Looking for a final push

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

It's weird, thought was/is kind of a reference point, it would give praise if I did something good and scold me for doing something bad, and that was a comfort. But now I'm seeing that it's just so clumsy, it's like a parrot, it says things that it hears but it doesn't know why or what they mean, I feel in a kind of no man's land because the reference point is just nonsense, so no comfort can be derived from it. Sometimes the no man's land is scary but most of the time it's irrelevant. I mean, even these thoughts about no man's land are just thoughts, so the whole thing I just wrote is rubbish.

And is this a problem? If so to what? What is meaningless? Is it just a label from thought? Does doing still happen?
Is this freeing? Where is limitation?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

And is this a problem? If so to what?

It's a problem for thought, and so it's a problem for the 'me', I guess it feels vulnerable. I can't really describe it though.

What is meaningless?

There is no evidence of meaning, but that's not to say there isn't. And yes it is a label.

Does doing still happen?

Yeah nothing has changed with regard to doing, I guess the deeds that are done are just conditioned to be like that.

Is this freeing?

Sometimes there are feelings of freedom, it's like a letting go.

Where is limitation?

There is limitation in the sense that I am limited to this experience, and that I can't have any experience at any time. For example I can't be in Australia in 5 minutes, or I can't be taller. This is what limitation means to me anyway. I've heard people say that they feel limitless or infinite, and I really don't know what they mean.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel
Happy Christmas!

It's a problem for thought, and so it's a problem for the 'me', I guess it feels vulnerable. I can't really describe it though.

So go to that feeling and see if you can pinpoint the exact spot where this vulnerable ‘me’ is. Can you find it? Or is that a thought or story attached to a feeling?

Is this freeing?

Sometimes there are feelings of freedom, it's like a letting go.

And how does that feel?

It's weird, thought was/is kind of a reference point, it would give praise if I did something good and scold me for doing something bad, and that was a comfort. But now I'm seeing that it's just so clumsy, it's like a parrot

And what happens if thought isn't referenced first? Does that ever happen? Or what happens when this is just watched instead of engaged with?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

Merry Christmas to you too!

So go to that feeling and see if you can pinpoint the exact spot where this vulnerable ‘me’ is. Can you find it? Or is that a thought or story attached to a feeling?

It's mostly just a thought image (more like a video) in the future, like, 'what if this happens?' 'I have to avoid this', of a vulnerable person, 'me'. But it's possible for it to be seen that this thought is just a guess at what will happen, and then that's when the freedom comes in. It's just thought creating a worse-case scenario to protect itself or something like that.

And how does that feel?

Nice.

And what happens if thought isn't referenced first? Does that ever happen? Or what happens when this is just watched instead of engaged with?

Yeah if it's seen that what thought says isn't necessarily true when it props up the 'me' or brings it down, then that's where the sense of being lost comes in, I've been listening to what thought says about other people, what it thinks other people think of me, what it thinks I should or shouldn't do and what's wrong and right for so long, that now I don't know about any of those things. It's hard to describe so maybe it doesn't make sense.

Have a good Christmas xx

[Sarah7]

Hey Daniel!

Yeah if it's seen that what thought says isn't necessarily true when it props up the 'me' or brings it down, then that's where the sense of being lost comes in, I've been listening to what thought says about other people, what it thinks other people think of me, what it thinks I should or shouldn't do and what's wrong and right for so long, that now I don't know about any of those things. It's hard to describe so maybe it doesn't make sense.

Well it does within the context of ‘I’ propping itself up! LOL. BUT what now – is thought content true?

Nice.

And is this expected to remain? Or be permanent? If so by what?
So is there any more confusion anywhere? Anything else you would like to look at?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

BUT what now – is thought content true?

Not in the absolute sense, no. Because words aren't primary.

And is this expected to remain? Or be permanent? If so by what?

No it doesn't stay, only for a few minutes.

So is there any more confusion anywhere? Anything else you would like to look at?

Well in one sense there is total confusion, but no I don't think there is anything more to say.

Thanks xx

[Sarah7]

So then Daniel - how would you answer these now?

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?

Hugs Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Hey Daniel
Happy New Year!
Are you OK?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

Hello, Happy New Year. Sorry I was waiting for a good time to go through these questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, just an image in thought.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Well, the separate self seems strongest when it creates images in the mind of a past self and a future self and intertwines them to create an imagined solid entity. I don't think 'word thoughts' have as much power as these images. As for when it starts, I don't know.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It's hard to say, I wouldn't say I feel better or worse, there seems to be an oscillation between mild joy and mild depression at the moment, I don't know if this is part of it.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Just keeping checking if there is an 'I' every time it's required, not really something in particular.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Although it seems as if I am in control, there is no way to explain it, nor is there any evidence for it. I couldn't prove to you that it's me picking up the cup and I can't prove that anything other than picking up the cup could have happened. But I'm not expecting to feel like there is no control, that would be a strange experience, there never has been control so there is nothing to get rid of to experience 'no control'.

6) Anything to add?
Just thanks for your time and patience.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel
Thank you for your patience too!
I want you to place your hands face down on a table. Feel the sensations of touch. Notice the thoughts about table, texture, weight etc. Don't worry if thought wanders! Eventually a hand will move. Who or what did it. Watch like a cat watching a mouse hole. Is it 'you'? Is it thought? Or did it just move. Keep looking and see what is noticed!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

I noticed that thought was trying to guess when the hand was going to move saying things like; "Nothing's gonna happen I might as well stop now", "I'll lift the hand NOW" and other things, and creating images of what's going to happen once the hands have moved.

I can see that there is nothing to move the hand, but that doesn't feel or look like anything.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

I noticed that thought was trying to guess when the hand was going to move saying things like; "Nothing's gonna happen I might as well stop now", "I'll lift the hand NOW" and other things, and creating images of what's going to happen once the hands have moved. I can see that there is nothing to move the hand,

It is clear there is no one controlling here? This is seen now?

but that doesn't feel or look like anything.

I don’t understand. Can you explain please?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

It is clear there is no one controlling here? This is seen now?

Well it seems obvious that there is no one controlling, but at the same time it seems like I could be fooling myself, so I don't know. How clear is it meant to be? It feels more true to me to say 'There is no evidence that there is any control', I don't know why, but to say 'There is no control' feels like I'm trying to hard to believe it. Do you see what I mean? Not believing in something isn't the same as believing in the opposite of something.

I don’t understand. Can you explain please?

Well I used to have an expectation that to see there is no free will would mean I could then sit back, relax and enjoy life as it played itself out, while I'm just watching, which would feel/look different to believing in free will. But what I'm saying is that actually it doesn't look or feel any different, because it isn't any different. This also makes me uneasy because I'm worried I haven't quite got it lol, I mean, (almost) everything still feels empty, meaningless, pointless, boring, a burden. So either this means I haven't seen it, or it isn't worth seeing (in my case).

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

Well it seems obvious that there is no one controlling, but at the same time it seems like I could be fooling myself, so I don't know. How clear is it meant to be? It feels more true to me to say 'There is no evidence that there is any control', I don't know why, but to say 'There is no control' feels like I'm trying to hard to believe it. Do you see what I mean? Not believing in something isn't the same as believing in the opposite of something.

Agreed. So you find no evidence or neither do you experience a controlling someone?

Well I used to have an expectation that to see there is no free will would mean I could then sit back, relax and enjoy life as it played itself out, while I'm just watching, which would feel/look different to believing in free will. But what I'm saying is that actually it doesn't look or feel any different, because it isn't any different. This also makes me uneasy because I'm worried I haven't quite got it lol,

And worried is what? So without that thought of worrying?????

I mean, (almost) everything still feels empty, meaningless, pointless, boring, a burden. So either this means I haven't seen it, or it isn't worth seeing (in my case).

Was there a point before outside of thought?
Does doing still happen?
Empty meaningless etc – are all what - descriptions/labels of experience? Is the feeling/sensation really ‘pointlessness’ outside of thought? Or is that all story overlay?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

Agreed. So you find no evidence or neither do you experience a controlling someone?

No controller.

And worried is what? So without that thought of worrying?????

Yeah thought is all that wants something else, it's all that's wanted anything ever. But then when I see this, there's just nothing, there's nothing more I can say.

Was there a point before outside of thought?

No.

Does doing still happen?

Yeah

Empty meaningless etc – are all what - descriptions/labels of experience? Is the feeling/sensation really ‘pointlessness’ outside of thought? Or is that all story overlay?

Yeah they're just labels but that just doesn't help, everything doesn't get better when I see that the pointlessness/boredom/meaninglessness is just a thought, it's more fundamental than that, or maybe not, but it doesn't seem to matter.

xx