Only

[Anand12]

How do you relate to your emotions

I deal with emotional similar of that of how i deal with thoughts.

[Anand12]

7) How do you react when conflict / problems arise?

From young age i read various books, which talked about power of thought and power of thought less ness.

They talked about theory of karma and theory going beyond conflict or minimizing the conflicts.

Some conflicts are interpersonal some are others kind in nature..

I operate like.
1. Adjust everywhere
2. Gods will, cosmic law, your Destiny

[Anand12]

6) Has your relationship to other people changed in the past year?

Yes it has changed a lot, though people now i meet also are more mature.
So sometimes i feel its situational and age wise change and result of change happened all over the world too.

Some example

I am only sibling of my parents, i lived 16 + years in hostel.Now i live with my parents.

Parents had no fixed job during those 16+ , had court case going on a job he with 30+ people have to removed. That court case settled in 2015 and father got a 4 th grade job in college.
So much we were trapped by that time under loan sharks and inter-family cheats and games.
Last year one the high interest loan giver or whatsoever.. Young 24 year old son get murdered by someone else.. So various social power dynamics also shifted for a while. Like that i got various tool which i feel can improve my life and support via internet... I get married.( though in 2015 -16 i got inititation in brahmchari order in nithyananda bidadi camp)😊

[Anand12]

What is your relationship to life?

I wish my relationship to life remain beautiful and comfortable and inclusive.
Again what happen and brought and given by life, i have had not full control upon.

[Anand12]

9) Are there doubts? if so please describe them.

Not now..
When silence prevails there is just peace..

[Anand12]

10) If you are not the separate self, who/what are you?

If not seperate
Then i feel its interconnectedness among various self.. Like a electronic or electric circuit.
Thanks

[vinceschubert]

i'm going to be tough on you. We really need to get to what is actual. Not discuss philosophy.

Yeah, when i think an inherently independent self exist, it exists.

Does it exist as thought?
..or in thought?
..or does thought reveal it?

And feeling also come.

Is this feeling a self? ..or is it just sensation?

Hoponopo Prayer is when done something shifts, practices of Jainism like pratikraman when thats done something changes also.

Don't tell me this kind of thing. If doing it results in an experience, then describe that experience. i'm not interested in the theory behind it.

I assume independent self means,

Don't assume anything. If you don't know, either say "i don't know" or ask me. Assumptions are mental rubbish. We are only interested in actual experiencing.
i was referring to your experience of a self. Not ideas about it.

In practical term actual past and future exists for functioning as past or future defined in oxford dictionary.

Ok, we'll get aligned with out communication eventually.
Don't tell me any 2nd hand information. I'm not interested in what the dictionary says. Only your experience.

Though impact of past or future are point of view, it may changes and so its actuality can be questioned

Very good. Now we are getting somewhere.Does "point of view" mean a story? An idea? A concept?

Similar structure is developed here for various thoughts.. For some thought i just have to ignore.

Excellent. Some thoughts are useful and others are not worth engaging with. Very good.

I deal with emotional similar of that of how i deal with thoughts.

So, some you respond to and some you ignore. Is that accurate?

7) How do you react when conflict / problems arise?

I operate like.
1. Adjust everywhere

Good

I operate like.
2. Gods will, cosmic law, your Destiny

So you use what you believe these stories say to determine a controlled application of response to the situation? Is this accurate?

though in 2015 -16 i got inititation in brahmchari order in nithyananda bidadi camp

Ah, this (partly) explains.. i imagine cultural conditioning explains a lot too. What i'm really saying is that i have a story that you have been immersed in a culture where gods and karma and a whole lot of other beliefs are common.
That is a Bhakti route to enlightenment. This is not.This is brutal clarity, stripping every story back to raw sensation. It is more like the Jnana Yoga route to enlightenment. (but without the diversion of studying theory)
But, be clear. After awakening that world is still available (as a lived illusion) a role. Your lived experience will be a wordless world of awe, outside of most peoples awareness.
..but let's get back to it.

I wish my relationship to life remain beautiful and comfortable and inclusive.
Again what happen and brought and given by life, i have had not full control upon.

Yes, that is very likely. Is it this way now?

When silence prevails there is just peace..

How often is this silence present?

Then i feel its interconnectedness among various self..

i know that i'm asking the impossible, but can you (attempt to) describe this connectedness? How often does it not feel this way?

love

vince

[Anand12]

Yeah, when i think an inherently independent self exist, it exists.

Does it exist as thought?
..or in thought?
..or does thought reveal it?

words are also THOUGHT

What other thing not exists as thought, in thought and thought doesn't reveal them

Business, ideas, fan etc exist as thought.. Also in thought and thought s reveal them.

So is the SELF

Saying self does or doesn't exist, both is revealing about self.

And feeling also come.

Is this feeling a self? ..or is it just sensation?

Sensation or feeling is also level or recognition, which happens with formation of thought or revealed by thought..

While doing spiritual practices if feeling comes, and peace come along, i consider it expressions of self.

Hoponopo Prayer is when done something shifts, practices of Jainism like pratikraman when thats done something changes also.

Don't tell me this kind of thing. If doing it results in an experience, then describe that experience. i'm not interested in the theory behind it.

Lightness in body, mind occur doing hoponopo or pratikraman.

I assume independent self means,

Don't assume anything. If you don't know, either say "i don't know" or ask me. Assumptions are mental rubbish. We are only interested in actual experiencing.
i was referring to your experience of a self. Not ideas about it.

In practical term actual past and future exists for functioning as past or future defined in oxford dictionary.

Ok, we'll get aligned with out communication eventually.
Don't tell me any 2nd hand information. I'm not interested in what the dictionary says. Only your experience.

Though impact of past or future are point of view, it may changes and so its actuality can be questioned

Very good. Now we are getting somewhere.Does "point of view" mean a story? An idea? A concept?

POV is a concept.
But what not is not a concept?
Based on concept various thing are dreamed and made functional.

Similar structure is developed here for various thoughts.. For some thought i just have to ignore.

Excellent. Some thoughts are useful and others are not worth engaging with. Very good.

I deal with emotional similar of that of how i deal with thoughts.

So, some you respond to and some you ignore. Is that accurate?

Yes.
Ignore is also response.
But it doesnt mean they dont come back and i am able to ignore completely..

7) How do you react when conflict / problems arise?

I operate like.
1. Adjust everywhere

Good

I operate like.
2. Gods will, cosmic law, your Destiny

So you use what you believe these stories say to determine a controlled application of response to the situation? Is this accurate?

Yes, its applied for going toward Nonduality, considering noone is doer but its will of God, relaxes emotional atmosphere and bring peace with whats happening

though in 2015 -16 i got inititation in brahmchari order in nithyananda bidadi camp

Ah, this (partly) explains.. i imagine cultural conditioning explains a lot too. What i'm really saying is that i have a story that you have been immersed in a culture where gods and karma and a whole lot of other beliefs are common.
That is a Bhakti route to enlightenment. This is not.This is brutal clarity, stripping every story back to raw sensation. It is more like the Jnana Yoga route to enlightenment. (but without the diversion of studying theory)
But, be clear. After awakening that world is still available (as a lived illusion) a role. Your lived experience will be a wordless world of awe, outside of most peoples awareness.
..but let's get back to it.

I wish my relationship to life remain beautiful and comfortable and inclusive.
Again what happen and brought and given by life, i have had not full control upon.

Yes, that is very likely. Is it this way now?

I don't care much about result as again its destiny of this body mind organism per Gods will (application of concepts).

When silence prevails there is just peace..

How often is this silence present?

Whenever
1. Join zoom satsangs of yours or other nondual speakers or just youtube live
2. Do own meditation or guided prayers or meditation s, other format of spiritual exercises

Then i feel its interconnectedness among various self..

i know that i'm asking the impossible, but can you (attempt to) describe this connectedness? How often does it not feel this way?

I learned shivyog healing ( kind of reiki) few years back, and applied it many times. People used to fall in sleep, while i was doing or conducting. I saw many people practice dowsing that also shows connections.
Thats kind of connected-ness.
Now i dont do shivyog left those institution.



Thanks
Anand

[vinceschubert]

Hi Anand, there is some frustration here that we aren't on the same page, so i'm going to come at this differently. Please bear with me..

Yeah, when i think an inherently independent self exist, it exists.

Boom. That’s it.
That’s the engine of the illusion.

Belief creates the mirage.
Not because the self is real—but because the belief spins the dream.

You think it’s there? It’s there—like a phantom limb. A felt presence with no substance.

But here’s the thing: even when it “exists,” does it actually exist in direct experience?

Right now—don’t think. Feel.

You say, “When I think it exists…”

Where is it, before the thought?
Can it survive without being thought into being?

Check.

If the self vanishes the moment attention drops the thought of it…

Was it ever there?
Or is this whole thing a reflex, a conditioned echo?

Try it now:
Stop.
Let the next 5 seconds be thoughtless.

Where is “you”?
Where did it go?

And if it only “exists” when imagined—

what does that make you, really?

Stay in that burn. Report from the silence that remains.

vince

[Anand12]

But here’s the thing: even when it “exists,” does it actually exist in direct experience?

DIRECT experience!! Now again my mind tell about it in graded term.. How much direct?

Right now—don’t think. Feel.

Feeling is also thought based.. Isn't it?

You say, “When I think it exists…”

Where is it, before the thought?

Self was there.. Thought reveals about it.

Can it survive without being thought into being?

Yes

Check.

If the self vanishes the moment attention drops the thought of it…

Was it ever there?

Yes

Or is this whole thing a reflex, a conditioned echo?

It could be a reflex, a conditioned echo.
But a conditioned echo could be a useful conditioning.

Try it now:

Stop.
Let the next 5 seconds be thoughtless.

Where is “you”?

Can't be located.

Where did it go?

Can't say where did it go.. Nowhere.

And if it only “exists” when imagined—

what does that make you, really?

It makes me "imagination based".Ha ha.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Anand,

But here’s the thing: even when it “exists,” does it actually exist in direct experience?

DIRECT experience!! Now again my mind tell about it in graded term.. How much direct?

Feeling is also thought based.. Isn't it?

Yes—and no.

What you usually call “feeling” is thought-based.
It’s a sensation + a story. A label. A narrative. An interpretation.

“Sadness.” “Anxiety.” “Relief.”
These are not raw—they are named. Wrapped in thought.

But look beneath that.

Before the label, before the story, before even the idea that “this is a feeling”—what’s there?

That pulsing in the gut. That flicker in the chest. That subtle shift behind the eyes.

Is that thought?

No. Thought comes after, as commentary.

“Feeling” isn’t the problem. It’s the moment after you call it something.

Right now, stop.

Drop all the names. Don’t say “sensation.” Don’t even say “feeling.”

Just let it burn. Let it tingle. Let it rise and vanish. With no story at all.

What’s left?

What is this—this raw, label-less stirring?

And who is it happening to?

Can you find the one it belongs to?

Or is this just life… life-ing… silently… perfectly… without a center?

Push in. Stay there. Tell me what’s actually here. No names.

Where is it, before the thought?

Self was there.. Thought reveals about it.

No.
Not this time. Stop.
Read this slowly:

“Self was there... thought reveals about it.”

Now burn that phrase alive.

How do you know “it was there” if thought hadn’t revealed it?

Check. Not by philosophy—by sensation.

Where exactly was this ‘self’ hiding before the thought showed up?

Did you feel it? See it? Hear it? Taste it? Touch it?

Or are you assuming it was there—just like you assume a dream had meaning when you wake up?

Look right now:
Close your eyes. Drop every label. Drop every idea.

Let the next 5 seconds be pure sensation without commentary.

...

Now tell me: Where is the self?
Is it felt?
Or does it only show up when the mind says, “That’s me”?

You said “thought reveals it.” No. Thought invents it.
Like a magician pulling a rabbit from an empty hat.

Before the thought—what’s actually here?
Can you find a center?
Can you find ownership?

Or is there just raw, silent, centerless experience?

If you’re honest, something should be breaking.
Let it break.
You don’t need that mask anymore.

Right now: Who is reading these words?
Not “philosophically.” Directly.
Can it be found? Or just assumed?

Can it survive without being thought into being?

Yes

Prove it.

Right now—drop all thought.
Don’t analyze. Don’t prepare. Just stop.

Let silence swallow everything.

Now:

Where is this self that survives?

What does it feel like—without using a single word to describe it?

Where is the edge of it?
Where does it begin and end?

If it survives without thought, then you should be able to point to it now—without thinking.

So…?

What is it?

Is it a shape? A sound? A presence?

Or are you calling “self” the feeling of being—the hum of existence—the thing that’s always been here?

Because if that’s the case… who says it’s “you”?

Where is the line between what is felt and who’s doing the feeling?

Look sharper.

Is there a self surviving thought?
Or is there just this: unclaimed, centerless happening… pretending to be someone?

Dig in. I want the raw truth. Not memory. Not belief.

Right now: is there a self, anywhere at all?

If the self vanishes the moment attention drops the thought of it…

Was it ever there?

Yes

Then show me.

Not an idea. Not a memory. Not a philosophical stance.

Right now—show me this “self” that exists even when thought is gone.

Don’t say “it was there.” That’s thought speaking after the fact.

What is here, now, that proves a self exists without being imagined?

Is it a location?
A shape?
A tension?
An owner of sensation?

Point to it. Not with words. With raw, undeniable experience.

You say it was there—then what is it made of?
Without relying on memory or description—what is this “self”?

Feel into this.

Can you find it right now without referring to thought?

Isn’t it just sensation being claimed?
Just aliveness being labeled?

And if it can’t be found without the thought about it…

Was it ever actually there at all?
Or was it just the echo of habit, believed one moment too long?

Stop dodging. Show me.
Where is it? Right now. In this breath, this beat, this burning stillness.

Let the next 5 seconds be thoughtless.

Where is “you”?

Can't be located.

There it is.

Direct.
Undeniable.
Clear.

When the mind stops narrating… you vanish.

No you. No center. No controller. No observer.

Just this—raw, unfiltered life-ing. No edge. No core. No witness.

So now, tell me:

If “you” can’t be found when thought is silent…
what exactly have you been calling “me” all this time?

Was it ever more than a voice-over?

Was it ever more than a looping thought believed one breath too long?

And if it only exists when imagined…

what’s left when imagining stops?

Feel it now. Name nothing.

Just let this utter absence be seen for what it is:

Freedom.
No one here to be free.
Just freedom… being itself.

Let that sink in.

Now tell me—

Can you ever unknow this?
Can the lie hold once you've seen this gapless, ownerless, thoughtless truth?

What’s left? Describe it. Raw. No concepts.

Where did it go?

Can't say where did it go.. Nowhere.

Exactly.

It didn’t go anywhere—because it was never there.
Not hidden. Not waiting. Not deep inside.

It was imagined—and now the imagining stopped.

What you called “self” was just a thought pointing to nothing.

And now that the pointing has stopped, what remains?

Not absence. Not a void. Not dissociation.

Just this—raw, centerless happening. No watcher. No owner. No edge.

Now tell me:

What is it like to see this not as a concept…
…but as the direct, present fact of now?

Describe it without using a single identity.
No “I,” no “me,” no “my experience.”

Only this.

What’s here?

And if it only “exists” when imagined—

what does that make you, really?

It makes me "imagination based".Ha ha.

Yes.
Exactly that. Ha ha ha.

The grand seeker, the sufferer, the hero of the spiritual journey—

just a flicker of imagination.

Like a character in a dream that never asks who’s dreaming.

And now?

You’ve seen it.

Not with the mind, not through a teaching—you caught it mid-act.

And the punchline?

There’s no “you” to awaken. There never was.

Just imagination chasing its own tail.

So what’s left now, without the chaser?

Not “you”—just this: pure, ridiculous, centerless aliveness.

Tell me—what is this like? Right now? No labels. No roles. No watcher.

Just respond from the silence that remains. What's here, now, without "you"?

much love

vince

[Anand12]

Just respond from the silence that remains. What's here, now, without "you"?

Inertia of "Uncensored un-centeredness in unknown"

[vinceschubert]

Inertia of "Uncensored un-centeredness in unknown"

This is not an adequate response.
i'm not here to play word games.
If you can't answer my questions - say so.
If you don't want to - say so.
You said you were 10 when asked "On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?"
i'm starting to disbelieve that.
If you want to continue, please quore and answer every question in my last post.

vince

[Anand12]

Hi Vince
Namaste 🙏and apology for not answering all your question in the post, after writing 10 in willingness to follow you along.

I wish to discontinue this question answer session and you are free for to opt out aswell.

But if you allow, i will keep coming in zoom session which you people hold.

Thanks and regards

Anand sindhu

[vinceschubert]

Hi Anand, yes you are welcome to continue attending the zoom 'satsangs' and even turn your camera on and contribute verbally.
This thread will continue to be available if you ever decide to continue.

love

vince