Searching for a guide

[KevinD]

Interesting that you focused on that.
There are two telling words that phrase.
As you pointed out, there's "we."
It's hard to speak from direct experience in second person.
So I'm urging you back to the present and to speak from your felt sense.

The word I was pointing to was "think."
Because that's the verb pinning that whole sentence together, what does that tell you about this "I" character?

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

Since I used the word "think", it must mean that the "I" identity is made up of a bunch of thoughts. I feel that from my experience. However, it doesn't feel like "I" don't exist completely. Maybe "I" is a bunch of thoughts that change from moment to moment, but can't "I" be an entity that exists in flux? As of now, it feels to me that the "I" is a fluid entity.

[KevinD]

Sorry, Hashim,
I need this from your direct experience.
Keep looking.

[KevinD]

Let me put this in present tense so DE will be easier to access.
List all of proof do you have right now that the I is more than a thought?

Also for good measure, list the reasons that it is a thought,

To mix this up a bit, on that list, precede it with a T if it is thinking and E if the answer comes from experience.

Thanks,
Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

List all of proof do you have right now that the I is more than a thought?

First of all, all the sensations I have of the physical body, feels to me to be proof that the I is more than a thought. Being hungry, having pain, feeling sleepy, etc. These cannot be thoughts can they?

The physical body is not a thought. It feels to me that the "I" is housed in this body.

There are thoughts that make up the self-identity of "I", which are always changing. Even though the thoughts always change, whatever thought is present, I feel identified with it.

Also for good measure, list the reasons that it is a thought,

The thoughts that make up the self-identity are always changing. Thoughts come from nowhere and disappear on their own. In that sense, the "I" is made of thoughts.

[KevinD]

Thank you, Hashim.

That which you know yourself to be, that which supercedes all thoughts, feelings, sensations and emotions (let's call it divine presence), does that ever change?

[KevinD]

And Hashim,

I sense some frustration.
I can get how you would feel that way, but believe me, this is solid gold.
We're going to pan at this spot until there's no more to get.
Stay with it, and don't lose hope.
I couldn't be happier with this find!

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

That which you know yourself to be, that which supercedes all thoughts, feelings, sensations and emotions (let's call it divine presence), does that ever change?

No it doesn't change. I have experienced it briefly in meditation as just pure emptiness. I can see that all my thoughts experiences, sensations are what is painted on this blank canvas.

[KevinD]

So, if I understand correctly, what you are is forever unchanging and seen most clearly in meditation.
Is this something you feel deeply and without question!

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

So, if I understand correctly, what you are is forever unchanging and seen most clearly in meditation.
Is this something you feel deeply and without question!

I have experienced something that is unchanging, but only very briefly. The rest of my day is still filled with thoughts, and sensations of the body. I can remind myself that all that I am experiencing during the day is phenomena, and that there is an unchanging awareness of it. But it still feels like a lot of work of trying to remind myself of it. I guess I want to have a more permanent awareness of it.

[KevinD]

Hashim,

Please don't get hung up on the alleged lack of permanence of the awareness.
As you pointed out, without flinching, Consciousness is permanent and unchanging.
Awareness of it is often the same, but sometimes on a much subtler level.
I want you to check in and determine in this very
Moment what you really are.
If you feel better settling with some meditation, I encourage it.
Now do it, and report back.

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

I know that there is an emptiness that is always present. However, now I'm not sure I can even say with conviction that that presence is the true me, or whether the everchanging thoughts are. If the presence is the truth, then I should be able to be conscious of it all the time. This work has been breaking down all my beliefs, so I am not sure what is true anymore.

[KevinD]

:)
You're cracking me up.
There's a LOT of thinking going on here--some story telling too.
Fun stuff!
It's all as real as Cat in the Hat!
You must be getting close to something here cuz there's an apparent ego here that's scared shitless.
This is so familiar, it's frightening.
You only see tracer fire when you're over your target.
I want you back in direct experience--story time is over.
Thank the mind for showing up, but it's dismissed.

In direct experience only (here and now with the felt sense) reach down and tell me if any of that story is true

No more stories, Hashim, the laughter at work will get me fired.
Then I'm moving into your basement!
Lol
Dig deep,

Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

I hope I didn't make you laugh too much.

In direct experience only (here and now with the felt sense) reach down and tell me if any of that story is true

I know that my stories aren't true. Everything in our lives are stories. The thing is, even if we know it is a story, they still seem to run our lives in one way or another. When certain thought and emotions arise, I'll know they are stories and will pass after a time, but still they seem to take over me.

I think the main question of what I'm supposed to answer is:

I want you to check in and determine in this very
Moment what you really are.

This is the million dollar question, and I wish I knew the answer. From my experience, I would say that I am the awareness that is aware of all of the experiences and phenomena. The thoughts come and go, emotions change constantly, the body is always changing, so these are not the true self. The unchanging observer or awareness of all of the changing phenomena, would have to be the true self.

[KevinD]

Hashim,

Thanks for continuing to hang with it.
Perseverance, I feel, will pay off.

Here's where I sense we're stuck right now.
None of the answers lately have come from direct experience. This is curious, because during our first round, it all came from direct experience.
So I know you know what it is.

I asked you earlier to make a list.
Preceding each answer would be a letter--E for direct experience, and T for thought.
We never got around to the letter part of that, but I feel it's an important exercise right now as DE seems to have taken a back seat to thinking.

List for me all the reasons I is just a thought.

List for me all the reasons I is not just a thought.


Do these separately, and label each and every answer with an E or a T.
Then we have a good idea where the answer came from.
(It's actually super easy to see from here, but I want you to hone into that).

Good luck Hashim,

Kevin