The Gate

Hi Ghata,

It's true, there is no "me".

Cyber

Hi Cyberogue,

It's true, there is no "me".

Okay, Cyber. Now I need some proof for this statement. What makes you sure that there is no me?


With much love,
Ghata

Dear Cyberogue,

last time you gave the "right answer". I am not waiting for the right answer though. What we are both waiting for is that the truth is experienced.

You cannot make it happen, neither can I. That is why you cannot fail at this. How could you fail at something you cannot do?

You can help with returning to your actual experience again and again. The experience your 5 senses provide.

Thoughts can easily deceive you. They talk about things that are there when you check with your 5 senses, and they talk about things that are not there, like Santa, a unicorn, batman...

Thoughts can even be used as a drug to generate nice feelings.

Relax...Become again aware of what you actually see, hear, touch, sense, taste, smell...totally be with it without the need to name it...let yourself be soaked in the experience...

And when you remember, notice whether there is a seer, hearer....

This is not hard work....relax.....


Looking forward to you sharing your experiences.


With much love,
Ghata

HI Ghata,

Life has been very busy for the past few days, so thus my delay in responding. You wrote.

Okay, Cyber. Now I need some proof for this statement. What makes you sure that there is no me?

When reading this my thoughts found it funny, as all i could imagine was proving that the sun isn't made of cheese or some other silly statement that is beyond proof. I came back to it over the last day and really pondered it however - am I sure there is no me?
What i have found to be true is that when you go looking its literally like looking for elves in the bottom of the garden. It would be lovely to find it, and it feels like there is magic there, but nothing turns up.

You did ask previously

Are you consciousness? Look thoroughly in your direct experience

And my answer was that my thoughts tell me I am, but i can' rely on those for accuracy. So it leaves me with the, lets call it "headspace" that tells me there is a "me" when i forget to look, but the moment I remember to, there is just stuff happening, and awareness of the stuff happening.

Cyber

Hi Cyberogue,

am I sure there is no me?
What i have found to be true is that when you go looking its literally like looking for elves in the bottom of the garden. It would be lovely to find it, and it feels like there is magic there, but nothing turns up.

Right. You have searched everything and haven't found an I in the "sense spheres". So you know intellectualy it cannot be found there.

What we are both waiting for is that this truth is experienced. The experience will be your proof. It is just like seeing the sun shining. Seeing it shining is the proof that it does shine indeed.


You cannot make it happen, neither can I. That is why you cannot fail at this. How could you fail at something you cannot do?

You can help though with returning to your actual experience again and again. The experience your 5 senses provide.

So it leaves me with the, lets call it "headspace" that tells me there is a "me" when i forget to look, but the moment I remember to, there is just stuff happening, and awareness of the stuff happening.

Yes, thoughts will keep telling you that there is a "me". Once you in fact experience that there is no "me", that won't be a problem any longer.

Thoughts can easily deceive you. They talk about things that are there when you check with your 5 senses, and they talk about things that are not there, like Santa, a unicorn, batman...

Thoughts can even be used as a drug to generate nice feelings.


Since you cannot make the experience of seeing through the illusion happen anyway...

Relax...Become again aware of what you actually see, hear, touch, sense, taste, smell...totally be with it without the need to name it...be soaked in the experience...

Maybe pick a sense a day and devote some time to really seeing what you look at...just seeing...

And play with the question: Is it true that there is no me?


Looking forward to hearing about your sensual experiences.

With much love,
Ghata

Hi Ghata,

Life has been very hectic, i am trying to get work and my days are consumed with writing CV's and sending them out, then meeting after meeting.

All this seems very far away, which i know is crazy. Its the time to be most aware and centred, but c'est la vie.

What we are both waiting for is that this truth is experienced. The experience will be your proof. It is just like seeing the sun shining. Seeing it shining is the proof that it does shine indeed.

I have lovely times of just being, and then there is absolutely no thought about any "me" being true, because it is clearly not even relevant.

Maybe pick a sense a day and devote some time to really seeing what you look at...just seeing..

I sat today and just looked. The first thing that happens is the obvious head chatter becomes apparent. Concentrating on seeing is the slowing down and quieting of the noise in the head. What is seen then moves from being stuff. A door. A lamp. To becoming more detailed. A dusty bronze or silver coloured base of the lamp.
As the detail appears, focus narrows and the noise becomes less and less distracting. With it comes an awareness of the space and time between seeing and noticing the label of what is seen. That gap feels like it might be infinte if you fell inside.

C

Hi Cyberogue,

:-)).

That gap feels like it might be infinte if you fell inside.

Anybody there to fall inside that gap?



With much love,
Ghata

Hi Ghata,

When there. No. Absolutely no. How do you stay in that?

C

Hi Cyberogue,

:-))

When there. No. Absolutely no. How do you stay in that?

You are always there. Thoughts and thinking cover it up so you don't notice it. You leave it by turning to thoughts. You return to it by returning to your 5 senses.

Keep going with your sensual experiences. You are doing well.


Sending love,
Ghata

Hi Cyberogue,

are you still with me? How is life going?


Lots of love,
Christiane

HI Ghata,

Got sick, work stuff not working out, and just depressed. So, apologies, i just forget to come here and by the end of the day I feel like its all a bit much. I am sure that thats when one needs to do this the most, but its a big struggle for me at the moment. I haven't done anything, just been on the couch and in bed this weekend.

C

Hi Cyberogue,

oh dear, so sorry that things are not working out for you <3.

I haven't done anything, just been on the couch and in bed this weekend.

Could YOU do anything at all?


Sending lots of love,
Christiane

HI Ghata,

LOL. No. And how amusing that actually when pain arrives its quite easy to see that most of it resides in thoughts. I do suspect that I suffer from an anxiety disorder. I notice without exercise the thoughts and feelings can simply overwhelm me. To concentrate on doing things, not thinking, allows an escape and the "me" is not there.

It is ironic that so much pain is attached to the "I" and yet so much work to let it go.

C

Hi Cyberogue,

LOL. No. And how amusing that actually when pain arrives its quite easy to see that most of it resides in thoughts.

Yep! :-) And how could you let go of something that is not there?

Can you say with 100% certainty that there is no I?


With lots of love,
Ghata

The idea and concept of "I" is not real. 100% certain of that. But what is useful to differentiate that you as Ghata or me as Cyber occupy different bodies, and the collection of thoughts and feelings are different? Is the concept of a "you" and "me" necessary to show that there are separate conscious beings - at least as far as our senses can tell?

Cyber