Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

[Tao]

Hi Gomi,

Upon looking throughout the day, it is becoming increasingly apparent that there is no need to try and control things, because it is all just happening the way that it will.

While your comments are sweet: Are 'you' looking to "Man whose breathe is in his nostrils"? (Ha! A bible quote...and it isn't even from the religion i was born into.) Have you found that looking to others only strengthens a sense of the illusory self, which then leads to cravings and suffering?

Yes definitely.

Deconstructing the conditionings will still continue via SEEing. Please explain What experiences the happiness in the continuing?

Things are definitely deconstructing. I can now see the story that attaches to thoughts, which I couldn't see before. It is like an inner dialogue. A thought will flash up, a thought is just a thought, but then there is a little dialogue straight after. Sometimes it's even Benny's voice.

~*~Looking to RAW EXPERIENCing is just what is so. It's All That Is!!!

I'm not sure what it is that is always on.

Here's a pointer:

What is happening now, right now, this moment? That includes awareness of thinking and thought content too. (Watch the ease of default experiencing.) We are looking at raw experience. Period. Using this pointer, please write about the next 24 hours.

Lots and lots of thoughts, and stories attaching to those thoughts, not really going anywhere, just jumping around from subject to subject, not much focus on each.

Also auditory thoughts. Voices, strange sounds, parts of songs playing round as if they are stuck on loop - sometimes all day long but usually completely unnoticed. It is these thoughts that often cause the body to involuntarily sing the music line that is playing round. Benny's voice as an inner dialogue, interactions throughout the day, all imagined listenings.

Organism doing what it will, acting and reacting to chemicals, hormones, moods, nervous system, primal desires such as hunger and lust, and tiredness. And a story around this organism as 'me' needing to sleep, 'me' choosing to eat, 'me' craving intimacy and so on.

Benny

[Gomi]

Hi again!

From your past post:

The same as usual. Feelings, thoughts, stories.

Are you expecting something different ?"

story-fying happens and there is loss of 'noticing

Does noticing happen sometime after, even when story-fying finishes?

Lots and lots of thoughts, and stories attaching to those thoughts, not really going anywhere, just jumping around from subject to subject, not much focus on each.

What perceives these stories attaching to those thoughts?

Things are definitely deconstructing. I can now see the story that attaches to thoughts, which I couldn't see before. It is like an inner dialogue. A thought will flash up, a thought is just a thought, but then there is a little dialogue straight after. Sometimes it's even Benny's voice.

Is there anything that owns what is being deconstructed? Is there something that deconstructing is happening to?
Please watch this and report.

*Can you experience or notice thinking without a thinker? Doing without a doer?*
Stick with the raw experience of this. Please write about it...

Love,
Gomi

[Tao]

Hi Gomi

From your past post:

The same as usual. Feelings, thoughts, stories.

Are you expecting something different ?"

No, but perhaps a clearer vision of the feelings, thoughts, stories, and how they make up the illusion of 'I'.

story-fying happens and there is loss of 'noticing

Does noticing happen sometime after, even when story-fying finishes?

Yes, sometimes. Sometimes it is noticed during.

Lots and lots of thoughts, and stories attaching to those thoughts, not really going anywhere, just jumping around from subject to subject, not much focus on each.

What perceives these stories attaching to those thoughts?

Well, the stories are noticed, and then there is a memory of the story, like a reflection. And there are then thoughts/stories around the memory of the story.

What perceives all of these can't be found. There is still the sense 'I remember' etc. But that which experiences the memory, that which experiences the thoughts, and stories, can't be found.

Is there anything that owns what is being deconstructed? Is there something that deconstructing is happening to?

[/b]
Please watch this and report.

*Can you experience or notice thinking without a thinker? Doing without a doer?*
Stick with the raw experience of this. Please write about it...

I will come back to this tomorrow.

Benny

[Gomi]

Hi hon,

The same as usual. Feelings, thoughts, stories.
Are you expecting something different ?"

No, but perhaps a clearer vision of the feelings, thoughts, stories, and how they make up the illusion of 'I'.

LOVE that this sentence came up! How juicy! It opens the door to LOOK at these OP.

Please LOOK at each premise. Work with these at your own pace, but make sure to bring each one into the light of SEEing.

*Vision? WHAT sees?
*WHAT is illusion? What is the make up of illusion?
*Are feelings real? Are stories real?
*Is it possible for stories or feelings to have clarity?
*What receives clarity? The mind? Is the mind real?
*Will thoughts stop after seeing thru the illusion?
*Can real or unreal be SEEN? If so, by what?

Again, i will be gone 9/5-9/22. Depending upon when you post, either vince or i will respond.

Much love,
Gomi

[Tao]

Hi Vince,

It feels like I'm needing a bit of time at the moment for the answers to arise. It is becoming clearer that 'I' need to just listen/watch, rather than LOOK. LOOKING implies doing something to see something, which is filled with thinking what it is that 'I' should be looking for. Just listening is more receptive, passive.

Please LOOK at each premise. Work with these at your own pace, but make sure to bring each one into the light of SEEing.

*Vision? WHAT sees?

No idea, but it is SEEN.

*WHAT is illusion? What is the make up of illusion?

An appearance. Perhaps even a perception. Perception itself. What it is that perceives can't be found.

*Are feelings real? Are stories real?

They both really appear. They are both a part of experience. The content of the stories is a concept. If it is a concept, it is not IT.

It feels. Stories may appear before or after the feeling, but it is felt, like a wave.

*Is it possible for stories or feelings to have clarity?

I don't suppose they ever have that much clarity. When one looks at it, it was not what one originally thought it was. Ever changing, deepening, fleeting. Perhaps that which was experienced as negative, when looked at, isn't negative at all. And vice versa. Good feelings, high feelings arise, and then looking at them, actually they are the same as the negative feelings. It is two sides of the same coin. Nothing is clear, when experience is perceived as negative, that is just perception, that is just perception of feeling, perception of 'outside world' perception of everything. Perception of the world wavers so frequently, one minute one thing, one minute the next. Nothing is known. It's always changing. Nothing is ever entirely clear. Certainty, too, is an illusion.

Benny

[vinceschubert]

Morning Benny.
It seems that this exercise was missed. Would you do it please...

Write about a strongly emotional experience, perhaps one in which you felt badly hurt or grossly misunderstood.
When you have written it all out in its gory details, start editing it like this: first cross out all the adjectives and adverbs. Next go through and cross out anything that was what you thought rather than what actually occurred. Cross out anything that is not Who, What, When or Where. Cross out all the Whys and the explanations. Now you are getting closer to reality! Notice how we use modifiers and assumptions to create a story that embellishes reality beyond recognition! Finally, reduce what is left to a "headline"; just the bare minimum of fact. (You do not need to post the experience, just what opened, if anything, afterwards.)

love

vince

[Tao]

Morning Benny.
It seems that this exercise was missed. Would you do it please...

Write about a strongly emotional experience, perhaps one in which you felt badly hurt or grossly misunderstood.
When you have written it all out in its gory details, start editing it like this: first cross out all the adjectives and adverbs. Next go through and cross out anything that was what you thought rather than what actually occurred. Cross out anything that is not Who, What, When or Where. Cross out all the Whys and the explanations. Now you are getting closer to reality! Notice how we use modifiers and assumptions to create a story that embellishes reality beyond recognition! Finally, reduce what is left to a "headline"; just the bare minimum of fact. (You do not need to post the experience, just what opened, if anything, afterwards.)

Hi Vince, yeah sorry, totally missed this.

It was a VERY insightful process. It is pretty much all assumptions and decorations. In fact the whole story is like a decoration to what IS. It's amazing how believable a fictional story is!

From the whole thing, the headline was, 'I feel a lot of anger towards her'. It could be reduced just to 'anger', but even that is a label. This could be a really useful process, to use this exercise whenever a story is strong. To see things clearly, to see clearly what IS.

I can't even find the post now, but Gomi asked if I get totally sucked into story everytime. No, the stories are still there, and it varies upon how much they are acted out/believed. There is more awareness of the story process, as the insight has been unfolding. The chuckle happens more often. Noticing happens a lot more even in interactions with others.

Stories are noticed a lot more frequently now, they still come with emotional tone, feelings, etc.

The more negative the tone, the more strong the 'sucking in'. Heavy feelings/thoughts cause discomfort, and therefore dissatisfaction, as the heavy thoughts ARE the dissatisfaction.

Benny

[vinceschubert]

The more negative the tone, the more strong the 'sucking in'.

Yep, and then there are those that only surface occasionally. It seems that those to do with early family experiences will come up from the deepest 'place'.

Stories are noticed a lot more frequently now,

This noticing is what 'breaks' the automatic 'suck in'. Have you noticed that the emotional component of the story gets 'dropped' when it is SEEn for what it is (just thoughts) ?
Benny, how has your 'attitude' to other people changed since starting this 'process' ?

love

vince

[Tao]

Hi Vince

The more negative the tone, the more strong the 'sucking in'.

Yep, and then there are those that only surface occasionally. It seems that those to do with early family experiences will come up from the deepest 'place'.

Early childhood has been coming up a lot during LOOking. Flashing up in the mind as if from nowhere.

Stories are noticed a lot more frequently now,

This noticing is what 'breaks' the automatic 'suck in'. Have you noticed that the emotional component of the story gets 'dropped' when it is SEEn for what it is (just thoughts) ?

Perfectly worded! Yes, it is the emotional component that falls away upon noticing. It just doesn't have the power that it had once SEEn.

Benny, how has your 'attitude' to other people changed since starting this 'process' ?

It is changing a lot. A lot more love and acceptance for all behaviours and attitudes. There is less reaction/defensiveness when challenged/interrogated. It is insight that changes things, nothing else. It is much more difficult to take 'my' cynacisms for others seriously. Life unfolds in a different way as a result. The first two verses of the Dhammapada says it all. Once those 'impure' thoughts no longer carry such emotional weight, what trouble could there be?

'I' expect less of others, too. Life unfolds the way that it will, everything is in balance. Thoughts that want or need only serve to shake the balance. A letting go is happening.

There are waves of negative tone, that show up for a day or two, and do 'sucking in'. This has not arisen for a week or two now.

Benny

[Tao]

Sorry got the quote functions wrong again :D

[vinceschubert]

Can you SEE that in Experiencing, there is no experiencer or experienced as separate 'things' ?
That ALL that actually exists is an aware-ing of perceiving ?
In which case, what is the relationship between Benny and Others ?

love

vince

[Tao]

Can you SEE that in Experiencing, there is no experiencer or experienced as separate 'things' ?
That ALL that actually exists is an aware-ing of perceiving ?
In which case, what is the relationship between Benny and Others ?

Not totally, no. I can see that the experiencer arises only as a thought, and that the thought arises within experience, but the relationship between Benny and others appears very real.

Benny

[vinceschubert]

the relationship between Benny and others appears very real.

Of course the relationship is real. Real emotional responses to real stories (about less than real things).

...appears very real.

You saw in the video (Secret Self) that the SENSE of self can be manipulated to be somewhere other than its' usual place (in this case they manipulated it to be outside the body and behind the him), and that it is an 'accident' of the senses that its usual place is inside the head. It is this same mechanism that makes what you see or hear appear to be out there. LOOK for yourself. Listen to a sound (a constant sound like the fridge is good for this exercise) It is the mind and the senses combined to say it is coming from "over there". What is your experiencing. Is there sound ? or is there just hearing ?
Look at something. Is there just seeing, and isn't it obvious that this is all happening in the brain of Benny ?
How much of an interaction with 'others' happens in the brain of Benny ?
How much of the apparent 'other' is actually Benny (Benny's projection) ?

love

vince

[Tao]

Hi Vince

It is the mind and the senses combined to say it is coming from "over there". What is your experiencing. Is there sound ? or is there just hearing ?

There is just hearing. It is a thought that arises that projects the sound to 'over there'.

Look at something. Is there just seeing, and isn't it obvious that this is all happening in the brain of Benny ?

Yes there is just seeing, but how conditioned it is to see it as 'over there'. Is it that the light is closer than close? No distance?

How much of an interaction with 'others' happens in the brain of Benny ?
How much of the apparent 'other' is actually Benny (Benny's projection) ?

This gave me a glimpse of something. I don't think the truth of no-self has been fully SEEN yet. It felt like 'I' was about to dissappear. If it's all in the brain of Benny, how can there even be a brain of Benny?

It's all states of consciousness isn't it? It's like we are constantly moving through different realms of conscious appearance, from one realm to the next, and each one is just a shift in perception, a shift in the way things appear.

love
Benny

[vinceschubert]

I don't think the truth of no-self has been fully SEEN yet. It felt like 'I' was about to disappear.

Are you saying that because you felt 'I' was about to disappear,that there is an actual 'I' somewhere ?

If it's all in the brain of Benny,

Of course, this is all a story. How can there be direct experiencing of a brain ?

It's all states of consciousness

More stories ?

each one is just a shift in perception, a shift in the way things appear.

..but yes, is ALL that is Real anything more than the perceiving of Experiencing ?

love

vince