The Gate

Hi Henri,

Makes sense! Can't say I've experienced anything like that, or I may not have paid much attention to it. I say go with it, enjoy, and see where it goes :)

Okay!

1. Can you find anywhere where 'you' autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?
2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look cool for a certain person) etc.
Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?
3. Can anything be found for which 'you' are responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

1. No, there is no choice independent of the circumstances. Every decision, every action happens as a product of the circumstances.

2. The regular decision: Going to bed at 11pm or keep watching a Youtube video. The desire to go to bed early follows from many previous videos I have watched about how going to bed early and getting up early is 'good'. However, this desire also triggers an anxiety feeling in my stomach. This triggers thoughts like: 'Oh I'm just gonna watch this video and go to bed afterwards.'. This then triggers a thought like: 'Oh no, I need to make sure that I don't give in to this thought, I need to go to bed now.'. Then a thought like: 'But, I don't wanna go to bed, because reasons reasons reasons.' In this process of making a decision every single step is informed by the circumstances. For example, had I not watched any videos in the past about going to bed early, I would not have had the desire to go to bed early. Similarly, if there was no interest in awakening the thoughts about my previous thoughts would have been different. There is no 'Jaïr' person somewhere in my body that is making decisions or intervening with life in any way.

3. 'I' am not responsible for anything because 'I' have never made any decision, 'I' just simply thought that 'I' was making decisions. Even writing this exact sentence right now happens simply because of the circumstances. I would have not written this sentence had I never heard about awakening or had I never heard about Liberation Unleashed or had the computer never been invented, etc. 'I' is essentially an (kind of arbitrary) set of decisions, thoughts, feelings, emotions and not anything personal.

~Jaïr

Exactly. You are very clear on all this.

So is there 'you' separate from the rest?

Is there a body that is making decisions or separate from life?

Is there something that doesn't happen automatically?

So is there 'you' separate from the rest?
Is there a body that is making decisions or separate from life?
Is there something that doesn't happen automatically?

There is no separate me from the rest. All decisions happen as a result of circumstances and not as a result of an entity separate from life. Everything happens automatically (or by itself).

Everytime I write the word: I, I want to put it in quotation marks ('I') because it does not feel personal anymore (it does not feel like 'me' anymore, but rather like an arbitrary collection of thoughts, which is obviously not me).

~Jaïr

Everytime I write the word: I, I want to put it in quotation marks ('I') because it does not feel personal anymore (it does not feel like 'me' anymore, but rather like an arbitrary collection of thoughts, which is obviously not me).

I was going to ask if there's 100% certainty that there is no inherent self, but you answered it.

Is there anything else you want to cover?

Otherwise we can wrap up with the final questions as you seem to already be going past no separate self territory.

Hi Henri,

Is there anything else you want to cover?

I don't think so. At least right now, if I think of anything I will let you know.

~Jaïr

Do you want to answer the final questions?

We can always continue the thread after the final questions, but then it would be without any particular aim, unless we set one.

Hi Henri,

Do you want to answer the final questions?

Sure!

Here you go. Feel free to take your time. And any questions, let me know.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe how decisions are made & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Hi Henri,

Here are the answers to the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

1. There is no separate entity anywhere nor has there ever been any separate entity.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

2. The illusion of the separate self is the belief in a separate entity that decides, feels, controls its environment. It starts (and ends) in the exact moment a thought, feeling, decision is believed to come from anything separate from the rest of life. The separate self is like an imaginary line around an arbitrary set of feelings, thoughts, decisions and sensations. Everything within the line seems to be controllable, everything outside of it seems uncontrollable. However, it turns out that everything just happens by itself. Both control and uncontrol require there to be the line between the two, which is imaginary and doesn't actually exist. In other words, there is no one to control anything so 'control' loses all its meaning.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The first chunk of realisation happened like three years ago and I remember it was an incredible relief. Unlike anything I had ever felt. However, the realisation wasn't complete and so the relief slowly faded away again. The remaining chunk of realisation happened in the last few months. This time there has been some relief, but not as much the first time (maybe because the realisation was more gradual this time). The difference in understanding is simply that everything happens as a result of the circumstances that arose not because an separate entity interferes with anything. The practical difference is that I am not trying to push away emotions, feelings and thoughts as much anymore. It is clear that this trying is futile because emotions, feelings and thoughts are not something I do, rather they just happen. This has definitely brought some relief, because I don't have to push and pull on emotions anymore. It still happens, but it feels more like an old habit rather than some trick that might actually work.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Both realisations appeared after working through emotions. Both times the emotions got so intense that it dawned on me that it simply was less painful to confront them head on then to push them away any longer. The initial chunk of realisation came after working through sadness and the second chunk came after working through fear.

5a) Describe how decisions are made & give examples from experience.
5b) Describe intention & give examples from experience.
5c) Describe free will & give examples from experience.
5d) Describe choice & give examples from experience.
5e) Describe control & give examples from experience.
5f) What makes things happen? How does it work?
5g) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

5a. Decisions are made as a result of the circumstances. For example, I pick a blue shirt from my closet, because I have received a compliment for the shirt once, I like blue, I like wearing shirts, the weather is relatively warm. Not because there is some separate entity in my head that weighs the pros and cons and then decides on the blue shirt.

5b. There is no separate entity intending to do anything. Thoughts come up that seem to portray an intention ('I'm going to do this, because I want this to happen'), but these thoughts were not intended and just appeared themselves. I didn't intend to wear the blue shirt. When I opened the closet there was a thought like: 'I will pick this blue shirt' and then my arm reached out to pick up the blue shirt. All of those actions just happened, no separate entity trying to intend anything.

5c. There is no free will. There is no entity in my head that is free to choose whether or not it picks the blue shirt or not. Whether I pick the blue shirt is entirely dependent on the set of circumstances that arose. The thought about whether free will exists or not is part of this set of circumstances. This makes it seem like there is free will, however, the thought itself was not decided upon either and just as much a product from the set of circumstances at that point.

5d. There is no choice. Everything just happens, choice seems to arise when decisions and intention combine. I intend to do this then a decision arises hence I now have a choice. However, there is no intention so the decision is made based on the circumstances which means there was no choice.

5e. The sense of control arises from believing that there is choice. There is no choice and thus no decision to control.

5f. Nothing makes things happen. Everything just happens. There is no separate thing that makes anything happen.

5g. No one is responsible for anything. There is no entity in my head that can choose to pick the blue shirt, so the picking of the blue shirt is no one's doing. The blue shirt is picked simply because it turned out the circumstances were set up in a way for it to get picked, no other reason.

6) Anything to add?

The questions in 5) felt weird to answer. Decisions, intention, free will, choice, control and other such things require there to be two things (one thing that decides, intends, free wills, chooses, controls independently upon the second thing). However, there are no two things that act independently upon one another, so all of these words completely lose all their meaning. Therefore it feels weird to for example say there is no control, because it seems to imply that everything is non-controlled. However, nothing is non-controlled either. The completion notion about control (or any of the words above) is just completely meaningless now, so nothing is controlled nor is it non-controlled.

~Jaïr

Hi Henri,

Here are the answers to the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

1. There is no separate entity anywhere nor has there ever been any separate entity.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

2. The illusion of the separate self is the belief in a separate entity that decides, feels, controls its environment. It starts (and ends) in the exact moment a thought, feeling, decision is believed to come from anything separate from the rest of life. The separate self is like an imaginary line around an arbitrary set of feelings, thoughts, decisions and sensations. Everything within the line seems to be controllable, everything outside of it seems uncontrollable. However, it turns out that everything just happens by itself. Both control and uncontrol require there to be the line between the two, which is imaginary and doesn't actually exist. In other words, there is no one to control anything so 'control' loses all its meaning.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The first chunk of realisation happened like three years ago and I remember it was an incredible relief. Unlike anything I had ever felt. However, the realisation wasn't complete and so the relief slowly faded away again. The remaining chunk of realisation happened in the last few months. This time there has been some relief, but not as much the first time (maybe because the realisation was more gradual this time). The difference in understanding is simply that everything happens as a result of the circumstances that arose not because an separate entity interferes with anything. The practical difference is that I am not trying to push away emotions, feelings and thoughts as much anymore. It is clear that this trying is futile because emotions, feelings and thoughts are not something I do, rather they just happen. This has definitely brought some relief, because I don't have to push and pull on emotions anymore. It still happens, but it feels more like an old habit rather than some trick that might actually work.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Both realisations appeared after working through emotions. Both times the emotions got so intense that it dawned on me that it simply was less painful to confront them head on then to push them away any longer. The initial chunk of realisation came after working through sadness and the second chunk came after working through fear.

5a) Describe how decisions are made & give examples from experience.
5b) Describe intention & give examples from experience.
5c) Describe free will & give examples from experience.
5d) Describe choice & give examples from experience.
5e) Describe control & give examples from experience.
5f) What makes things happen? How does it work?
5g) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

5a. Decisions are made as a result of the circumstances. For example, I pick a blue shirt from my closet, because I have received a compliment for the shirt once, I like blue, I like wearing shirts, the weather is relatively warm. Not because there is some separate entity in my head that weighs the pros and cons and then decides on the blue shirt.

5b. There is no separate entity intending to do anything. Thoughts come up that seem to portray an intention ('I'm going to do this, because I want this to happen'), but these thoughts were not intended and just appeared themselves. I didn't intend to wear the blue shirt. When I opened the closet there was a thought like: 'I will pick this blue shirt' and then my arm reached out to pick up the blue shirt. All of those actions just happened, no separate entity trying to intend anything.

5c. There is no free will. There is no entity in my head that is free to choose whether or not it picks the blue shirt or not. Whether I pick the blue shirt is entirely dependent on the set of circumstances that arose. The thought about whether free will exists or not is part of this set of circumstances. This makes it seem like there is free will, however, the thought itself was not decided upon either and just as much a product from the set of circumstances at that point.

5d. There is no choice. Everything just happens, choice seems to arise when decisions and intention combine. I intend to do this then a decision arises hence I now have a choice. However, there is no intention so the decision is made based on the circumstances which means there was no choice.

5e. The sense of control arises from believing that there is choice. There is no choice and thus no decision to control.

5f. Nothing makes things happen. Everything just happens. There is no separate thing that makes anything happen.

5g. No one is responsible for anything. There is no entity in my head that can choose to pick the blue shirt, so the picking of the blue shirt is no one's doing. The blue shirt is picked simply because it turned out the circumstances were set up in a way for it to get picked, no other reason.

6) Anything to add?

The questions in 5) felt weird to answer. Decisions, intention, free will, choice, control and other such things require there to be two things (one thing that decides, intends, free wills, chooses, controls independently upon the second thing). However, there are no two things that act independently upon one another, so all of these words completely lose all their meaning. Therefore it feels weird to for example say there is no control, because it seems to imply that everything is non-controlled. However, nothing is non-controlled either. The completion notion about control (or any of the words above) is just completely meaningless now, so nothing is controlled nor is it non-controlled.

~Jaïr

Thanks!

I shared these with other guides to see if anyone had any questions or comments.

One guide had one question so far:

I have one small question that could be just a matter of expression: "The practical difference is that I am not trying to push away emotions, feelings and thoughts as much anymore."

What is that that pushes/pulls emotions and thoughts? What is it that is standing apart from thought and sensations and has the ability to disregard them?

Hi Henri,

I have one small question that could be just a matter of expression: "The practical difference is that I am not trying to push away emotions, feelings and thoughts as much anymore."
What is that that pushes/pulls emotions and thoughts? What is it that is standing apart from thought and sensations and has the ability to disregard them?

I think it is a matter of expression. What I mean is that the thoughts that are like: 'I don't want to feel this', 'I need to do this because of this', 'I can't think this' still appear. And the body sensations still appear along side them. So what I meant by 'not trying to push away emotions as much anymore' is that the thoughts that imply there is a separate self still appear, but are appearing less and less. With practical difference I meant to describe how the realisation affected the thoughts/sensations that appeared. I did not mean that there is a separate self trying less hard to push away thoughts.

~Jaïr

Thanks! Will relay your answer :)

No one else had any questions. You will be contacted by an admin to invite you into the LU FB group.

Below are some excellent resources for further exploration. It is not meant for you to explore all of these. Simply notice what resonates and go with that.

Simply Awake app - Free app for your phone that contains dozens of meditations that will help you keep looking deeper.
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... roid.awake
Apple: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/simply-awake/id1544382796

https://perfectlyokay.org/ - A free community that has an excellent 10 fetters group that meets up almost every week. They also have recordings from previous meetings that are excellent. Instructions on how to join are on the homepage.

Byron Katie's The Work - If you want to look at and untangle beliefs, you can search for byron katie on YouTube or Google and find a lot of resources for free.

Now, how do you want to proceed?

Do you want to continue in this thread, or go out an explore the world? :)

Hi Henri,

Simply Awake app - Free app for your phone that contains dozens of meditations that will help you keep looking deeper.
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... roid.awake
Apple: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/simply-awake/id1544382796
https://perfectlyokay.org/ - A free community that has an excellent 10 fetters group that meets up almost every week. They also have recordings from previous meetings that are excellent. Instructions on how to join are on the homepage.
Byron Katie's The Work - If you want to look at and untangle beliefs, you can search for byron katie on YouTube or Google and find a lot of resources for free.

Thanks for these, I will definitely check them out!

Now, how do you want to proceed?
Do you want to continue in this thread, or go out an explore the world? :)

For now, I don't really know how I want to continue. I'm going to take some time to decide what I want to do. Regardless of what that is going to be. I really want to thank you for all the help and patience Henri, you really are an excellent guide.

~Jaïr