Becoming No One

[NoPerson]

It sounds like maybe you're out of touch with your body. Could that be?

Not sure. Could be. I thought I had become better at this lately. I will pay attention to it, maybe I'll lie to someone intentionally just to see how that feels. :)

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

I am not sure if you answered this question already, or if those were only hints? My answer is, what the contents of thoughts describe cannot be known for sure.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There are only experiences (color/shape, taste, smell, sensation, thoughts). Those are known for sure and can be labelled with "apple". However, "apple" or "there is an apple lying on the table" are thoughts, and interpretations of the experiences. Thoughts are just thoughts (and not the actual thing), and interpretation can be wrong. So I tend to say, it cannot be known for sure that an "apple" is here. But the same goes for the thought: "the apple is not here" which also cannot be the conclusion. So, it seems like it cannot be determined.

However, at the same time, I have the belief that the apple is actually here.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

In actual experience we can only find smell, taste, color, sensations, and the fact that thoughts arise. So apple is a label we have learned to give to a range of experiences. It's a concept, but not the actual experience itself. So, no, "apple" cannot be found in actual experience.

However, is an apple actually known?

If only experiences are known, then "apple" cannot be known.

[Anastacia42]

If only experiences are known, then "apple" cannot be known.

Correct.

Do you see how this applies to "self?

How does it FEEL to see this? "

Much love

[NoPerson]

Do you see how this applies to "self"?

I focused on this as intensely as I could. First, I started by looking at a lemon. Here is my experience.

It is obvious that there are only direct experiences. Seeing colors, feeling feet on the floor, hearing cars outside, etc. What else is here? Nothing. Only more direct experiences. I ask myself, "does the lemon exist?". A thought comes saying "Yes, of course". But that is just a thought, that's all, another experience. And then it goes in circles. Somehow, there is still a belief that the lemon actually exists.

When I then apply this to "self" it's the same.

Then I feel a little bit disappointed and frustrated. Then I ask, "who feels that?". Answer "I". Oops, simply a thought. So what is here other than experiences? ... And going in circles again. I still believe, I exist. (I am aware I am writing in first person)

How does it FEEL to see this?

I cannot say, because I am not seeing it.

[Anastacia42]

focused on this as intensely as I could.

First, you must be relaxed to see. Do not strain. If you find yourself straining, take a break.

Yes, "I" is only a belief, a thought. It is usually accompanied by the tense tight feeling we get when we lie, that you had trouble finding. That's why finding & testing that is important.

Please watch all of Pernille's videos on Doubt. I believe there are 3 of them.

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp

You are only believing a lifelong lie.

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

social anxiety ever since my adolescence years

For anxiety:

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.


and these. Do them as many times as needed.

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi


Fear and expectations are the only things that can keep you from clearly seeing there is no separate "self."

Loving,

[NoPerson]

Thank you for all this input and your dedication <3

I am going to need some time to process.

[Anastacia42]

You are welcome.

Take it lightly and enjoy the process!

Loving,

[NoPerson]

I have a question.

While reading "Gateless Gatecrashers" I got a little bit confused. Ilona says:

"I" is fiction. The chair, the table, the monitor, the body, the tree, that cat, the cabin and the sun are real. Even the mind is real, as a mind. But Tom is fiction.

Earlier, we established that an "apple" or any other object like "chair" cannot be known. What is the difference between something being real and something being known? I thought "real" means that we know something exists or is here. There seems to be a slight contradiction. Or does Ilona mean experiences that are labeled "chair" are real?

Or is it that "chair" as the idea or concept of a chair cannot be known, while the object in front of me that is labeled with "chair" is real. Hm, I guess that's difference, right?

[Anastacia42]

Or is it that "chair" as the idea or concept of a chair cannot be known, while the object in front of me that is labeled with "chair" is real. Hm, I guess that's difference, right?

You've got it.

You can See & Feel a chair, but you will never see or feel an "I." It is complete fiction.

Loving,

[NoPerson]

Fear and expectations are the only things that can keep you from clearly seeing there is no separate "self."

Regarding expectations. That could be a thing. I certainly have this thought that seeing the illusion of the self is a big thing and comes with fireworks. The experience of the glimpse I had may have supported this expectation. However, I am aware that the change might be very subtle. (I also expected it would be easy access again, I'd just have to look closely again. That has not been the case.)

I also sometimes fantasize about me telling others (e.g. my partner) about how I was able to see through the self, and then they go "Wow, and you were really able to do this, and you can see that there is no self?", and then I go "Hell, yeah that's right, baby" and put my sunglasses on. Completely delusional. Also, I dream of facing everyone that has ever hurt me in the past and showing them how untouchable I have become. Or my other Buddhist friend (not the one I mentioned in the first post), who has been going on retreats for decades, I would go like "Look what I have accomplished!". It comes up, and I know it's bullshit and I feel bad about it. Just the ego. Simply thoughts. I don't know if there are any significant underlying beliefs, I should take a closer look at. Maybe. Or just let them be. I have always been someone looking for external validation. However, I want to go through with this 100%, even if no one would ever know.

Please watch all of Pernille's videos on Doubt. I believe there are 3 of them.

I have watched all the videos on doubt. The third one was the interview with Todd Lent, where I could relate to a lot of things. Really good. My anxiety is not as severe as Todd described his. Also, he describes how he was completely unable to feel into his body/chest, which seems not like that for me. However, the whole doubt thing, trying to know as much about things as possible, skepticism, and critical thinking I can relate to a lot.

The main takeaway for me is that being unable to not find the "self" over and over again, is not enough to realize that it does not exist. It needs to be felt deeply, not understood rationally. And I see now how this is tight to body sensations.

I am going to check out Todd's "See hear feel" videos.

Do you think it would make sense to do some breathwork, too, I was recommended a good teacher recently?

[Anastacia42]

Yes.

Still processing?

Having seeing no self hit you like a ton of bricks is a belief.

Self importance in front of others is a belief & can you see how contradictory that would be?

Yes. I guided Todd for a long time, then passed him to another guide & he eventually saw. That thread is 30 pages long.

Another thing is that you don't do it. Realization shows up when it does and is very unpredictable. It is most likely to happen when you're not thinking about it. Thinking totally gets in your way.

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes us accident prone."

Sunryu Suzuki

I'm not sure whether breathwork would help you or not. I did a lot of breath work for many years and had a lot of experiences I did not identify as seeing no self, just a euphoric feeling. I will leave that up to you.

Remember to use the anxiety exercise as needed.

Here is one I'd like you to look at frequently.

ButtChair

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.

I did only this and nothing else for 3 months and then saw. It crept up on me while I was sitting at a stoplight. Seeing often happens when we are simply relaxed and looking. I should say, it ONLY happens when we are relaxed and LOOKING. All of this thinking is useless. Truly.

[NoPerson]

Still processing?

Still need to watch the videos on fear.

Having seeing no self hit you like a ton of bricks is a belief.

Yes. I am aware of that.

Self importance in front of others is a belief & can you see how contradictory that would be?

Absolutely.

Another thing is that you don't do it. Realization shows up when it does and is very unpredictable. It is most likely to happen when you're not thinking about it. Thinking totally gets in your way.

I am doing self-inquiry frequently, basically whenever I think of it. While reading the book, I feel into everything that comes up there. Then thoughts arise and I often get lost in them accidentally. I am aware that realization is about feeling/seeing and not about intellectual understanding.

Will not get into breathwork right now. But I will look into the "see hear fee" practice, and start doing the butt-chair exercise and write what is true, once I find some time, probably tomorrow.

[Anastacia42]

Sounds good.

[NoPerson]

social anxiety ever since my adolescence years

For anxiety:

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.


and these. Do them as many times as needed.

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi


Fear and expectations are the only things that can keep you from clearly seeing there is no separate "self."

Loving,

I haven't had any anxiety recently, but I still did the exercise. Taste and smell are challenging to focus on for two minutes, especially taste is more or less neutral and does not change much. I also just realized that the fact that I have anxiety is simply a thought/belief...

Haven't found the time to do the direct looking for fear meditation yet. I might come back to it when I feel it is an issue again.

The second video was very impressive. I was touched by the intimacy, authenticity, and especially the compassion. There is no need to fear fear, nor any other emotion or feeling.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, keep me posted.

Stay relaxed!

Loving,