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Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:02 pm
by Hopefulness
Hi again,
I expect to be at peace with what is, not wanting a different experience than the experience now. I expect that thoughts "lose truth" and fear, shame and guilt decrease. Being at peace with current experience.

What do you find IN EXPERIENCE other than thoughts of me, that has an expectation, which is itself just another thought? Is the thought of me different than the thought of expectation?

Does the "I" thought have any more weight, importance, or be any more "true" than the expectation thought?

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:35 pm
by Govinda
What do you find IN EXPERIENCE other than thoughts of me, that has an expectation, which is itself just another thought?
IN EXPERIENCE I find seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling.
Thoughts of expectation and of "me" are maybe also part of experience but illusionary.
Is the thought of me different than the thought of expectation?
both fictions
Does the "I" thought have any more weight, importance, or be any more "true" than the expectation thought?
the thought of "I" and the the thought of expectation are equally untrue and weightless. maybe "I" appears as more real while it isn`t...

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:14 pm
by Hopefulness
Hi again,

IN EXPERIENCE I find seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling.

Seeing: Does seeing need the character Sebastian to happen or is seeing just happening?
Hearing: Does hearing need the character Sebastian to happen or is hearing just happening?
Smelling: Does smelling need the character Sebastian to happen or is smelling just happening?
Feeling: Does feeling need the character Sebastian to happen or is feeling just happening?
Tasting: Does tasting need the character Sebastian to happen or is tasting just happening?

Look closely. Don't these things happen by themselves? Do they need "you" to do them?
Does your heart need "you" to pump?
Do your lungs need "you" you breathe?
Do you tell the body sweat?

Life did all of those things before "you" were created.
Life doesn't need "you" to happen, does it? Life doesn't need "Sebastian" to function, does
it?

Time to let go. Look closely.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:44 am
by Govinda
Hi again,

IN EXPERIENCE I find seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling.

Seeing: Does seeing need the character Sebastian to happen or is seeing just happening?
Hearing: Does hearing need the character Sebastian to happen or is hearing just happening?
Smelling: Does smelling need the character Sebastian to happen or is smelling just happening?
Feeling: Does feeling need the character Sebastian to happen or is feeling just happening?
Tasting: Does tasting need the character Sebastian to happen or is tasting just happening?

Look closely. Don't these things happen by themselves? Do they need "you" to do them?
Does your heart need "you" to pump?
Do your lungs need "you" you breathe?
Do you tell the body sweat?

Life did all of those things before "you" were created.
Life doesn't need "you" to happen, does it? Life doesn't need "Sebastian" to function, does
it?

Time to let go. Look closely.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:31 pm
by Hopefulness
Hi again,

Tell me about control.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:42 pm
by Govinda
Hi again,

IN EXPERIENCE I find seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling.

Seeing: Does seeing need the character Sebastian to happen or is seeing just happening?
Hearing: Does hearing need the character Sebastian to happen or is hearing just happening?
Smelling: Does smelling need the character Sebastian to happen or is smelling just happening?
Feeling: Does feeling need the character Sebastian to happen or is feeling just happening?
Tasting: Does tasting need the character Sebastian to happen or is tasting just happening?

Look closely. Don't these things happen by themselves? Do they need "you" to do them?
Does your heart need "you" to pump?
Do your lungs need "you" you breathe?
Do you tell the body sweat?

Life did all of those things before "you" were created.
Life doesn't need "you" to happen, does it? Life doesn't need "Sebastian" to function, does
it?

Time to let go. Look closely.
All bodily functions happen by itself without "me" doing it.
Thinking seems to be owned by "me" at most, but it also happens without "me" being in control.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:47 pm
by Govinda
Hi again,

Tell me about control.
That`s an interesting question. Thoughts say that "I" am in control. ""I" can control breathing, acting, thinking, speaking, etc. and "I" am responsible for it".
But I guess, that control is just a thought and illusionary. there is no one to be in control. maybe life itself is.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:05 pm
by Hopefulness
Hi again,

Nice start. Intellectual understanding comes first. Now let's put it to the test. First of all, don't think of control as control. That always implies or contains a doer. From now on, the question is only action or reaction. Action is an act of will undertaken as a primal mover. Reaction is a secondary movement as a response to action from life. Action is control, reaction is not. From now on, stop at various moments during the day and ask the question, "Is action happening according to "my" own free will, or is there simply reaction going on to what life has presented either in this moment, or some obligation presented in the past but not yet acted upon yet.

Notice every morning when you open your eyes, life is already ahead of you and in your face demanding that you act to survive or else. Pay close attention to the demands of the game in every moment. Notice that even when "you" think you have out-witted it, it has still won, because its only object is to compel you to react.

So here is the exercise. Bring me one example of something "you" did of your own free will and not as a reaction to an action initiated by life, and by life, I mean life as defined in the broadest possible terms.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:15 am
by Govinda
Hi again,

Nice start. Intellectual understanding comes first. Now let's put it to the test. First of all, don't think of control as control. That always implies or contains a doer. From now on, the question is only action or reaction. Action is an act of will undertaken as a primal mover. Reaction is a secondary movement as a response to action from life. Action is control, reaction is not. From now on, stop at various moments during the day and ask the question, "Is action happening according to "my" own free will, or is there simply reaction going on to what life has presented either in this moment, or some obligation presented in the past but not yet acted upon yet.

Notice every morning when you open your eyes, life is already ahead of you and in your face demanding that you act to survive or else. Pay close attention to the demands of the game in every moment. Notice that even when "you" think you have out-witted it, it has still won, because its only object is to compel you to react.

So here is the exercise. Bring me one example of something "you" did of your own free will and not as a reaction to an action initiated by life, and by life, I mean life as defined in the broadest possible terms.
I don`t really understand the exercise. Is sitting in the sun compelled by life?

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:17 am
by Govinda
So here is the exercise. Bring me one example of something "you" did of your own free will and not as a reaction to an action initiated by life, and by life, I mean life as defined in the broadest possible terms.
In the broadest possible terms life is not separate from "free will".

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:37 pm
by Hopefulness
Hi again,

Explain.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:03 am
by Govinda
Hi there, have been on a non duality Retreat and another Trauma Healing Retreat the last weak.
Hi again,

Explain.
"Free Will" is part of life; not separate from life.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:36 pm
by Govinda
Hi again,

Explain.
You wanted to know an action that is not initiated by life in the broadest sense. I answer that life in the broadest sense is everything. Nothing is separate from life in the broadest sense.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:53 pm
by Hopefulness
Hi again,


Your answers are tending more towards the theoretical than the practical. Let me be more specific. Name one ACTION that the body/mind complex takes during the day that is proof that "Sebastian" performed an act of free will. This could be something as simple as getting a glass of water, going to the bank, watching T.V., or anything else.

Re: Way of Suffering

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:11 pm
by Govinda
Hi again,


Your answers are tending more towards the theoretical than the practical. Let me be more specific. Name one ACTION that the body/mind complex takes during the day that is proof that "Sebastian" performed an act of free will. This could be something as simple as getting a glass of water, going to the bank, watching T.V., or anything else.
Playing a computer game might be an act of "free will", isn`t it?