Step 5, doubt, and wanting to be done with this

[avare]

Is this shame?

now that you point it out, yes, yes it is. interesting how sometimes its not obvious until it is!

What happens when shame gets enough attention that attention is lost to everything else that is happening now?

I will take a good deep look into this because just pondering about doing this exercise I already felt a visceral shame reaction

[bluzulu]

let the visceral reaction do whatever it wants to do while you relax wide open to all your senses.
stay with that as much as you can, see what happens.

words and thoughts about it will happen, just relax back open to your senses. use the exercise I sent.

remember--it's learning to RELAX open

[avare]

let the visceral reaction do whatever it wants to do while you relax wide open to all your senses.
stay with that as much as you can, see what happens.

words and thoughts about it will happen, just relax back open to your senses. use the exercise I sent.

remember--it's learning to RELAX open

couple things I noticed doing this: (1), the shame feeling that comes up doesn't really seem to be something that can be 'tried', as in sitting relaxing open I cant feel it unless its happening, no willing it or calling it up so to speak; (2) when it is just felt it goes away pretty quickly and does not feel at all bad or uncomfortable, but this is also mostly noticed as the narrative as it is happening--thoughts saying oh its just a feelin, its not actually bad etc; (3) this is not an exercise that I can do but is more something that happens when it happens, when the shame comes up during the day I relax open but I haven't managed to just sit and try to feel into the shame/discomfort.

overall, very happy with this inquiry/your words bringing focus into this, so thank you for that!

[bluzulu]

cool.

you don't have to actually sit and try to feel it.
tho that might end up happening.

you are a body.
maybe you are a body that feels good doing some kinds of things with other people.

maybe you are a body that feels good doing other things.

whatever your body is doing, that's what you are doing so relax open to all the experiences as they are happening
thoughts come and go. like insects outdoors, or smells, or sounds, or breezes, etc etc etc.
your body will do whatever is in front of it (literally or metaphorically) and that will be what you are doing.
unless there is resistance, attention to ideas of what 'should' be happening or happen in the future or what 'should' have been different in the past. i.e., suffering.

[bluzulu]

And whatever is in your attention, that's what you are

[avare]

whatever your body is doing, that's what you are doing so relax open to all the experiences as they are happening
...
unless there is resistance, attention to ideas of what 'should' be happening or happen in the future or what 'should' have been different in the past. i.e., suffering.

again, I think it just takes you pointing things out for me to notice the obvious! just like how you mentioned the other day about 'fantasies', there's been a consistent narrative about how 'waking up' is supposed to be. As in, all it takes is seated practice and a bunch of hours of it until filters drop. but all that that narrative has done is caused resistance when whatever is happening is not practice. it is about relaxing open all the time, because this is what is here now. thank you for writing this, often feels like I both 'know' exactly what 'should' happen and then not notice the obvious.

[bluzulu]

:-)

[bluzulu]

And whatever is in your attention is you, always in change and flow.

[avare]

thank you for both this reminder and vince's substack you forwarded :)

i always like reading his stories and i subuscribed ever since your previous one you sent me!

[bluzulu]

Cool, Lucas.

How are you spending your days now?

[avare]

mostly the same these past few weeks. a lot of reading (entertainment, not seeking), spending time with my parents and pretty much nothing else. being on break I have no responsibilities for another month or two, while I'd like to practice more, whenever I notice wanting or resisting what is happening, I just relax open and then it passes after a bit.

I am enjoying my time, but there is still some nagging thoughts about how spending this time this way is just letting the mind focus in something, being distracted really, rather than being relaxed open more often/all the time. but also the intent/urge to wake up has lessened, and in the moment there is enjoyment of what is happening while reading. it is only in thinking about the situation or in retrospect that some thoughts say 'this doesn't seem to be healthy' or 'this is escapism'.

[bluzulu]

So those thoughts are taking attention away from what you the body is actually doing?
And does it still seem like a problem that those thoughts are happening?

[avare]

gosh i kept checking this tab yesterday and today but because i didnt click refresh i missed your quick reply :(

So those thoughts are taking attention away from what you the body is actually doing?
And does it still seem like a problem that those thoughts are happening?

yes the thoughts take attention away; rather than say that the thoughts happening are a problem, it seems more accurate to say that the thoughts seem true or valid. so then after attention is taken by the thoughts, there is a judging of this happening, and the current actions that the body are taking seem to be a problem.

after i wrote the above, i paused to look more and re-read my prior post, and yes it still seems like a problem that these thoughts are happening. that seems to be the fundamental judgment going on. the thought-judgements happen, but exactly like you asked, THAT is then taken as a problem.

[bluzulu]

so what do you want to happen when those thoughts occur?

[avare]

so what do you want to happen when those thoughts occur?

this is obviously an expectation and belief about how things should be, but 'nothing'. sort of no reaction or no importance given to the thought. like 'oh that thought came up, but it is just a thought, nothing more' reaction.