At the front door, waiting for you

[kenbok]

The idea of an "I" is not a self. Agree?

[1llusion]

Yes.

[1llusion]

An observation: The thought "It feels like I have seen it, but am afraid to accept it." reoccurs quite often.

[kenbok]

Very good. GO into the fear and tell me more about the experience. Can you find I there?

[1llusion]

I can't find it right now; will try again.

[1llusion]

To be more specific: I can't find this fear right now.

[kenbok]

That's good, but that's not really what I'm guiding here - I'm saying, is there a self, amidst the fear? Even though there is 'no fear' currently, who is to say there won't be anxiety, stress, whatever the next thing is associated with this? So stay with whatever is present, and just look. Is there a self?

[1llusion]

I'd like to say: "No, there is no self and I know it!", but for some reason it feels 'wrong' so I am hesitant.

[1llusion]

I'm still there, so to say. :d

[kenbok]

I'd like to say: "No, there is no self and I know it!", but for some reason it feels 'wrong' so I am hesitant.

Very good. What is this 'wrong'? Where in the body is it? What does it feel like? Tell me a little bit about it?

The one that thinks, or the one that thinks it thinks: can you find a center to it?

[1llusion]

What is this 'wrong'? Where in the body is it? What does it feel like? Tell me a little bit about it?

There is a tightness in the chest and sometimes around the throat.

The one that thinks, or the one that thinks it thinks: can you find a center to it?

No, there is no center to whatever it is that produces thought and a thought itself has no locality.

[kenbok]

B, I think you have seen no-self, but somehow there is still lingering fear or doubt that it is 'it'. This is also associated with intellectualization of what the 'right answer' is, instead of answering from your experience. (although I think this has reduced much in the last 1/2 weeks)

So... maybe coming back to honesty - this process is just for 'you'. No doubt, this is a public thread, but myself and other guides are just that - to facilitate the process for you. There is no right or wrong answer, other than the raw truth of what your experience is.

Just wanted to mention that again.

------

Look into the tightness in the chest and the throat. Does this sensation spread? Is it still there now?
This 'feeling' that you have about it being 'wrong' - is that still there?

All these things are just symptoms - they come and go. But they do indicate things that distract you from seeing clearly. When they are 'seen through', CHECK in your total experience: Is there a self? Has there ever been?

[1llusion]

What you write in the first part is also my understanding, thanks.

Does this sensation spread? Is it still there now?

No, it is not always there. Sometimes it is possible to provoke it by repeating "I dont exist" or a variant of that in my head or by simulating the writing of it in this forum. It does not spread. Sometimes it is mixed with a kind of shivering sensation coming from the top of my head (not sure, could also be throat) -- which is labeled as "pleasant".

This 'feeling' that you have about it being 'wrong' - is that still there?

'wrong' is just a label associated with the described set of feelings; yes, the label re-appears when the feelings are examined closer for why they exist. The idea of it being 'wrong' comes from (or is) the fear of prematurely admitting to having 'seen it', while it is not actually true (which goes back to what happened at the beginning of this thread).

The need of thought to conceptualize the seeing arises in order to be able to surely admit its happening.

[1llusion]

Is there a self? Has there ever been?

Still struggeling with a clear answer; will continue looking.

[1llusion]

Still there, still struggeling (kinda): The belief is now that there is actually nothing to do; might that be another mind-trick?

Its still clear that I should continue looking, however, it is also clear that I can't do a thing and just give in to whatever the mind/body does. This is still accompanied with the fear of an eventual failure to be fully liberated.