Hi Adam
Like when i think about a building, or world war two, there is no I being references in these thouggts
Is there a you that does the thinking then? Do you choose what is thought about?
Who or what thinks about a building?
Are you controlling the thinking process? If so how?
Hugs Sarah xxx
Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
No no theres no point of reference in which i can call a i. I do not build these thoughts, i use i for the sake of language
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Is there still wanting happening? Wanting something other than this? Impatience? Have you picked it apart? What is it made up of?
Are you awareness Adam? If so what notices that?
Hugs Sarah xxx
Are you awareness Adam? If so what notices that?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Sure there is still wanting, i want buffalo wings, i am hungry, but it is not I that wants. Its thought wanting, and stomache feeling uneasy, thought telling to fill it, there is no "i" that wants.
Sometimess there is still wanting other than what is, sure. But when its looked at it is made of thoughts and beliefs, more thought, when i quietly experience there is serenity, i dont mean doing away with thought, i mean looking at the thoughts that are causing want and realizing it is not tied to a self that wants.
Awareness simply is, there is no i outside of awareness to look at awareness
Sometimess there is still wanting other than what is, sure. But when its looked at it is made of thoughts and beliefs, more thought, when i quietly experience there is serenity, i dont mean doing away with thought, i mean looking at the thoughts that are causing want and realizing it is not tied to a self that wants.
Awareness simply is, there is no i outside of awareness to look at awareness
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
hey Adam
How can a thought want something?
Hugs Sarah xxx
How can a thought want something?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
By referencing to the belief of a self(another thought)
But there can also be a desire without a conscious thought
But there can also be a desire without a conscious thought
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Hi Adam
Sorry for the delay - something came up.
I am having problems understanding what you are saying and it is making it very difficult for me to assess your realisation and understanding. Earlier you said "I am still seeking, a little confused but not much. I have expectations every day"
From what you said here, I have continued guiding you until the seeking and confusion is over. But then you said "It is all thought."
Well if it is 'all thought', then what is this 'I' that is confused and is seeking'? Is what you are describing anything other than the content of thoughts? If you have realised that there is no real 'I', then what are you referring to?
You then say 'Thoughts want things' - But surely a thought isn't a 'thing' that can have desires? Can a thought want to go to university? Can a thought want a cup of tea? Examine experience right now . . . can you find a thought that wants something? What colour is it? What size is it? Can you smell it? Taste it?
Can you see that we can experience thoughts that may suggest these things, but the thoughts themselves do not have the desires because they do not exist as inherently existing objects.
If we say 'I' is a thought, we do not mean to substitute one word for another word. It is to point out that the 'I' is not an inherently existing 'thing' or person like it is normally suggested to be.
Hugs Sarah xxx
Sorry for the delay - something came up.
I think the problem is that for the last two pages, he has completely drifted away from talking from an experiential perspective, and is now talking from thought.By referencing to the belief of a self(another thought)
But there can also be a desire without a conscious thought
I am having problems understanding what you are saying and it is making it very difficult for me to assess your realisation and understanding. Earlier you said "I am still seeking, a little confused but not much. I have expectations every day"
From what you said here, I have continued guiding you until the seeking and confusion is over. But then you said "It is all thought."
Well if it is 'all thought', then what is this 'I' that is confused and is seeking'? Is what you are describing anything other than the content of thoughts? If you have realised that there is no real 'I', then what are you referring to?
You then say 'Thoughts want things' - But surely a thought isn't a 'thing' that can have desires? Can a thought want to go to university? Can a thought want a cup of tea? Examine experience right now . . . can you find a thought that wants something? What colour is it? What size is it? Can you smell it? Taste it?
Can you see that we can experience thoughts that may suggest these things, but the thoughts themselves do not have the desires because they do not exist as inherently existing objects.
If we say 'I' is a thought, we do not mean to substitute one word for another word. It is to point out that the 'I' is not an inherently existing 'thing' or person like it is normally suggested to be.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Good afternoon Sarah
Looking
But thought content is the thought it self, isnt it?
If the thoughts i am having didnt have content, there would be nothing, and therefore no thought.
Desire comes up. But when i look at it, the urgency of it disipates, because i ask, is this me wanting, or thought saying it should be different? And am i that thought? Does the thought have anything to do with a me? And the answer is no because there is no me i can locate, i am waiting for an order right now, i want it to be ready so i can deliver it. But there is nothing i can do about it. So i wait patiently.
Looking
But thought content is the thought it self, isnt it?
If the thoughts i am having didnt have content, there would be nothing, and therefore no thought.
Desire comes up. But when i look at it, the urgency of it disipates, because i ask, is this me wanting, or thought saying it should be different? And am i that thought? Does the thought have anything to do with a me? And the answer is no because there is no me i can locate, i am waiting for an order right now, i want it to be ready so i can deliver it. But there is nothing i can do about it. So i wait patiently.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
I feel like thats an off base example, but again thats a thought. Then i just thought what wants there to be a good example, another thought. So it doesnt matter.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Hi Adam
When you say 'thoughts want things', do you mean to say that the thought is suggesting that there is an 'I' that wants something and not that the thought itself (which has no inherent existence) wants something?
To accurately state 'A thought wants something' we would need to be able to find a thought as an inherently existing thing wouldn't we?
I'm going to ask you the six questions once more, and can you answer them as much as possible from what has been realised please, and as detailed as possible for you meaning to be clear. OK. I'm going to have to put them on another post coz I'm on my iPad!
Hugs Sarah xxx
When you say 'thoughts want things', do you mean to say that the thought is suggesting that there is an 'I' that wants something and not that the thought itself (which has no inherent existence) wants something?
To accurately state 'A thought wants something' we would need to be able to find a thought as an inherently existing thing wouldn't we?
I'm going to ask you the six questions once more, and can you answer them as much as possible from what has been realised please, and as detailed as possible for you meaning to be clear. OK. I'm going to have to put them on another post coz I'm on my iPad!
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Ok here they are again. Please answer both posts!
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Anything to add?
Hugs Sarah xxx
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Anything to add?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Good evening Sarah, I am gonna spend the night trying to answer the first set of questions.
First of all, i would have to say that you or your fellow guides where right about the drifting away from experiential perspective and talking from thought, as i mentioned early on i sometimes struggle with what you mean by direct experience, i forget how to draw from it, i am a very heady person so i talk from thought, sometimes i get it, other times i get confused
and say how can i base this off anything other than thought,
after all i cant describe the sensory experience with out thinking about it. And of course i know i gotta think to put words down but what im talking about is that i sometimes forget how to take in from the direct experience perspective other than thoughts, sometimes i overanalyze and get confused about what im supposed to be looking for.
When you asked can a thought want something and is there ever not an I in a thought, i realized something, i was looking at objective thought and saying no there isnt an i in thought, but when it comes to wanting, there is an illusion of an I there, because i thought it was thought wanting something, but it was thought wanting something based off the assumption there was an i who wants, it is thought referebcing a self, and i think thats why i found that when i looked at the thoughts and the desire in it and saw that there was no i to locate, i was more peaceful about the wanting, so essentially we caught me in a slip up. Another thing is that i truely feel i have come to realize this no self, but i slip away from it, and it comes back, then it goes, and then i question the integrity of my realisation, even though we know that no state is permenent, i feel i need to be more aware of this, more clear on it.
I have been watching elena nazenskys videos the past three days over adyashantis videos to really try to get a better understanding of the no self, its helping some, its funny cuz she used the anaolgy of a stomache needing food, the organism, and i was literally using that example the day before i see the video.any way, looking right now
There is a wanting to see something to figure out
I feel the blood in arms pumping, i feel mindful, its quiet outside
Thoughts are just firing off, there is no control of there focus, but they seem to keep coming back to the question is this self? What is self?
Now a thought what notices this thought
Its undescribable its just there, we call it awareness but that means nothing
Everything is doing its own thing, seeing, hearing, feeling, breathing is all independent of each other.
Even if i close my eyes there is still seeing, what we call black.
A thought comes about if i was born with out eyes, would i see black still? Would that be part of experience
Back to sensory experience
Everythings still doing its own thing and i go back to thinking and i cant find an i controlling it or a desire to do it
Goodnight
First of all, i would have to say that you or your fellow guides where right about the drifting away from experiential perspective and talking from thought, as i mentioned early on i sometimes struggle with what you mean by direct experience, i forget how to draw from it, i am a very heady person so i talk from thought, sometimes i get it, other times i get confused
and say how can i base this off anything other than thought,
after all i cant describe the sensory experience with out thinking about it. And of course i know i gotta think to put words down but what im talking about is that i sometimes forget how to take in from the direct experience perspective other than thoughts, sometimes i overanalyze and get confused about what im supposed to be looking for.
When you asked can a thought want something and is there ever not an I in a thought, i realized something, i was looking at objective thought and saying no there isnt an i in thought, but when it comes to wanting, there is an illusion of an I there, because i thought it was thought wanting something, but it was thought wanting something based off the assumption there was an i who wants, it is thought referebcing a self, and i think thats why i found that when i looked at the thoughts and the desire in it and saw that there was no i to locate, i was more peaceful about the wanting, so essentially we caught me in a slip up. Another thing is that i truely feel i have come to realize this no self, but i slip away from it, and it comes back, then it goes, and then i question the integrity of my realisation, even though we know that no state is permenent, i feel i need to be more aware of this, more clear on it.
I have been watching elena nazenskys videos the past three days over adyashantis videos to really try to get a better understanding of the no self, its helping some, its funny cuz she used the anaolgy of a stomache needing food, the organism, and i was literally using that example the day before i see the video.any way, looking right now
There is a wanting to see something to figure out
I feel the blood in arms pumping, i feel mindful, its quiet outside
Thoughts are just firing off, there is no control of there focus, but they seem to keep coming back to the question is this self? What is self?
Now a thought what notices this thought
Its undescribable its just there, we call it awareness but that means nothing
Everything is doing its own thing, seeing, hearing, feeling, breathing is all independent of each other.
Even if i close my eyes there is still seeing, what we call black.
A thought comes about if i was born with out eyes, would i see black still? Would that be part of experience
Back to sensory experience
Everythings still doing its own thing and i go back to thinking and i cant find an i controlling it or a desire to do it
Goodnight
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Hi Adam
Got computer problems again so am back on iPad.
YOU: First of all, i would have to say that you or your fellow guides where right about the drifting away from experiential perspective and talking from thought, as i mentioned early on i sometimes struggle with what you mean by direct experience, i forget how to draw from it, i am a very heady person so i talk from thought, sometimes i get it, other times i get confused
Me: OK do you see all the thought stories here? 'I' struggle etc. If forgetting happens no worries, just pick up again when remembering happens. Habit Adam.
YOU: When you asked can a thought want something and is there ever not an I in a thought, i realized something, i was looking at objective thought and saying no there isnt an i in thought, but when it comes to wanting, there is an illusion of an I there, because i thought it was thought wanting something, but it was thought wanting something based off the assumption there was an i who wants, it is thought referebcing a self, and i think thats why i found that when i looked at the thoughts and the desire in it and saw that there was no i to locate, i was more peaceful about the wanting, so essentially we caught me in a slip up. Another thing is that i truely feel i have come to realize this no self, but i slip away from it, and it comes back, then it goes, and then i question the integrity of my realisation, even though we know that no state is permenent, i feel i need to be more aware of this, more clear on it.
ME: Again do you see all the thought stories here? What is there to slip?
Look around, what is ever permanent? Are emotions, thoughts, senses etc? Look at the movement of everything?
Then look at that which notices? Does it ever doubt? Slip? Care?
YOU: Now a thought what notices this thought
Its undescribable its just there, we call it awareness but that means nothing
ME: Yes. You see it?
YOU: Everything is doing its own thing, seeing, hearing, feeling, breathing is all independent of each other.
Everythings still doing its own thing and i go back to thinking and i cant find an i controlling it or a desire to do it
ME: Rest there. What do you notice.
Hugs Sarah xxx
Got computer problems again so am back on iPad.
YOU: First of all, i would have to say that you or your fellow guides where right about the drifting away from experiential perspective and talking from thought, as i mentioned early on i sometimes struggle with what you mean by direct experience, i forget how to draw from it, i am a very heady person so i talk from thought, sometimes i get it, other times i get confused
Me: OK do you see all the thought stories here? 'I' struggle etc. If forgetting happens no worries, just pick up again when remembering happens. Habit Adam.
YOU: When you asked can a thought want something and is there ever not an I in a thought, i realized something, i was looking at objective thought and saying no there isnt an i in thought, but when it comes to wanting, there is an illusion of an I there, because i thought it was thought wanting something, but it was thought wanting something based off the assumption there was an i who wants, it is thought referebcing a self, and i think thats why i found that when i looked at the thoughts and the desire in it and saw that there was no i to locate, i was more peaceful about the wanting, so essentially we caught me in a slip up. Another thing is that i truely feel i have come to realize this no self, but i slip away from it, and it comes back, then it goes, and then i question the integrity of my realisation, even though we know that no state is permenent, i feel i need to be more aware of this, more clear on it.
ME: Again do you see all the thought stories here? What is there to slip?
Look around, what is ever permanent? Are emotions, thoughts, senses etc? Look at the movement of everything?
Then look at that which notices? Does it ever doubt? Slip? Care?
YOU: Now a thought what notices this thought
Its undescribable its just there, we call it awareness but that means nothing
ME: Yes. You see it?
YOU: Everything is doing its own thing, seeing, hearing, feeling, breathing is all independent of each other.
Everythings still doing its own thing and i go back to thinking and i cant find an i controlling it or a desire to do it
ME: Rest there. What do you notice.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
Good evening, Sarah!
to the second set of questions
No, there couldn't have ever been, only the belief that there was a self.
I cannot say for certain when this idea of self formed, probably very very young.
I would have to say it starts in the mind, because no other organs in my body hold on to beliefs that i am aware of. There was identification with everything, thoughts, feelings, body, personality, even my external envirement and my activities helped play a role in carving out an identity through which the self was forged. I have to do something, i will finish the latter half of the questions in a little bit..
to the second set of questions
No, there couldn't have ever been, only the belief that there was a self.
I cannot say for certain when this idea of self formed, probably very very young.
I would have to say it starts in the mind, because no other organs in my body hold on to beliefs that i am aware of. There was identification with everything, thoughts, feelings, body, personality, even my external envirement and my activities helped play a role in carving out an identity through which the self was forged. I have to do something, i will finish the latter half of the questions in a little bit..
Re: Mindfulness,Meditation,and True Nature - Adam51387
OK
How does it feel to notice this? This question had me stumped for a moment and then the perfect word arrived, it feels wonderful honestly, wonder is the perfect word because i felt great joy but the joy its self is not it! I cant word it! Its undescribable, its a wonder. Its always there, where i dont know, seeing it is calming, but the feelings are not it itself. Nothing has changed yet something has changed, its profound yet no big deal, it really is always there, whether your focused on it or notice it or not, i dont think you can focus on IT, that would imply a locale. It truly is an enigma.
Before this dialougue there was just a lot more identification. Paticularily with thought.
I cant really say what in paticular set me over the edge, because it seemed to be a huge shedding process little by little i got a glimpse, the seeing exercises were a big step, that night hearing the street being swept was a big break through, the realization that trying to locate thoughts was like chasing shadows with shadows was a big break through, and last night catching that which noticed my thoughts was another breakthrough that i was able to sustain, and when you said rest there, it kinda confirmed it for me that this is it.
I dont control anything, planning happens, decisions are made, thoughts come up, all on its own, there is no I in which i can say i have control over that directly plans and causes all these events, there is no I that controls my body, otherwise i would make my body not ache after exercise, and i would make it as strong as it could get. But its at the mercy of the human condition, the planning that happens, and the way its supposed to be, it will not be any other way. The potential here was always there. Never more never less,
Xx
How does it feel to notice this? This question had me stumped for a moment and then the perfect word arrived, it feels wonderful honestly, wonder is the perfect word because i felt great joy but the joy its self is not it! I cant word it! Its undescribable, its a wonder. Its always there, where i dont know, seeing it is calming, but the feelings are not it itself. Nothing has changed yet something has changed, its profound yet no big deal, it really is always there, whether your focused on it or notice it or not, i dont think you can focus on IT, that would imply a locale. It truly is an enigma.
Before this dialougue there was just a lot more identification. Paticularily with thought.
I cant really say what in paticular set me over the edge, because it seemed to be a huge shedding process little by little i got a glimpse, the seeing exercises were a big step, that night hearing the street being swept was a big break through, the realization that trying to locate thoughts was like chasing shadows with shadows was a big break through, and last night catching that which noticed my thoughts was another breakthrough that i was able to sustain, and when you said rest there, it kinda confirmed it for me that this is it.
I dont control anything, planning happens, decisions are made, thoughts come up, all on its own, there is no I in which i can say i have control over that directly plans and causes all these events, there is no I that controls my body, otherwise i would make my body not ache after exercise, and i would make it as strong as it could get. But its at the mercy of the human condition, the planning that happens, and the way its supposed to be, it will not be any other way. The potential here was always there. Never more never less,
Xx
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