Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to dependan

[JonathanR]

Sorry Sandy, I'm spreading confusion. Don't bother with the 'view your posts' click on the bit about having new messages.

Thanks,

Jon

[JonathanR]

Hi Sandy.let's pick up the inquiry again.

We were talking about soul a while ago. That came up from answers to those six questions I asked you. Thing is, 'self' is not properly seen through whilst there is belief that someone, (me) thinks (my own) thoughts. And needs to be a seeing that there is no 'doer' (someone that makes things happen). Many people seem to notice that a 'self' can't be found but it can take rather more looking into experience in order to really see that nobody makes anything happen.

What do you think of what I say here?

What makes things happen?



love

Jon

[ilazmit]

Hi Jon,

Life makes things happen. Perhaps there is no making , there just is.

love
Sandy

[JonathanR]

How do you mean, Sandy? That life is just happening, like a rollercoaster ride?


Jon

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,
I see it as more like a river or the ocean. But those are thoughts and words, and images. I think I am life and it is the great mystery. Words are what mind has come up with in order to have some semblance of control over reality so that we may function. Life is " ", and some how it happens.

Sandy

[JonathanR]

Hi Sandy,

Words are what mind has come up with in order to have some semblance of control over reality so that we may function. Life is " ", and some how it happens.

Do these words create actual control over reality or is somenthing else going on that amounts to the appearance of control?

i'd like you to examine your immediate experience and answer the following questions, please? Not from memory or from reasoning but directly from looking at experience here and now?

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a self that is 'the doer', or can control what happens?

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?


Best wishes,


Jon

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,

It all flows. No Selfie.

Love
Sandy

[JonathanR]

OK. Thanks.

How about this question then?...

Can "the body" be found to be any more than label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?


Jon

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,

Can "the body" be found to be any more than label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

I f what you mean is that the body's sole function is to label that which it senses from birth to death and that's it , I would agree with that.
Sandy

[JonathanR]

H Sandy

I f what you mean is that the body's sole function is to label that which it senses from birth to death and that's it , I would agree with that.

Not really. Is there an experience of a body labelling sensations?

I meant, look at immediate sensations such as touch, taste, hearing, seeing, smell. Here and now, in each case there is undeniable sensation. Look. Is 'a body' found, (other than as an idea?).

Going for a walk, is there an experience of 'legs' when looking up at the sky? or is there simply the experience of what happens in that very moment?

Jon

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,
No there is no body found. When going for a walk there is the sound of the birds, the glare of the sun , the sound of snow crunching and the sensation of snow melting.

Sandy

[JonathanR]

Hi sandy,

Thank you for that answer.

Remember question 5)?

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Please have a go at answering it again? The main import in this question is about control. Is there a 'you' that controls events? How do you see that things happen?

When you answer, try to keep it brief and reply from direct experience.


Best wishes,

Jon

[ilazmit]

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Hello Jon,

There is no seperate I that has any control over thoughts. They drift by like clouds in the sky. So there is no separate entity to make things happen.
For example, there is no control over the thoughts of missing a loved one, if there was, such painful thoughts would be eliminated. Just embrace and let them flow, don't have a choice and they flow by because of my having come across you, Jon. Appreciation from the heart.

sandy

[JonathanR]

Hi Sandy,

There is no seperate I that has any control over thoughts. They drift by like clouds in the sky. So there is no separate entity to make things happen.

True and true. Thanks for the succinct answer.

But things still get done, don't they? Hair gets brushed, shopping happens. What about the intention to do these things? How can they happen if there is no self making them happen?


Thanks,

Jon

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,

Life is what makes things happen.

Love
Sandy