Help!

[graceabounds]

Beautifully seen. Let’s slow this down and recap.
1 You saw directly: thoughts just happen. No controller, no chooser.
2 When you look, blankness appears: empty, nothing missing.
3 thought comes back, slaps on labels, and claims the territory again.
4 A sick feeling in the stomach shows up when thought insists “this shouldn’t be happening.” But it is. The body exposes the lie.

So the “problem” isn’t that thoughts return. That’s natural. The illusion is the idea that their return means you’ve lost something.

Look carefully:
In the blankness, there’s nothing missing
In the thought-storm, there’s also nothing missing, except another thought says otherwise
And the gnawing in the stomach is just sensation, happening.

You don’t need to “stop labelling.” Catching the auto-labeling mechanism and looking at what is actually present is the point here. (Similarly, continue to notice the difference between a thought arising which is direct experience, and the content of the thought which is fiction)

For one ordinary thing (like washing hands or making coffee) watch closely today. See if the experience ever actually divides into “me doing it” and “the thing being done.” Or is that split only in thought??

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.
This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?
For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

-Becca

[Porky]

For one ordinary thing (like washing hands or making coffee) watch closely today. See if the experience ever actually divides into “me doing it” and “the thing being done.” Or is that split only in thought??

When I'm washing my hands or making coffee, I noticed later that I was lost in thought! About what?? Nothing! I find it strange that these thoughts just pop up and take over. Sometimes I see people giving me these messages that I've never seen before.
And I'll stop and say." Who are you?" And always the message or thought makes no sense. Because I forget to watch closely, the thing gets done and I'm not thinking if it's me doing it because I'm lost in thought! Then I say after, "Oh yeah, I'm supposed to pay attention and be in the moment.

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and if so, which one?
I'm not sure about truer, but without the "I" it seemed impersonal, like there is nobody there. Just is! All senses are activated
but WHO is experiencing these senses? Nobody that I can find!
2. What is here without labels?
Just the senses. seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, sensation
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Labels do not affect the experience; they just describe it! for example, If I see a chair, the label is chair, but seeing is what is happening.
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
No. Nothing. What I do notice is that when I don't label anything, thoughts still come and go. And a lot of times, I become aware of the thought, and I say, that's a thought, WHY? Stay in the moment, keep looking! That works for a while and then I get lost. At some point, Porky comes back to the present and realizes he's been gone for a while. Because time is moving so fast these days, it can be hours before I wake up again!

P.S. Just got back from the Doctor for my hip pain. He told me after looking at the x-rays that my hips were in excellent shape. Was actually surprised for a 72-year-old man how good they looked. yet my mind gives me pain to protect the ego and its illusionary powers. I am depressed. Thinking I was past this phase of my life and could move on. These physical problems have plagued me for years. Every time I get close to the truth my mind creates something physical to take me out of the awareness. Very frustrating! Suggestions?
Thanks, Porky

[graceabounds]

Hi Porky,

So washing hands, making coffee, these things just happen. LATER, thought comes and claims, “I wasn’t paying attention,” or “I should’ve been more present.” That story itself is the only thing suggesting a problem.
Without labels, what’s here? Seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, sensation. That’s all. No “who.” No experiencer found! Great!

Labels don’t change experience, they only describe afterward. (Or make wild predictions that are also not what is here now.)

Here’s another quick exercise:

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice...

Every time I get close to the truth my mind creates something physical to take me out of the awareness.

Look closely. Hip pain appears. Or depression appears. Is there a “mind” creating them? Or are they just more sensations and thoughts, no different than “coffee” or “chair”?

Pain comes, then the story: “This is taking me away from awareness.”
But what is that except another thought???

This is exactly how it works, always!

Now feel into the hip area. Drop the label “pain.” Just feel raw sensation: pressure, tightness, heat, throbbing. Instead of fighting it, lean in. Drop the “why,” drop the “problem.” Let sensation be raw. Nothing to fix. Find out how far it extends, and where the sensation is an isn’t.

Then notice: does the sensation itself say “I am a problem” or “I am blocking awareness”? Or is that only the commentary?

Can you find a one who is being blocked?

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice...

The first time I did this exercise, self was 2 thoughts, MY, My and My.
Other was 5, mostly about the future.
Second time I tried the exercise, 3 thoughts were about "I" mostly, and the discomfort in this body.
Other was 2 times as the question came up about what this exercise was about, and the conversation I had we a person this morning. She did the talking and I just listened. The past.

Look closely. Hip pain appears. Or depression appears. Is there a “mind” creating them? Or are they just more sensations and thoughts, no different than “coffee” or “chair”?

I'm not sure about this one! Hip pain and depression seem like the "mind" creates it. Although when I talk to the depression because it radiates from my stomach, and ask it, Can I help you?
The answer comes back; there is only love and fear and this is fear. When I send it love and light, it stops for a while and then will return for no apparent reason. Coffee/chair feel different, as they don't affect or attack my body and mind.
They are tangible and I can touch a chair, can't touch a thought but I can feel both as a sensation.

Pain comes, then the story: “This is taking me away from awareness.”
But what is that except another thought???
You are right! It's just a thought that gets manifested in my body.

Now feel into the hip area. Drop the label “pain.” Just feel raw sensation: pressure, tightness, heat, throbbing. Instead of fighting it, lean in. Drop the “why,” drop the “problem.” Let sensation be raw. Nothing to fix. Find out how far it extends, and where the sensation is an isn’t.

When I explore and lean into the pain, it will move or change from a throb to a burning sensation. Not trying to fight it, just doing my best to look at it and understand how this all works to evolve my being. This has been going on for so many years that I realize it's not necessarily a problem but a challenge. Emotions step in as I wish? it was a simpler fix and move on.

Then notice: does the sensation itself say “I am a problem” or “I am blocking awareness”? Or is that only the commentary?
That is the commentary as a sensation cannot talk.

Can you find a one who is being blocked?
It feels like I'm being blocked from the truth of No self by the ego, as it tries to protect its power over me. And the way it accomplishes this is by having me create events that take me out of any type of searching because I'm doing my best to save my life and either intense pain or illness sidelines my brain, mind and body. It gets very intense at times!
Thanks, Porky

[graceabounds]

Nice looking, Porky.

Although when I talk to the depression because it radiates from my stomach, and ask it, Can I help you?
The answer comes back; there is only love and fear and this is fear.

This sensation in the stomach, ask what is it afraid of?
Or what is it protecting?
(If you sit with it for a while and sit in these questions an answer may not come in words, so be attentive to any images, pictures, insights etc)

When I explore and lean into the pain, it will move or change from a throb to a burning sensation. Not trying to fight it, just doing my best to look at it and understand how this all works to evolve my being.

Great noticing! That’s not “ego protecting itself.” That’s just sensation alive, changing moment to moment.

Now without the agenda of needing to evolve, or meet any challenge, can you sit with it and follow as it moves?
Can you be with a body where this that simply IS is present?

It feels like I'm being blocked from the truth of No self by the ego, as it tries to protect its power over me

Ah. There’s nothing blocking you. The “block” is only a thought-story about a block. numbness, illness, fear, all are just THIS.

when you look directly at the raw sensation without the commentary, can you find a “you” in it, or is it just sensation happening?

Here’s an exercise for today:

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Keep going!
-Becca

[Porky]

Hi Becca,

This sensation in the stomach, ask what is it afraid of?
Or what is it protecting?
(If you sit with it for a while and sit in these questions an answer may not come in words, so be attentive to any images, pictures, insights etc)

That sensation in the stomach, just started on Saturday. I couldn't sleep and I became completely lost in the past and became absolutely unconscious! I didn't realize it at first and then when I kind of returned to my semi-conscious state, depression and fearful sensations began in the stomach and have been there ever since. When I talk to the fear, it says, I'm here to remind you about going unconscious again and don't let it happen! When I started doing this questioning, at first thoughts of death without awareness came up. Then my mind went blank. The sensation is still there but not as intense. When I ask it again what you are protecting only 1 word comes up! EGO

Now without the agenda of needing to evolve, or meet any challenge, can you sit with it and follow as it moves?
Can you be with a body where this that simply IS is present?

What comes up is surrendering to what is. I can sit with it for a short period of time. Then my mind goes fuzzy. Then I shake it off and start again. Seeing and hearing without labels is the most prevalent senses and the easiest for me to stay with.

when you look directly at the raw sensation without the commentary, can you find a “you” in it, or is it just sensation happening?
There are times when just sensation is happening and I'm not aware of a "you". Especially with seeing and hearing.


Here’s an exercise for today:

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Following instructions to raise one hand. My direct experience sees the hand raising. No thought.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
My mind is following the instructions and raising the hand. It seems like it is a thought. Porky, raise your right hand.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
It appears that the controller is me following instructions, it's still a thought.

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
The thought to raise my hand

How is the decision made?
I'm not sure. If my mind is just following instructions that is the decision.
If I don't tell my hand to raise it just sits there with the other hand and there is no movement.
Again, thoughts controlling movement or no movement.

[graceabounds]

My direct experience sees the hand raising. No thought.

Yes, the movement happens before any story of control.

It appears that the controller is me following instructions, it's still a thought.

Exactly. notice how the “controller” only shows up afterward as a thought-commentary.

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

The thought to raise my hand

But can you see that the thought itself didn’t make the hand move, it only described what was already unfolding?

Look closely:
A thought “raise hand” appears.
Then, hand raises.
But did you see any thing between the two?? some separate “chooser” pushing the hand? Or was it just: thought, movement, done?

This is crucial: the whole sense of “me choosing” is nothing more than a thought appearing after or alongside movement. The decision point can never be located because there isn’t one.

Same with the stomach fear: “ego is protecting,” “this is about death,” “I must not go unconscious” etc, all just commentary after a raw sensation.

So taking a closer look, is it that these voices (thoughts) are controlling these behaviors in any way? Try this out.
Get two foods you like, one that is a 'bad' food, like a piece of chocolate and the other a 'good food,' like a piece of apple. Thoughts might come up while looking at them saying stuff about eating one or the other. Eventually one of them will get eaten first.
Look carefully for any evidence in direct experience to see if those thoughts controlled the behavior; rather than just guessing and commentating what might happen.

Circling back and trying the hand raising exercise again, slow it way down. See if you can catch the exact instant where a decision is made. Watch carefully, does the decision appear anywhere but as a thought afterward, claiming, “I did that”?

Can you actually find a separate controller making the hand rise, or is it just thought + movement appearing?

PS - the stomach already knows that ‘I’ is a lie. Also it is normal for sleep to be affected in this process, after all we are questioning assumptions that have been taken as ‘reality’ for a long time, in essence we are turning your world upside down.

[Porky]

But can you see that the thought itself didn’t make the hand move, it only described what was already unfolding?
If it wasn't the thought that made the hand move, then what was it? How could it be unfolding without the thought or a controller?

Look closely:
A thought “raise hand” appears.
Then, hand raises.
But did you see anything between the two?? some separate “chooser” pushing the hand? Or was it just: thought, movement, done?
Yes, thought, movement, done! Nothing in between. No controller until after the thought is what made the hand move.

So, taking a closer look, is it that these voices (thoughts) are controlling these behaviors in any way?

Thought seems to create the sensation. Somehow underlying emotions seem to arise. If there is no decision point, then how do things just happen? I seem to be confused, as it seems as if thought just happens and then movement occurs or sensations without a controller as thoughts jump into the head without prompting or reason.


Get two foods you like, one that is a 'bad' food, like a piece of chocolate and the other a 'good food,' like a piece of apple. Thoughts might come up while looking at them saying stuff about eating one or the other. Eventually one of them will get eaten first.
Look carefully for any evidence in direct experience to see if those thoughts controlled the behavior; rather than just guessing and commentating what might happen.

Okay, I took out potato chip and smelled into the bag. The sensation of smell told me no! I don't want to eat that.
I also took out an apple. It looked (seeing) very tasty, not thinking about healthy or anything else, just pure sensation.
So just looking at both, without thinking smells, and vision were apparent without thought!

Circling back and trying the hand raising exercise again, slow it way down. See if you can catch the exact instant where a decision is made. Watch carefully, does the decision appear anywhere but as a thought afterward, claiming, “I did that”?
Now when I raise my hand slowly there is no thought at all, just raising happening. After a moment my mind went numb attempting to hear a thought, but nothing happened, no thought.

Can you actually find a separate controller making the hand rise, or is it just thought + movement appearing?
Not even a thought. Raising my hand but no thought, just watching as the hand rises. What happened to the thought?

PS - the stomach already knows that ‘I’ is a lie. Also it is normal for sleep to be affected in this process, after all we are questioning assumptions that have been taken as ‘reality’ for a long time, in essence we are turning your world upside down.
Yes, my world is upside down in every way. After 3 days of not sleeping, I took a sleeping pill last night as my daytime experience has been of just trying to stay awake and every small task is difficult as I'm exhausted. Nothing has changed.
Head is confused, as world situations also play a part in my emotions as well as working on this crazy illusion!

[graceabounds]

Very nice exploration here.

If it wasn't the thought that made the hand move, then what was it?

Just as the heart beats, just as a bird flies past the window…. It doesn’t need a “what” behind it. That “what” question is the mind scrambling to re-establish a controller. But when you look… nothing.

When thought appeared: movement still happened.
When thought didn’t appear: movement still happened.

So what’s left? Just this: things happen. The sense of control is an afterthought.

When the hand rises with no thought at all, was a “me” required at all? Or was it simply movement happening?

And if movement can happen without you… what does that say about the whole sense of “me in control”?

———

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes. Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND:
1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

[Porky]

When the hand rises with no thought at all, was a “me” required at all? Or was it simply movement happening?

It was just movement happening with no Me at all.

And if movement can happen without you… what does that say about the whole sense of “me in control”?

It says, me is not in control. I can see that with this example.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes. Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND:

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
Only one. The sensation of cool as the desk is glass.

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
No feeler at all just sensation of cool, there doesn't seem to even be a hand!

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'? I've done this about 3 times, and every time is the same. It's just a sensation

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?
With my eyes closed the sensation of cool not even a physical hand is what I experience.

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

This is the first time I can say the experience of no feeler was apparent. It was as if there was only a sensation with no feeler to be found. Which means to me that the concept/idea/thought of a me in control has definitely come into question.
Thanks, Porky

[graceabounds]

:)

Now notice that nothing was “removed.” Nothing mystical added. Just the simple fact that when you really look, there’s no feeler, only feeling. No me, only sensation.

The “self” can’t be found because it was never there. It was always only a thought glued onto sensation: “my hand,” “I feel.” Without the thought, only coolness.

If no feeler can be found in direct experience, then all day (sitting, walking, eating, pain in the hip, fear in the stomach, what have you) what’s actually here? Just sensation + thought stories.

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.
Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?
1. Can you find anywhere where 'Porky' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?
2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?
3. Can anything be found for which 'Porky' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Right now, apart from thought’s commentary, can you find a separate entity ANYWHERE in experience?

[Porky]

If no feeler can be found in direct experience, then all day (sitting, walking, eating, pain in the hip, fear in the stomach, what have you) what’s actually here? Just sensation + thought stories.

Okay, so if there is just sensation plus thoughts, where does any decisions made come from? Is it just random? Which would mean all existence is pre-destined, no choice but to go with the flow or not! If I decide to go to the beach and while sitting there a centipede crawls out of the rocks and bites me, what is that? I didn't choose to get bitten. Destiny? or does our decision-making process come from our childhood programming?

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc.? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

The water cannot choose its direction. The water is affected by weather conditions and erosion. And it is an ever-changing pattern. It doesn't seem to be a separate entity. Are we humans the same? Water flowing down rocks is quite different then a human with thoughts. Does a river think? No, it just exists.
Yes, conceptually I can see your point. And more and more I get experiences that tell me, I don't know anything about what's real or imaginary. How could I possibly know anything! At times, I get confused because MY ego steps in and there I am in the realm of thought or acting out of defense without thinking, stuff just happens. Then I realize; Hmmmm I'm lost again.

1. Can you find anywhere where 'Porky' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

This question has eluded me for a very long time. It seems that Porky does choose at times. Ex. where to live, what to eat.
Yet there are times where things just happen and then there is intervention on my part.
Some of it seems like my childhood programming has kicked in and caused me to create circumstances or make decisions that otherwise wouldn't happen unless it is so contrived to teach me a lesson of what I'm not sure!


2. Now please consider a regular decision made e.g.; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

It seems like Porky is the someone that decides what to eat or wear. Then we do an exercise where the me disappears. I would have to say that more experiences have been showing the most likely outcome is that there is no entity intervening in the flow of life. For me to realize this probable truth, I'd have to see more experiences to lead me to that conclusion.

3. Can anything be found for which 'Porky' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?
I can describe my mind set with one word "Dichotomy". I am divided, some parts of me say, I am responsible for all my experiences, past, present and future, and other parts say, this illusion is so deep set, and nothing is real, so how can a non-entity be responsible?

Right now, apart from thought’s commentary, can you find a separate entity ANYWHERE in experience?
Without the commentary. Sometimes
With the commentary:

When I ask myself, am I a separate entity? The answer comes up NO! Yet I haven't wakened up enough to see it all the time. There have been brief moments where I can see, then the ego quickly creates circumstances to bring me back.
When I look for a separate entity, my mind gets foggy, and my experience becomes unreliable.
I don't understand or trust anything I see! Extremely frustrated!

[graceabounds]

Hello Porky,

Frustration is perfect… it’s the ego-story demanding a solid answer where none can be found.

And more and more I get experiences that tell me, I don't know anything about what's real or imaginary. How could I possibly know anything! At times, I get confused because MY ego steps in and there I am in the realm of thought or acting out of defense without thinking, stuff just happens. Then I realize; Hmmmm I'm lost again.

Yes exactly! Who could know??
Next: Who ‘realizes’ that there is a loss? Is it precisely what has been rendered unnecessary in the flow of life? And it inserts itself afterwards with a story of having been missing?

Okay, so if there is just sensation plus thoughts, where does any decisions made come from? Is it just random?

We are going to continue to slow everything down and look, moment by moment. The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:
1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference appears for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves?
If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

I would have to say that more experiences have been showing the most likely outcome is that there is no entity intervening in the flow of life. For me to realize this probable truth, I'd have to see more experiences to lead me to that conclusion.

Ok, so double exercises today. :)
Feel free to break into two responses if that is easier.

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (possibly legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

When I look for a separate entity, my mind gets foggy, and my experience becomes unreliable.
I don't understand or trust anything I see!

The self is never found. Only fog, confusion, numbness, thought loops. And then thought says “this must mean I’m failing.” But isn’t that itself just another thought, untrustworthy like the rest?

So instead of fighting the fog, sit right in it. Feel it. Taste it. Let it be raw. Ask:
Is there anything here other than fog + thought commentary?
Is there a “me” hidden in the fog, or just fog happening?

You don’t need to trust or understand. In fact, this fogginess shows the structure cracking. The ego-mind can’t pin down anything solid, because there is nothing solid to pin down!

Much love,
becca

ps- so i don’t go absolutely crazy trying to figure out where a question ends and an answer begins, here is a quick tutorial on using the quote function on this forum:
https://youtu.be/QCbZYSvnTpc?si=upBzMXIXvT-PklCl

[Porky]

Yes exactly! Who could know??
Next: Who ‘realizes’ that there is a loss? Is it precisely what has been rendered unnecessary in the flow of life? And it inserts itself afterwards with a story of having been missing?

Sorry, I don't understand these questions.

We are going to continue to slow everything down and look, moment by moment. The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:
1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference appears for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves?
If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

The qualities just appeared in my mind. They appeared by themselves.
I seemed to have chosen the preference. Looking at one was red, the other clear water and I preferred the water.
They may have popped up themselves, but it seemed like I knew what I wanted right away when I first saw the choices.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

I'm not quite clear, but it seems like the experience was just there and the decision had been made ahead of time.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

It felt like I chose the water. When I look to see what that function is, I don't have an answer. There would not be a
purpose here. No function.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

A feeling cannot choose. It is a sensation. It is not in the nature of a feeling to choose.

I would prefer to make this into 2 responses, as I'm not well today and having trouble with concentration and pain. Haven't slept in days. I don't think it's coming from our communications. I had some serious surgery 5 months ago and my Testosterone therapy was discontinued. It feels like my T Levels are very low and I just started treatment again today. Hopefully it helps. Thank you for your understanding and guidance, I'm definitely seeing a difference.

P.S. Did I get the quotes function correct? Hope so as I don't want to see you go crazy!
Thanks, Porky

[Porky]

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

No there is no connection. It feels as if the mirror image is separate from my sensations of the body. And no thoughts until the question arises: Are you real? Talking to the mirror. No is the answer.

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No connection, there is no sensation from the hand in the mirror.

4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations ((labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

Not even a thought seems to appear to say "move your hand"
It's as if it has a mind of its own. There were no sensations in the hand.

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colors and shapes?

The image in the mirror does not feel like me! It's as if there is a stranger looking back at me!
It doesn't suggest in any way that it is my body.
The image cannot suggest anything, as it is just a mirror image, and that is all. I do see a face with a body and colors but that doesn't feel or relate to me at all.

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (possibly legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

No there is no knowledge of legs. If I thought about it instead of looking at it, I would somehow come to a conclusion that the image was incomplete, and I would then imagine legs where they're not in the mirror.

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

No body to be found, just sensations, mostly seeing.

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

As I walk, noticing my feet hitting the ground, yet it's a sensation of who or what is walking?
As walking continues, I began to feel the weight of something but difficult to pin down what that weight is.
Very little thinking going on as my being is attempting to see if I can find a body.
Its most likely some conceptual and some experience mixed in as I seem to vacillate back and forth about a body being found or thoughts about a body. It feels like the truth and some experiences are telling me so, yet I still have some sense of a body without thinking about it.

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Yes, at first it just appeared like there were only images, then I began labelling them wall, books, table, etc.

The self is never found. Only fog, confusion, numbness, thought loops. And then thought says “this must mean I’m failing.” But isn’t that itself just another thought, untrustworthy like the rest?

The fog is gone and has been replaced by numbness, and any thought comes from the ego and not trustworthy.

So instead of fighting the fog, sit right in it. Feel it. Taste it. Let it be raw. Ask:
Is there anything here other than fog + thought commentary?
Is there a “me” hidden in the fog, or just fog happening?

Sitting in the fog/numbness, I ask the question, "Is there anything else?
No answer, just blankness. No darkness, just no answer.
It appears there is just fog/numbness happening. I don't find a "me" there just emptiness. It takes a lot to get to this point, and it vanishes quickly to be left with some identity and some not!

P.S. I did this exercise 3 times with mostly the same responses each time.

Thanks,
Porky