Through the gateless gate

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

I'll be careful to not let these things distract me. What's next?

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

This is next:



Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hey Stacy

I’ve been doing this exercise over the last day and a half and here are some results:

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please

When at work:
Looking at computer screen, simply = image/color
Feeling fingers typing, simply = sensation
Hearing construction noises around, simply = sound
Figuring out machine programming, simply = thought

When driving home from work:
Leaving work reflecting on the workday, simply = thought
Seeing a cute baby lamb, simpy = image/color
Smelling the country air, simply = smell
Feeling the wind from the open window, simply = sensation
Hearing the cars passing by, simply = sound
Feeling tension in my back, simply = sensation

I’ve noticed several instances of what seemed to be a simultaneous mixtures of these. For example, talking to a coworker, simply = sound + thought; driving through the country, simply image + sound + sensation + thought.

I’ve noticed a strong tendency to nearly automatically judge or label experience as “good” or “bad”, “pleasant” or “unpleasant”. I’ve also noticed the large majority of thoughts are related to “me” or “I”. These are related because whenever a judgment arises it’s always “I don’t like this” or “I do like this” or “I wish this was different”. Thus these judgements always seem centered around this “I” thought, even when the “I” thought is unconscious.

Also some sensations seem to have a feedback thought pattern associated with them which amplifies the sensation and keeps looping. Like sometimes there’s a sensation of darkness or contraction in my neck and back which automatically raises thoughts of resistance (“this feels bad”) but these thoughts make the contraction sensation contract even more which causes the resisting thoughts to increase. I remember you said

Depression is simply a result of believing untrue thoughts

which makes me think these thought-sensation feedback patterns are basically beliefs. When I let go of the belief it helps.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Hi Andrew,

Good work! Your examples are good and your observations are correct.

All of the words on the left are things we made up. And yes, while "Seeing," "Hearing," etc are made up, we have to use something, so we have pared it down to the bare minimum to show you the difference between Direct Experience (DE) and the thoughts and labels we pile onto that, including "I."

which makes me think these thought-sensation feedback patterns are basically beliefs. When I let go of the belief it helps.

This is true. The Work of Byron Katie can help you let go of beliefs. There is a One Belief at a Time worksheet under something like "Do The Work" on her site. I don't guide that, but they have a free helpline, too.

Here is the next step:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

I completed the exercise and noticed some things. Here are some of the things I wrote down on my paper:

1. Using “I”

I am breathing
I am feeling the pen and paper
I am hearing a saw drill
I feel my shirt
I feel my stomach seems heavy
I think about the weather

2. Not using “I”

Hearing a drill
Seeing a pen
Hearing people talking
Thinking about writing
Thinking about morning routine
Feeling warm and kind of sticky
Feeling tiredness in upper right back and neck

Question answers:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

No, neither way of describing experience seems truer than the other because the description is not the experience (no matter what the description is). Though, perhaps not using “I” feels a little bit truer because it doesn’t presuppose a self which isn’t directly experienced anyway so maybe that feels a little truer. When writing “I this” and “I that” the experience seems more distant somehow so maybe that would be less true? I suppose the “I” assumption is kind of like a barrier of sorts to true reality (I suppose because it’s false?). I definitely prefer the sans “I” descriptions somehow.

2. What is here without labels?

The same “stuff” is here no matter what labels are applied to them. Like the chair being sat in and the computer I’m typing on are here no matter what I label them. But then, they are not permanently here. I suppose experience is here without labels. No matter what transient content is in experience, experience itself remains.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They just describe it. Though, like I said above, using the “I” thought to describe experience seems to affect it in that experience seems a bit more distant. That said, the “I” thought is itself an experience so it can’t be said that labels truly affect experience. They just describe it. The experience of distance is itself an experience after all.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Somehow it feels better to describe experience without reference to “I”. Maybe because I have a negative view of myself, or because it’s more true to reality because self is in fact absent. Though the bodily sensations themselves didn’t necessarily change (at least I don’t think they did). Comparing experiences with “I” thought compared to without “I” thought seems somehow difficult to put into words. If anything I was more aware of my body when writing without “I”.


In general it seems this exercise has been helpful in that it’s easier for me now to “access” the direct experience more readily. I find when I sit still and quiet my mind, direct experience is easier to “access” or notice (and it’s nice). But then when I’m busy doing something like working, by default I switch into “mental mode” and direct experience as such goes unnoticed for periods of time (sometimes long periods of time).

Thanks
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Great. There are a couple of follow-ups to this pointer.

First, about truth & lies or Body Yes and Body No. Please watch this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RnrkOD7 ... uBphAoK764

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I."

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

experience is here without labels.

Yes, there is a follow-up pointer for that. But one at at time. We'll do it next.

You are doing well.

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

I wanted to post a short update to let you know I've been experimenting with what you've mentioned here. I'm planning on writing in greater length soon. Thank you for the video recommendation as well. After some simple experimentation I believe I can resonate with the message. When I tell myself "1 + 1 = 3" there is a distinct heaviness feeling in my gut / solar plexus. When I tell myself "1 + 1 = 2" there is a distinct lightness and relaxation experienced. This is somehow surprising to me. I will respond in more depth soon.

Thanks,
Andrew VD

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Andrew. This doesn't require a lot of explanation. It sounds like you found the truth/lie or yes/no feelings. If you have questions, do ask.

Here is the next pointer I mentioned:

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hello Stacy

It's funny, at first when I read the word label 'GREEN' something of a mental image of greenness came to mind. It was only as I kept reading that I realized the word is actually red! This experiment leads me to place less importance on thoughts in general as it's becoming more and more clear that, as you said, they do not truly represent real experience.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Green is just a label that overlays the actual experience of red. In a funny way labels are part of experience as well (like a mental 'sensation' of green when reading the word label 'GREEN'), though even here the sensation is not the same as the word label itself.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No, the label itself has no correlation with what is actually seen / experienced. The labels are secondary to the experienced reality which is primary. Experience contains the word labels, the word labels don't contain the experience in that sense.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

That's great, Andrew. Exactly!

Now let's bring it all together with this one:


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

This exercise is rather remarkable when it "clicks". For example, sensation of typing is experienced/known. Color of the computer screen is experienced. Thoughts about writing are experienced. But is "computer" actually experienced? Since "computer" is simply a mental label applied to this "group of experiences" one cannot say truly that it is experienced. In this case no mental label is ever truly experienced/known because they're not direct (though thoughts themselves are experienced/known, but their content is not). This is very interesting and thought provoking (ironically). In this case nothing is experienced (that is labelled) and at the same time everything is (that is not labelled).

The more I practice "staying with" direct experience the easier it becomes, however it still seems there is a long way to go (even though it's literally impossible to get away from this direct experience... it still seems natural to "fall back" into the mental maze and stay there).

Thank you for helping guide me through this Stacy. Much appreciation to you :)

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Good, Andrew. You're welcome.

Your logic isn't going to get you there, though.

Did you notice that "self" is also just a thought? A label?

Loving

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

Did you notice that "self" is also just a thought? A label?

Yes, it is realized that self is just another label. It's oddly easy to forget this, though "improvement" seems to be happening.

Sometimes it seems there is little to write. I trust this is ok.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Short answers are great. Less thinking. More LOOKING.

How does it FEEL to see that "self" is just a thought?


Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

Sorry for the delay.

How does it FEEL to see that "self" is just a thought?

It feels confusing but otherwise just the same. Maybe slightly liberating? d

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Early in our marriage (maybe 12 years ago), I was going through a pornography addiction and my wife found out about it. I lied to her that I would never engage in it again. It was a very dark time. I didn't know what to say and I hoped if I promised, maybe it would come true. The whole situation felt very dark and heavy and just dreadful.

When I say "1 + 1 = 14" there is a slight sensation of contraction as you mentioned, however I do not notice it in my chest area but always in my upper right back/neck area. Then when I say "1 + 1 = 2" I notice a slight "lightening" as you also mentioned, though again, not in the heart but in the same upper right back/neck area.

Recently when I say "1 + 1 = ....?" there is an anticipation to predict what will be said next (like part of me is trying to predict whether a different part of me will tell the truth or not). This sensation feels unique. It feels like this gap "...?" is like an undefined or uncomputable thing that kind of shuts down a prediction-making part of the brain which is a good sensation.

Thanks Stacy,
Andrew