The Gate

Sure! Let's look directly at that thought:

"I'm not fully convinced they're the same thing."

Try this, not conceptually, but directly:

Watch a thought arise.

Where does that thought appear? What is aware of it?

Is there any gap between the thought and the awareness of it?

Does awareness need to do anything to perceive the thought? Or is it just effortlessly known?

Does awareness wait for a thought to appear, or is the thought simply there, already one with the knowing of it?


A few more things you might explore:

If you don’t refer to any concept of awareness and just notice directly, do you find an actual line separating awareness from what appears?

Does this thought belong to someone outside of awareness, or does it just show up, like any other sensation?

Does it come from a specific place, from some center? Or does it simply arise and fade away?


And most importantly:

Who, exactly, needs this conviction?

Is there a separate entity that needs to “figure it out,” or is that just another thought telling a story?


Would love to hear your responses to each question separately, just to make our "dialogue" clearer! 😊

Sure! Let's look directly at that thought:

"I'm not fully convinced they're the same thing."

Try this, not conceptually, but directly:

Watch a thought arise.

Where does that thought appear? What is aware of it?

arises anywhere, nowhere? the thought itself is aware of nothing?

Is there any gap between the thought and the awareness of it?

by the time I try to look for the gap between the thought and the awareness of it, that thought has passed. but there doesnt seem to be any gap between the two.

Does awareness need to do anything to perceive the thought? Or is it just effortlessly known?

it is effortlessly known. thoughts or sensations just keep popping up. there is nothing being done to perceive it.

Does awareness wait for a thought to appear, or is the thought simply there, already one with the knowing of it?

when in just awareness, there is no waiting. "i am waiting" is a thought. otherwise awareness is and everything is arising in it.

A few more things you might explore:

If you don’t refer to any concept of awareness and just notice directly, do you find an actual line separating awareness from what appears?

When I don't look for awareness, or make awareness into a shiny black background, then there is no separation I can see between awareness from what appears (thoughts, sensations, etc)

Does this thought belong to someone outside of awareness, or does it just show up, like any other sensation?

thoughts just show up, just like any other sensations.

Does it come from a specific place, from some center? Or does it simply arise and fade away?

simply arises and fades away. there is no place it comes from. no center where they all come from.

And most importantly:

Who, exactly, needs this conviction?

Is there a separate entity that needs to “figure it out,” or is that just another thought telling a story?

in the moment, there is no separate entity that needs to figure it out. later there is a thought saying how can both be the same.

Thank you for sharing all these insightful questions!

“in the moment, there is no separate entity that needs to figure it out. later there is a thought saying how can both be the same.”

That questioning thought, where does it come from? Is it anything other than another movement, just like any sensation or perception?

Is there actually something that needs to be resolved, or is the sense that ‘something is unresolved’ just another fleeting thought?

If no separate 'I' is waiting for an answer, who is the doubt appearing for?

Right now, find the one who is waiting for resolution. Where exactly is this ‘I’ that still needs clarity?

Hi May!

“in the moment, there is no separate entity that needs to figure it out. later there is a thought saying how can both be the same.”

That questioning thought, where does it come from? Is it anything other than another movement, just like any sensation or perception?

It is just another thought, empty itself too. Mind then seems to grasp on to it as important, instead can just let it go as another thought.

Is there actually something that needs to be resolved, or is the sense that ‘something is unresolved’ just another fleeting thought?

It is just another fleeting thought that can be let go of. As I experience the stillness more and more, this thought appears less and less..

If no separate 'I' is waiting for an answer, who is the doubt appearing for?

Right now, find the one who is waiting for resolution. Where exactly is this ‘I’ that still needs clarity?

The doubt is just another thought that arises and passes on. There is no one waiting for resolution! There is just the awareness/stillness and thoughts/sensations floating by.

Now I understand your signature as well :)

Hey, KP!

Beautifully seen!

And now that this is unfolding... lets go deeper?

“It is just another thought, empty itself too. Mind then seems to grasp on to it as important, instead can just let it go as another thought.”

Is there such a thing as “mind” apart from the very thought that says so? Or is "the mind" just another label given to a new thought, trying to explain the previous one?

“As I experience the stillness more and more, this thought appears less and less..”

who is this “I”? Can you find a distinct experiencer apart from the stillness itself?

Isn’t it the case that stillness is always here, even when thoughts of “no stillness” arise?

“There is just the awareness/stillness and thoughts/sensations floating by.”

Drop every concept, even “awareness”... Don’t replace it.

Without any labels, where is this “stillness” located? What makes it different from the sensations?

Look right now:
Can you find anything here that is separate from what’s arising?

Where is the position you’re speaking from? Is it inside the body? Behind the eyes? Watching from somewhere???

Is “awareness” something you are or is it just the latest identity the mind is clinging to because it feels safe, neutral, spiritual..??

If awareness is a background or a "container”, where is it? What’s its shape? Can it be found without thought?


Now, pause, drop even the idea of “being aware.”

What’s left?

What happens to the need to hold on?

Go there. Then tell me what you find.

No need to rush to answer, just stay with each one and let it work quietly. Maybe what we call “clarity” is just the absence of the urge to grasp. 😉

Thank you! These took me some time to experience, and WOW!

Is there such a thing as “mind” apart from the very thought that says so? Or is "the mind" just another label given to a new thought, trying to explain the previous one?

No. There is nothing else! Calling it something is just a habit, a new label given trying to explain the previous one.

who is this “I”? Can you find a distinct experiencer apart from the stillness itself?

Isn’t it the case that stillness is always here, even when thoughts of “no stillness” arise?

Yes. The stillness is always there! It is what everything arises in, including the thought that there should be an "experiencer" - but there isn't!

Drop every concept, even “awareness”... Don’t replace it.

Without any labels, where is this “stillness” located? What makes it different from the sensations?

There is nothing, and experience arises. There is no separate "stillness" per se.

Look right now:
Can you find anything here that is separate from what’s arising?

No, there is nothing separate from what's arising.

Where is the position you’re speaking from? Is it inside the body? Behind the eyes? Watching from somewhere???

Sometimes there is a thought that it is from behind the eyes. But when I look there, there is nothing. Then there is no thought that it is from behind the eyes.

Is “awareness” something you are or is it just the latest identity the mind is clinging to because it feels safe, neutral, spiritual..??

If awareness is a background or a "container”, where is it? What’s its shape? Can it be found without thought?

Awareness was just another label the mind was clinging to. When I looked for what was separate from arising, there was nothing, no awareness.

Now, pause, drop even the idea of “being aware.”

What’s left?

What happens to the need to hold on?

Go there. Then tell me what you find.

No need to rush to answer, just stay with each one and let it work quietly. Maybe what we call “clarity” is just the absence of the urge to grasp. 😉

There is just a stream of thoughts, sensations, sounds, sights, all arising and passing. there is nothing in between. everything is impersonal. there is no left over sense of a "me" in either awareness, or stillness, or anything else.

Wow!

Thank you May!

Hey KP, very good to hear that! :)

Yes!!! That’s it!!! You went all the way. You didnt stop at stillness. You didnt settle for being awareness. You dropped everything and what was left was nothing held, and everything happening. Perfect!!

Now, the real "test" begins (so to speak, haha):

Over the next few days, stay aware for the return of the subtle self. It doesnt come with fireworks, it sneaks in as:
– “I’ve got it now.”
– “I shouldn’t be reacting like this.”
– “This shouldn’t be happening to me.”
– “I need to stay in this state.”

These are the whispers of the "ghost self" trying to reassemble. See them immediately. Recognize them for what they are: just thoughts, arising in the same empty space, with no owner, no center, no watcher.

Hold nothing. Claim nothing. Cling to nothing.

And if anything feels “off”… Don’t ask why. Look directly at what is being resisted. What needs to be different? What belief just slipped back in?

There’s nothing to maintain. You cant lose this. Because there’s no one here to have it.

Anything else arising now?

Thank you May! This was very helpful.

Wiill keep an eye out for any comebacks!

When I sit down now, there is a more open feeling. There are sensations coming in from body, senses, and thoughts. There are few constrictions and little tension in the body. The boundary between body and outside is less rigid. All things are happening at once in the same "outside" space.. can be aware of all of them or focus on some of them. It gets easier to widen the aperture and spread the area under the lamp..

I have also started working on fetters 4&5 now. And doing meditation on dissolving the 5 aggregates. Emptiness is palpable now, with substantial periods of nothingness including no thoughts. It is almost becoming the default state.

When craving or aversion arises am able to pause and witness then as sensations/thoughts stay in the gap and let them go!

What is your next instruction for me?! Eagerly awaiting!

Hey KP, that all sounds beautiful... spacious. Peaceful... :)

But look carefully:

What is your next instruction for me?! Eagerly awaiting!

Notice what’s hiding in that eagerness.
Who is waiting?
What is this subtle movement that says something else must come?
Can you locate the one who needs the next step?

Look:

Who is widening the aperture?
Who is able to witness?
Who is doing meditation, working on fetters, or letting go?

Can you find any agent behind these actions?

Now, look at the very sense of progress of being in a “default state.”
Isn’t that just another label, another identity? The one who is “advanced,” “doing well,” “getting somewhere”?

Isn’t that still someone trying to own the emptiness?

And if you look and find only another arising, a sensation, a thought, readiness itself , then let even that go.

Right now, without any instruction, what is lacking?

Can anything be missing if there’s no one separate to miss it?

You don’t need to deepen the gap.
You are the gap, empty, transparent, luminous with appearances.
Let this seeing remain ordinary. No pedestal. No special state.
Just this. Just here.

If craving or aversion visits, let them come. Let them leave.
No need to “do” letting go.
Just notice what clings, and who is said to be doing it.
Is anyone actually doing anything?

And if silence or stillness comes, don’t hold that either.
Let even the sense of peace dissolve.

Now tell me:

What remains when even the “path” disappears?

We can explore from there.

Notice what’s hiding in that eagerness.
Who is waiting?
What is this subtle movement that says something else must come?
Can you locate the one who needs the next step?

No "I" appears. There is no one waiting for the next step. There is no one who needs the next step.

Look:

Who is widening the aperture?
Who is able to witness?
Who is doing meditation, working on fetters, or letting go?

Can you find any agent behind these actions?

I notice no agent.
There is no agent behind these actions.
When I'm in a meeting, then focus is on the sensations from the meeting - people speaking, topics being discussed, memories from previous similar situations, there is no self there.
When the conversation is happening the aperture is narrow - there are no outside sounds, hunger/thirst is forgotten, other meetings are not coming up in mind. There is very high degree of focus on the matters at hand.
When the conversation is complete and I step outside of that time, the aperture widens, there is no singular focus, there is listening to all other sensations as well.
These changes aren’t willed; they simply happen, and are noticed.

Now, look at the very sense of progress of being in a “default state.”
Isn’t that just another label, another identity? The one who is “advanced,” “doing well,” “getting somewhere”?

Isn’t that still someone trying to own the emptiness?

For example, when I'm driving, a restaurant pops up in sight, and there is a reaction that arises about eating something there. There is a judgement that it is unhealthy, and that it is bad for this reaction to arise. As these happen (and unlike before) there is both visibility of each of these thoughts, and the ability to let go of them as they arise.

And if you look and find only another arising, a sensation, a thought, readiness itself , then let even that go.

Right now, without any instruction, what is lacking?

In this moment, nothing is lacking, everything can be let go.
In other moments, reactions to things arise, and can be let go, then nothing is lacking.

Can anything be missing if there’s no one separate to miss it?

You don’t need to deepen the gap.
You are the gap, empty, transparent, luminous with appearances.
Let this seeing remain ordinary. No pedestal. No special state.
Just this. Just here.

Beautiful, thank you. Yes. This just is. It is empty, it is not a special state.

Is anyone actually doing anything?

No. Things happen, there is no "one" who is there doing it.

What I once labeled “rewarding” now simply appears as passing sensations—there’s gladness without a ‘me’ to own it. Even appreciation flows through this openness, unclaimed.

Now tell me:

What remains when even the “path” disappears?

When things happen, when I'm out and about, sensations/thoughts arise with reactions, in the moment, they can be let go. Sometimes the reactions are disproportionate to the sensations.
One way to reduce/remove these reactions seems to be to continue to be in the moment and keep letting go in that moment. That's the practice

Then there is a memory/thought that there are specific practices which can help to lessen these reactions over time so they don't even arise. This thought can also be let go.

In the moment, there is nothing that remains when everything is let go. No path, no steps, nothing to do.

Thank you May!

Hey KP!

What youve seen is already incredibly clear, reactions arise and dissolve, appreciation flows freely, and no “self” is needed to manage any of it. Thats beautiful!

But now, stop and look again, really look:

You said:

“Sometimes the reactions are disproportionate… one way to reduce them is to stay in the moment… that’s the practice.”

Can you see what just crept back in?

Subtly, quietly, the idea returns:
That someone is responsible.
That you are managing experience.
That there is a path to walk and a practitioner walking it.

Pause here.

Who is practicing?

When a reaction appears, where is the one choosing to reduce it?
When “letting go” happens, can you find anyone doing it?

See directly now, without relying on memory or explanation.

Isn’t “being present,” “letting go,” and even “practice” just more appearances? Just more waves in the stream?

And the sense that “I am letting go”, or “this is working”?

That’s the last disguise… of the one who never existed!

Let it all fall away.

Let go of letting go.
Drop the path.
Drop the one walking.

Right now, before the next thought:
What is left to do?
What is missing?
What is separate?

Let’s explore from this exact edge.

Hey KP!

What youve seen is already incredibly clear, reactions arise and dissolve, appreciation flows freely, and no “self” is needed to manage any of it. Thats beautiful!

Yay! Thanks May!

Who is practicing?

There is no practice! This just is!

When a reaction appears, where is the one choosing to reduce it?

That is a later thought judging the reaction.

When “letting go” happens, can you find anyone doing it?

There is no one choosing to reduce it or doing it. There is a later thought "I have let go".

See directly now, without relying on memory or explanation.

Isn’t “being present,” “letting go,” and even “practice” just more appearances? Just more waves in the stream?

And the sense that “I am letting go”, or “this is working”?

There are sensations coming in and thoughts going through. Everything is just appearing on the emptiness.

Right now, before the next thought:
What is left to do?
What is missing?
What is separate?

Let’s explore from this exact edge.

Before the next thoughts - there is nothing, no memory, no stories, no pressure, no expectation, no future, only the sensations in the present moment passing by.
There is nothing left to do because everything just is.
There is nothing missing, since there is nothing but the senses and the sensations they trigger.
There are just sensations coming in, there is not way to differentiate one from another on the base of nothingness. There is nothingness and the sensations, but the nothingness is not really there, so there is only sensations that are all together.

There is no need to label practice, it just is how it is.

Hey KP!

This is very subtle now, and incredibly rich
You’ve let go of stories, of practice, of the self
But now let’s look one layer deeper

You say:

“There are only sensations”

So please look directly and answer

Are “sensations” actually separate from thought?
Or is “sensation” just another label, one that appears after something is already happening?

When sensation is not named
No “pressure”
No “sound”
No “touch”
What’s actually here?

Not “sensation”
Not “thought”
Just this
Raw, unclaimed, without division

So even “sensation” is a wave, isn’t it?
Another concept trying to stabilize what cannot be held

So now, before the word “sensation” arises
What exactly is here?

Don’t answer
Don’t touch thought
Let this one burn

Hi May

Started reading a book, and after some time realized that in the reading there was only the reading, there was no I at all! Then went for a walk, the same, the world was there, sounds, sights, people, etc, but there was no I at all!

So please look directly and answer

Are “sensations” actually separate from thought?
Or is “sensation” just another label, one that appears after something is already happening?

"Sensation" is another label.

When it is touch, between the actual unnameable thing and saying "sensation/pressure/etc" there is a gap. Then an image arises or thought arises after another gap.

When it is sight, then I can't see a gap between seeing something and the name coming up as a thought.I can see them as different things - ie the image of book and thought of book, for example, but there is little or no time between them. It's like seeing becomes a list of incoming object names almost. I relax my view and take in the full area with soft gaze, then all these things are there, and object names keep popping up with some time in between.

So now, before the word “sensation” arises
What exactly is here?

Don’t answer
Don’t touch thought
Let this one burn

Tried this in multiple sits (closed eyes), and this is how it was. The sensation is present as a kind of congealed thing in the nothingness/present. When I begin sitting and before thought, an image appears of my foot on the floor for example. Then it goes away. Then there is the sensation, unnameable. However the sensation feels solid permanent, until I shift, or move for example.

Will continue to sit with sensations.

Thank you.

Hey KP,

You’re noticing something very important now.

At first, sensations seem to appear, like the pressure of the foot on the floor, or the feeling of sitting.

But look carefully.

Before any word comes in, before calling it “pressure,” “floor,” or even “sensation,” what is actually here?

It’s not solid in itself, solidity appears only when a thought says, “This is firm,” “This is stable.”

Without the thought, there is just a raw experience, shifting, moving, without any fixed shape.

It’s like waves forming and dissolving in open space.

You don’t need to stop anything or change anything, just notice,
the sense of “permanence” or “thingness” only comes after thought touches the experience.

Stay with that freshness, let it show itself naturally.

There’s no rush, no effort, just quiet seeing.