who would like to guide me?

[tsaheylu]

heya annie!

So you have an expectation that the experience should be of joy and wonder? Expectations are just thoughts about how things should be. And expectations keep us away from experiencing the joy and wonder that is there in the 'same ole, same ole.' Let the expectations go, liv.

Yes.

Can the experience right now be any different than it actually is?

no.

Aliveness = the sensation of being alive, that's it, simple.

Since there is no sensation of truely being dead because death does not exist, only transformation, and all i ever know and have known is perception, i cannot relate to aliveness being a sensation. To me that word describes a quality of perception. A very positive one at that. Even 'the sensation of being alive' to my mind means a very positive quality.
Qualities are always labels and labels only work with comparison. as alive is a quality when i feel very good, very much in a natural flow, expanded, relaxed, positive thinking, appreciating the moment and when it's joyful on top of that i would use the word 'alive' as a description of how (quality) i feel.

Most of the time i would give the label 'dead' as it is the opposite of alive. But these are just labels the mind gives in comparison of different qualities to eachother. It is within the realm of believing thought, story and phenomena. It is not coming from direct experiencing.

When you're feeling bored, can you see that it's a thought of 'I don't like how things are?'.

Yes. I tell myself that all the time when the labelling of 'boring' or 'dull' or such shows up. And i ask: who is bored?

Can you see that even without that thought, there is still a sensation of being alive?

I wouldn't call it alive. Because to me it sounds like: „without the thought labelling this moment as boring, can you see that there is still the sensation of feeling good“?

And what it is, is, that without the thought-label „boring“ it's just what it is. And perhaps the next thought-label might be „still“, which is neutral. When there is a negative thought-label that is dropped, then there is just perception for a moment until the compulsive thinking kicks in again.

For me, just awareness or just perception, which is always, is not the same as aliveness.
Awareness or perception do not have opposites or negations, they have no content and qualities.

Can you see that without the thought of 'I' not liking how things are, boredom isn't possible?

Yes. That is what the thought/feeling e.g. of 'boredom' always points me back to. First i realize, this is another way of saying: „I don't like this moment“, or „I'd rather have a different experience“. Then I remind myself that it takes a belief in a thought containing the premise of there being a seperate self, an 'i', in order to believe the thought: „this is boring“ or „i don't like this“. And then i ask:“who is bored?“, „who doesn't like this moment“. This quiets down the mind for a moment and all there is left is direct perception, without the labelling/describing filter of thoughts woven into story, all coming from the premise of a seperate self.

And when the thought and the feeling of boredom do arise, they just arise, to no-one.

Yes, thank you dear friend for reminding me you are awesome!!!

Can you see that the sensation of aliveness is always present, regardless of what else is happening in experience?

The word that would resonate with me instead of 'the sensation of aliveness' is awareness or perception. I don't mean to be nitpicky annie :))), i know what you mean. But i want to be able to hear, write and read this and be able for it to resonate with my mind describing direct experience.

So if the sentence heard:“can you see that awareness is always present, regardless of what else is happening in experience?

The only „things“ that can be happening in experience is perception and when nothing is percieved through the five senses and no thinking is happening, there is still awareness; of nothing. (oops, i don't think i know this from direct experience, this must be an assumption)

What else, other than percieving could be happening in experience. I am curious.

Everything else would be a content of thought wouldn't it? Not really happening other than content of thought. And what would be happening is that thought where percieved.

Ok, say i am reading a newsstory in the papers. What is happening in experience? Reading letters, seeing a photo, believing thoughts about those letters and that photo. But the content of the thoughts that say „this is really happening right now, somewhere else on the planet“ is content of thought and imaginary, not experience.

So what else could there be happening in experience other than perception, which is all the senses plus thought? And awareness thereof?

It seems like perception needs senses and awareness just is...

i wonder if there is no seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, feeling, thinking...there would still be awareness of simply being. But this is going too far, because this is not my direct experience and has never been as long as i can remember at that. So it's irrelevant, isn't it?

So i guess awareness and perception are interexchangable words pointing to the same.

Much love,

liv

[odemira]

Hi liv,
am travelling today, will reply tmr
love
annie

[tsaheylu]

thank you annie,
happy travels :)

[odemira]

Hi liv,

love how the clarity is shining brighter and brighter with you :) ...................

The word that would resonate with me instead of 'the sensation of aliveness' is awareness or perception. I don't mean to be nitpicky annie :))), i know what you mean. But i want to be able to hear, write and read this and be able for it to resonate with my mind describing direct experience.

Accepted!

So what else could there be happening in experience other than perception, which is all the senses plus thought? And awareness thereof?

Yes, can anything else be found than this? Just look and check it out again in direct experience.

So i guess awareness and perception are interexchangable words pointing to the same.

You are right - but don't guess, look and check this out.

i wonder if there is no seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, feeling, thinking...there would still be awareness of simply being. But this is going too far, because this is not my direct experience and has never been as long as i can remember at that. So it's irrelevant, isn't it?

For our purposes here, yes, it's irrelevant.

So dear liv, are you to be found anywhere other than as the imaginary subject of a thought? Can a separate self be found anywhere?

with love
annie

[tsaheylu]

annie,
i'm workin on it right now.
i'm enjoying becoming more clear by investigating.
sometimes the investigating happens as i am writing,
as is the case in this next post.

[odemira]

:)

[tsaheylu]

good morning annie :)

thank you for your post!

So what else could there be happening in experience other than perception, which is all the senses plus thought? And awareness thereof?

Yes, can anything else be found than this? Just look and check it out again in direct experience.

Ok. the thought keeps coming, „well, everything exists in the universe of form. This (mine) is just one perspective. e.g. My mom, the eifeltower, the sofa in the livingroom upstairs, all forms that have come into meeting with this perspective, whether directly or via some kind of media-communication-connection-device (such as photo, motion picture, telephone) and all those that haven't, still exist, eventhough they are not being directly experienced from this perspective at the moment, other than as a content of thought.“

so i guess the word „experience“ must be defined. Because the core of the above question is:“ what else could be happening in experience [...]“.

how i understand the word experience is: percieving; which entails that it's happening here and now. „Here“ meaning from this perspective, hence from or through this body. „Now“ meaning outside of conceptual time. As time is a concept, content of thought, it is subject to perception, percieving through that concept „time“. „Now“ is so immedeate, the moment thought describes „now“, that „Now“ refered to, is already passed. thought always laggs behind that which it describes. word is thought. Yet „now“ is a good and simple word to point to timeless immediacy.

So experience is here, now, or through this body, timeless, immediate. All percieving happens here, now.

So in experience, here and now, there is only percieving, all senses plus thinking at the same time, seamlessly happening.

blessings,liv

[tsaheylu]

further investigation:

i've heard this question several times within the non-duality communication:

„is the tree still there if i cannot percieve it?“

the more i ponder on this, the more i notice it's a merry-go-round of thinking, although not so merry, rather weary.

If its not in experience, it's not here-now-percieving, then it's content of thought, imagination.

Of course my mother and the sofa upstairs in the livingroom exist, eventhough, there is no perception of them just now other than as a content of thought. That does not make them unreal, or imaginary.

What is important to realize however is, that the thought of my mother, or the sofa upstairs, is not my mother or the sofa upstairs, it's a thought.

[odemira]

Hi Liv,

So experience is here, now, or through this body, timeless, immediate. All percieving happens here, now. So in experience, here and now, there is only percieving, all senses plus thinking at the same time, seamlessly happening.

YES. This is IT. A kaleidoscope of experiencing.

The question is, does this experience still feel as if it happens to a 'you'? Does it still feel as if it belongs to a 'you'? If so, look for that 'you' - can it be found? Is there any separation of 'your' perceiving from the seamless whole?

If its not in experience, it's not here-now-percieving, then it's content of thought, imagination.

YES exactly. How does it feel to realise this?

Ever brighter, dear liv :)
with love
annie

[tsaheylu]

hello annie,

thank you so much for your post.
i am ill today, fever, pain, headache, feeling miserable.
will adress those questions as soon as i feel better.
:)

[odemira]

sending good wishes for you to feel better soon :)
i am travelling again over the next few days and not sure about internet access, but will check in on your posts as soon as I possibly can.

[tsaheylu]

good morning annie :)

does this experience still feel as if it happens to a 'you'? Does it still feel as if it belongs to a 'you'? If so, look for that 'you' - can it be found? Is there any separation of 'your' perceiving from the seamless whole?

Yes, it feels that way. I want to say „all the time“. I can tell myself „it's not happening to me“, i can ask myself „who is it happening to?“, i can remind myself of the investigations and that i found no seperate self, and this functions like consolation „everything is ok“, like hope, like a trying to sooth the soarness from believing in story. However it happens on the same level, that of story. It's a different radio channel, with a positive message of salvation, however it's still radio, it's just another story. It does not stop the dynamic of compulsive thinking on behalf of the idea of a seperate self, it does not seem to even undermine the feeling of a 'me'. It even seems to create resistance and more anxiety, in other words an even stronger dynamic of thinking compulsively on behalf of the idea of a seperate self.

Since this feeling of constant anxiety is very uncomfortable, this also has been resulting in dropping thought altogether more often. It's the only exit door and the only relief there seems to be: dropping thinking, and focussing on senses. This only lasts a few seconds until thinking comes back in.

In my experience that is all i can do, is dropping thought. Since 'i' only exist as a story, hence in thought. So for me it's not, „ i feel like XYZ, now that i have seen this“. Because it's not like i have seen this. The moment thought begins it's gone, content of thought and just another story, imagination as well, just another idea of there being no 'me'.

If its not in experience, it's not here-now-percieving, then it's content of thought, imagination.

YES exactly. How does it feel to realise this?

There is no difference. Content of thought still creates lots of anxiety and reaction. The movie still feels real, scares and troubles me. Knowing that there is no one to be scared, does not change it's effects. The only relief and saving grace seems to be to drop thinking.

The courage to drop thinking and thereby let go of managing, let go of controle, let go of figuring out, let go of being right, let go of blaming, let go of feeling victimized and sorry for myself, even if it's just for a few seconds, is the conceptual knowing of there being no manager or controler or any-one seperate.

Much love and such gratitude for you dear annie,
liv

[odemira]

dear liv,

The movie still feels real, scares and troubles me. Knowing that there is no one to be scared, does not change it's effects. The only relief and saving grace seems to be to drop thinking.

I understand that life can feel scary. And as you say relief comes in the thinking dropping (if it's dropping, then that's what's happening, no you controlling that). If you open the door and there's a hungry lion roaring outside, then you are probably in danger and your body will react, fight or flight. There's a real lion there. In what scares you in your story, is it real danger or imaginary danger? Real danger can be touched, seen, heard etc, imaginary danger only exists in thoughts. What is real doesn't disappear when you stop believing in it.

The courage to drop thinking and thereby let go of managing, let go of controle, let go of figuring out, let go of being right, let go of blaming, let go of feeling victimized and sorry for myself, even if it's just for a few seconds, is the conceptual knowing of there being no manager or controler or any-one seperate.

Can you find the 'one' that manages?
can you find the 'one' that controls, that figures things out?
Can you find the 'one' that needs to be right, or blame, or feels sorry?
As you say, this 'one' only exists in the thoughts that the mind puts together to create a story of liv.

In the reality of what is directly experienced, what is there? Tell me what is there without the story. As you type your reply, what is there that isn't a story?

Keep checking in direct experiencing, liv.
with love
annie

[tsaheylu]

hello annie :)))

thank you for your reply!

In what scares you in your story, is it real danger or imaginary danger? Real danger can be touched, seen, heard etc, imaginary danger only exists in thoughts. What is real doesn't disappear when you stop believing in it.

it's in thought. it feels like i am on a slide, sliding toward something aweful, and i can either make it work somehow with behaviour or i can make it worse with behaviour and then the trying to figure out what to do best and how to avoid worst. but even so it feels doomed and there is a compulsive thinking of how could i possibly get out of this or make it better. fear of the future. always problems are presented and the feeling it's in my hands and yet i feel powerless at the same time.

so, yes, i am still afraid of content of thought. it seems real then, eventhough i am ususally lying in bed when this fear becomes so strong, because it seems like i am sliding toward something aweful which i need to protect myself from.

i guess i need to really see, that this is a dynamic of mind, which happens and that what i am afraid of or what is bringing up fear and anxiety is just thoughts. i want this to become very clear.

[tsaheylu]

Can you find the 'one' that manages?
can you find the 'one' that controls, that figures things out?
Can you find the 'one' that needs to be right, or blame, or feels sorry?
As you say, this 'one' only exists in the thoughts that the mind puts together to create a story of liv.

it's a strong dynamic of thinking which gives the impression of me thinking, figuring out, controling,
feeling sorry for, blaming, needing to be right. i want to wake up and keep realizing that these are
thinking dynamics happening, just like what i am writing right now, is appearing. no seperate self doing it, however it still seems that way. keep turning around and look where that thought came from, i say to myself.