeker in history. Just kidding. I really want to see. But if I don't, I trust that everything is unfolding as it should.

Hahaha! Yes, everything is unfolding in the right way. Relax.
YOU can't do it anyway, seeing happens. Looking directly as you are doing right now will help :-).

All of that seems to be a bringing of thoughts. I can't yet tell what's actually going on. And, again, there is a sense of being engaged in thinking, not just watching thinking. 'A sense of effort. I can't see it all in enough detail to say what the direct experience is.

This sense of "I am thinking" can even arise after the gate. It is just like seeing Santa at Christmas. You still see Santa, knowing that it is a person in red clothing with a white beard.

Perhaps there is no difference between thoughts lazily arising, and planning/problem-solving. Perhaps there is just a habit of bearing down when planning/problem-solving, and becoming lost in thought, but those habitual things are not necessary.

Have a look. Can an I be found in actual experience that is doing the planning?

Well, it's really just a series of thoughts about which the story can be told, "I made myself stop thinking about X."

Yesss!

I am looking forward to your next answers.

Much love, Ghata

Dear Ghata,

I couldn't sleep, so I'll do some more looking.

Have a look. Can an I be found in actual experience that is doing the planning?

I will now organize my to-do list for the day. I will try to do it in the relaxed way I did the planning last night so that I can observe the thinking.

Well, I didn't observe the thinking in detail. I organized the to-do list, but there wasn't a sense of "I" doing it. Let me do it some more.

I am feeling anger and resistance. How do I look for an I in the actual experience of planning? If there was no sense of "I", then maybe there is no more looking to do regarding planning.

Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?

NO! Impossible! It just doesn't work that way. Thoughts just arise. Even during planning-thinking, plans are created, but the thinking itself is not planned.

Can you know your next thought before it arises and stop it from arising if you don't like it?

As I mentioned before, I know that certain thoughts tend to arise under certain conditions, and when those conditions arise, if attention is focused strongly on sensation, the thought will not arise. But there is no "I" doing this.

Is there is a thought that you can control?

I don't even know what that would be. No.

The thought just arose, "I am better than K because she didn't spend any time with her mother when her mother was dying."
Then: "Can I control this thought?"
"What would it mean to control the thought?"
No doubt this thought could arise again given suitable conditions. Sometimes there is an experience of shame or dislike about a thought, but the thought has already occurred, and further, there is no way to stop the thought from recurring. The thought may recur less often under certain conditions (e.g. being really busy and focused on other things).

What can a thought do – what power does it have?

This is easy. None. Thought is a phenomenon, an experience.

Did any of these thoughts come on purpose?

Hmmm. No. There is an illusion that the planning is done on purpose, but the actual thoughts that arise during planning simply arise.

Here is a curious series of experiences I just had:
thought: let me now have a frightful thought about what is coming up in my day
sensation: sensations of fright in the chest
thought: vague image of my workplace
thought: I don't need to let the actual thought arise; why bother myself with frightful thoughts?

This series is consistent with a story that I can bring thoughts and that I can stop them in the middle. But there is no reason to believe that this is what is actually happening.

You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

This is the most interesting question. I don't know what content is! Some thoughts include, or are, images, and those often correspond to remembered sense impressions. So the thought just arose, "when will the next thought arise?" What is the content there? Some thought content can be called story. But can it be said that I am experiencing the content? What is the experience of story? I can't answer these questions at the moment. However, I do know that content is not real. Content consists of stories, memories ... a re-living of experience in the mind.

It felt like I couldn't sleep due to feelings of anger. Undirected. The feelings have stayed with me this past hour as I have been writing to you. The thought arises that my fantasy life is filled with fantasies that "I" could control my experience if only "I" exerted enough discipline. Can anger arise due to seeing that this fantasy is completely impossible to fulfill? No need to answer that question.

I think I am seeing the stories appearing in the mind about "I" more clearly. I am going to do this, I did that, I did it because. I am seeing more clearly that thought content is not to be believed. If thought content is not to be believed, then these I-statements are also completely vacuous. And if I strip away all the I-thoughts from my experience, there is nothing left to suggest that there is any "I" doing anything.

I think I'll stop writing for now :-)

(And if I indeed do stop writing, that does NOT indicate that I knew I would! It is just an illustration of the mind creating an I-story about something that was going to happen anyway.)

Wait a sec. I'm going to write some more.

While I was lying in bed, unable to sleep, the thought again arose, "Maybe I'm done now." Then, "This anger, it is just as sticky as before. The mind is spinning just as many stories about the anger as before. The anger is just as uncomfortable as before." Then - "Aha. I did have some expectations about feeling better, lighter, etc. after gate." I think I've just now dropped those expectations.

4:43 a.m., first birds singing of the new day.

Dear Terry,

If there was no sense of "I", then maybe there is no more looking to do regarding planning.

:-)

This is the most interesting question. I don't know what content is! Some thoughts include, or are, images, and those often correspond to remembered sense impressions. So the thought just arose, "when will the next thought arise?" What is the content there?

Here the content ist: "When will the next thought arise" - exactly these words.

Are mental images or stories real in the sense that they can be experienced with the 5 senses?

It felt like I couldn't sleep due to feelings of anger. Undirected. The feelings have stayed with me this past hour as I have been writing to you. The thought arises that my fantasy life is filled with fantasies that "I" could control my experience if only "I" exerted enough discipline. Can anger arise due to seeing that this fantasy is completely impossible to fulfill? No need to answer that question.

I will answer this question. Seeing that no I can be found that could control experiences with enough discipline used can be quite unsettling. Because it also means that the hope is lost that reality can be different than it is and that you would have the power to create a better experience.

Can the present moment be any different than it is?

Much love,
Ghata