Who would want to have this experience all the time?
and whom this experience is happening or not happening TO?
There is no one who who this experience is happening to. Seeing this has a big impact. I can now, in this moment, really see that it’s not just that there is no control, no controller, there is no one experiencing this. No one at all. Just experience. And thoughts, emotions, sensations, but no one here who experiences them.
This really makes me curious about what
is this. But I know that any thoughts I have about it are just words so I just experience it.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
There is no separate self, as was believed before, who has the name “dana”, who is the controller of her life, etc.
there was never one.
It seemed like there was, just as now it sometimes seems like there is, when certain thoughts arise with this story. But I see now that it isn’t true, and this is the crazy part, that nothing changes but is just seen. So I see that there was never a self, I just thought there was.
2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?
The illusion of a separate self has a big impact on the experience of daily life. It is like there is a certain reality, and because of this belief of a seperate self the reality becomes very distorted to fit this belief. The belief comes in the shape of thoughts as labels and words and images. For example “this hand is mine”. Or “I am not good enough”. Really life revolves around this belief that there is an I, when there actually isn’t. Another example is the thought that I have control over what I do, that there’s someone here being in control.
Life is happening by itself, the body moves by itself, thoughts thought by themselves, and the belief in a separate self adds a narrative to all this. It doesn’t change the reality, this is the way things are. But it adds a layer of this belief onto it and changes how we view life.
What is different now is that I can watch these thoughts unfold and watch the stories, not fight them because there’s no one to fight, no one saying them, and no one that can stop them. There never was but now it’s seen. So this is what’s changed with the inquiry, the ability to do this this different kind of looking than there was before, a different sense of this moment.
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels very freeing, a feeling of just watching what happens. A lot more curiosity is appearing also, about this present moment. It’s pretty incredible seeing what happens. What decision will be made next? What part of the body will move? Just watching it.
Less resistance also to thoughts arising that are unpleasant. There are still unpleasant thoughts, but they flow more freely since they don’t have so much meaning as before, holding the heavy “I am a separate self” baggage.
I was having a conversation with my mom today and was noticing the words that I said, noticing the emotions that came up and it was a wonderful experience of seeing this for what it is. It’s like, the world continues to function like there is a “Dana” but I can observe and see that it’s otherwise.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
I think it was very gradual. One moment that is remembered is when I was feeling my hand for an exercise you gave me and realized that the thought that it’s “my” hand is just a thoughts and isn’t true because there is no “i” who can have ownership of this hand. I really noticed this sensation of the hand and saw that this was just added labeling. I don’t know if this was the “last bit that pushed me over” but it was strong.
And aha moments of seeing that there is no control, like thoughts popping up mainly. If there is no controller, who is here? No one.
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
These are all labels thoughts give as an extension of the story of a self that has control. But they do not exist.
It seems like there are decisions made by a person. But when looking closely there aren’t. For example a thought arises “maybe I should go to the bathroom” and some more thoughts come up seeming to debate this. Then finally there’s a thought, “okay, I’ll go in 3,2,1.” And nothing happens. Then after a moment the body gets up. No one decided to get up and no one made the body get up. This is something that I noticed which amazes me each time. There is no such thing as making decisions, no one to make them. Things happen by themselves.
Intentions, like in the example above, can seem like something real but they’re not. The “1,2,3” can seem like the intention. Or intention would come after it. But many times nothing happens, even when it seems like “I intended to do this”. There is no such thing as intention.
For there to be free will there has to be someone who is the one who has free will and can make decisions, etc? There is no one here to have free will.
Throughout the day there are many times when there are choices to make. Like what I want to eat. I went to the fridge this morning and there were a few options. After having a few thoughts about whether to eat cheese on toast or yogurt and fruit, the choice was made to go with fruit. But there was no real choice, just thoughts arising saying things in favor of one or the other, and then a thought “fruit” and then “my” hand grabbing it. There was no person to make a choice, the choice was made by itself.
Control is also not existent. No one controls my heart pumping blood, the wind blowing, etc. just as no one control the thoughts that arise or how the body is moving.
There are thoughts about having control which are also not controlled by anyone.
The decision to choose fruit could seem like “I controlled this, I made this decision” but the thought of “choosing” it came up by itself, just like control.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
Responsibility in terms of what I have control over, and in result of this control what I’m responsible for… that doesn’t exist, it’s just another story. For example, I made my boyfriend a carrot cake a week ago. If he likes it or not, it’s not my responsibility. The decision happened to make the cake, but I didn’t make the decision. The actions that I did were ones of wanting him to like it, to make it delicious, out of the emotions and thoughts that came up, but I wasn’t responsible for them or for how it turned out.
6) Anything to add?
I am very curious to see what this shift will bring and feel that there’s still much room for this understanding to become deeper. I’m wondering if you have any more questions for me? I’ll gladly keep investigating if you feel it’s needed.
Again I want to thank you so much Vivien for your patience and detailed guiding.
Hugs,
Dana