Ready to ask for help

[silverlode]

Hi again Vince
Don't mean to burden you with more moans after that last cartload (although they're all genuine issues) rather, this is what has occurred to me🫥 since that last post
Here's a query for you Vince:
It's to do with looking for the self - that we already know isn't there; and I have been supposing that a hefty non-seeing of that could tip the balance. But now I'm wondering if it might be as important to notice how the self isn't there in one situation after another; with different contexts and perspectives.
So, I might say 'there isn't a me who has this habitual response that I took for granted', or 'there isn't a me who must indulge this habit because that's what I've always done' or 'there isn't someone here who should feel responsible for another's experience'or 'where is this 'I 'who believes they must be doomed to 'not getting it''
That seems practical and experiential. What do you say Vince?

[vinceschubert]

I agree wholeheartedly with the theory of what you're saying: looking, noticing, letting, accepting, recognising, not believing etc and it 'feels' so right, and that informs me (argh! that word again) that this IS the right direction, this IS where to look. I'm looking out for the traps and false paths when I sit and when I notice a thought or tendency in moving-about life.
Maybe doing that is part of the trap itself, so

Good. But now, drop the *idea* that this is "the right direction." That’s just another layer of thought reinforcing the sense that there’s still somewhere to go.

Right now—without referring to any idea, belief, or sense of progress—**what is actually here?**

Not what you *think* is here. Not what feels “right.” Just **what is.**

Strip away even the subtle stance of “looking out for traps.”

What happens when there is no stance at all? No seeker. No right path. No false path.

Only this.

Right now—**what is missing?**

It's to do with looking for the self - that we already know isn't there; and I have been supposing that a hefty non-seeing of that could tip the balance. But now I'm wondering if it might be as important to notice how the self isn't there in one situation after another; with different contexts and perspectives.
So, I might say 'there isn't a me who has this habitual response that I took for granted', or 'there isn't a me who must indulge this habit because that's what I've always done' or 'there isn't someone here who should feel responsible for another's experience'or 'where is this 'I 'who believes they must be doomed to 'not getting it''
That seems practical and experiential. What do you say Vince?

Now you’re seeing it. Not in some final, dramatic way—but in the only way that matters: **directly, in real life, situation by situation.**

Yes—this is it. Not some huge tipping point, but an undeniable, **continuous recognition**:

- **“Where is the ‘I’ that must react this way?”**
- **“Where is the ‘I’ that is stuck?”**
- **“Where is the ‘I’ that must figure this out?”**

Every time you look, the answer is the same: **nowhere.**

This is no longer about chasing some massive shift. It’s about watching, again and again, how this illusion **never actually holds up.**

So keep going. Keep testing it. Not as a mental game, but as raw, undeniable *fact.*

Every moment is a new chance to see: **was there ever a separate "me" in any of it?**
..and by "see" it doesn't mean think about it. It means in your actual experiencing.

with love

vince

[silverlode]

Hi Vince
I'll just dive straight in with my notes:
Watching thought after thought coming out of nowhere and passing into nothingness... they carry less of an imperative to be attached to a self
Can sometimes see that detached observation of the content.
Questioning assumptions because I can see they're not true / real.

Here's how it runs usually - not necessarily in this order:
What comes up?
Intention Pfff!
Staying Now Pfff!
Correct? Pfff!
What next? Pfff!
What is thought doing? Pfff!
Let go Pfff!
Here, Now Pfff!
Tactile sensation Pfff!
What could / should I be doing? Pfff!
What to report? Pfff!
Who? Pfff!
Is there any limit to the number of times you can ask the 'who' question?
- I suspect not!?
Several times you've referred to 'Just what is here' and 'What is missing'. These two prompts arrive simultaneously and they halt the rumination.
Keep laughing out loud (alone in the car) and finds that cuts the thread.
Surprising how there is an in-the-moment experience or insight, and then later it can't be recalled. These 'no-self' moments don't have the language storing capacity that Story experiences do. I suppose there is a richer vocabulary for the stuff that enchants us!
'What is' seems a bit bland but appears more real, so I can see myself spicing things up with a story if I just focus on the here and now for too long. How the mind loves to dramatize - and especially issues around exploring this! but there is less believing the stories and consequently they're getting less attention.
However, I recognise too much reflection about the process to the detriment of direct experience
To be honest I do spend too much time thinking about what I'm going to report to you. That becomes another goal. Trying to get a Press Release while the news is still hot!
Haven't addressed all your questions systematically but I do keep reading through all the posts and different points stand out at different times.
I hope there's something here to go on; you've given some great material so far.
Thanks Vince
Steve

[vinceschubert]

What comes up?
Intention Pfff!
Staying Now Pfff!
Correct? Pfff!
What next? Pfff!
What is thought doing? Pfff!
Let go Pfff!
Here, Now Pfff!
Tactile sensation Pfff!
What could / should I be doing? Pfff!
What to report? Pfff!
Who? Pfff!
Is there any limit to the number of times you can ask the 'who' question?
- I suspect not!?

Exactly—*Pfff!* Every single time.

No matter what arises, when you check—*nothing.*

This is it. The mind throws up its usual nonsense:
– What should I do? *Pfff!*
– Am I on the right track? *Pfff!*
– Who is here to get anywhere? *Pfff!*

It’s just the habitual machine spinning. And every time you look—*nothing real is found.*

As for “who?”—ask it as many times as you like. A thousand. A million. Every time a thought claims ownership, check. The answer is always the same: *Pfff!*

So, knowing this, what’s left to do?

Several times you've referred to 'Just what is here' and 'What is missing'. These two prompts arrive simultaneously and they halt the rumination.

Yes! That’s it. **They cut straight through.**

Rumination is just a loop of mental noise, spinning on its own. But when you check:

**1. What is here?**
**2. What is missing?**

—there’s nothing for thought to hold onto. No seeker. No lack. Just *this.*

And notice: **you don’t “do” this stopping.** It just happens.

Every time you ask, rumination collapses into silence. And in that silence—**is anything ever actually missing?**

Stay with that. Let the question dissolve everything before thought fills the space. What remains?

Surprising how there is an in-the-moment experience or insight, and then later it can't be recalled. These 'no-self' moments don't have the language storing capacity that Story experiences do.

Not surprising..
Great observation.

'What is' seems a bit bland but appears more real

Stay with it. There's richness beyond the bland.

I recognise too much reflection about the process to the detriment of direct experience

..again, appreciate the direct experience of the process.

I'm much more interested in what you discover as you contemplate than I am in answers.

Haven't addressed all your questions systematically

waiting with bated breath...

with love

vince
I do spend too much time thinking about what I'm going to report to you.

[silverlode]

Hi Vince
Hope you're doing well
Here is my latest offering - all in a chunk. Not set out in LU Forum Q&A style🫣

Find it well nigh impossible to 'experience' and report at the same time so this is all a bit second-hand:
When sitting for a session I start with observing / negating all the thoughts and feelings that come along, otherwise it's as distracting and unsettling as watching TV -looking at the mind churning over it's stuff!
So the 'who' question comes up and there's no answer to that.
Then if course nothing can be found that is 'missing', which leads on to the question you posed: "What's left to do?"
That's where it stops for now.
Meanwhile I've been reading through and trying some of the exercises on the '1ness. Info' and 'Pizza Time' site. It looks brilliant stuff! but it's too soon to be asking for clarification on areas where I might get stuck - because I don't know what they are yet 😏
Occurs to me again that there are quite a few words here but not a great proportion are about Direct Experience. I guess this is partly because most of the essence of the actual experience gets lost later, when it's second-hand. I'll see if I can remedy that
Yours
Steve

[vinceschubert]

Hi Steve,

When sitting for a session I start with observing / negating all the thoughts and feelings that come along, otherwise it's as distracting and unsettling as watching TV -looking at the mind churning over it's stuff!

Good. But now, go further:

Instead of **negating** thoughts, just see them **as they are**—mental noise, appearing and disappearing. No need to push them away. Let them play out, like background chatter in a café.

Who exactly would be the one “negating” them anyway?

Thoughts happen. Sensations happen. But **is there anyone doing it?**

Right now, as the mind churns—who is watching? Can you find a watcher? Or is there just watching happening?

Let everything unfold without resistance.

And check—without a story about it—**is anything actually a problem?**

So the 'who' question comes up and there's no answer to that.

Exactly. No answer. No “who.”

It’s just an empty habit—thought looping, looking for someone who was never there.

Now, instead of letting that turn into another thought spiral, **sit in the absence.**

No answer—so what now?

Is anything actually wrong?

Is there a gap that needs to be filled, or is there just **this?**

Then if course nothing can be found that is 'missing', which leads on to the question you posed: "What's left to do?"
That's where it stops for now.

Yes. That’s where it stops.

And now—without effort, without expectation—**just be here.**

No “who.”
No “missing.”
No “next.”

Nothing left to do.

Just this.

with love

vince

[silverlode]

Hi Vince
I've been so involved in a project that I haven't had time recently to review your Words Of Wisdom or to write a new post. But hopefully from Sunday onwards I'll be back on it.
Funny, but I've been continuously aware that I've NOT been doing 'something' while I've been distracted but equally the intention is to get back on track ASAP. I'm looking forward to chatting again
Steve

[vinceschubert]

No worries Steve..

[silverlode]

Hi Vince
On vacation now. Thought there'd be more free time for Looking and laughing. There hasn't been until today. Now there is. I think. What quantity of time is needed? Stupid question!
Meanwhile, practiced laughing and going over our exchanges. Stopping and looking. Stopping and noticing. Stopping 'in the gap' and waiting. Noticing what the time is - Now or then?
Pfff! the accumulating thoughts and checking the what and the who? Even if no obvious results materialize, it so seems like the best thing to be doing to assist the dissolving of the illusions.
Also, letting things be as they are (as far as possible now) and experiencing without modifying what is.
Can't claim unequivocally that I'm not caught in a bubble of recursive expectation but this feels right at the moment. Awaiting correction 😏
Steve

[vinceschubert]

practiced laughing and going over our exchanges. Stopping and looking. Stopping and noticing. Stopping 'in the gap' and waiting. Noticing what the time is - Now or then?
Pfff! the accumulating thoughts and checking the what and the who? Even if no obvious results materialize, it so seems like the best thing to be doing to assist the dissolving of the illusions.
Also, letting things be as they are (as far as possible now) and experiencing without modifying what is.
Can't claim unequivocally that I'm not caught in a bubble of recursive expectation but this feels right at the moment. Awaiting correction

Good. You’re close. So now I’m not going to soothe you. I’m going to **cut it**.

You say you're “awaiting correction.” That’s the *seeker* poking its head up. The one who still believes there’s a “right” way. Still waiting for confirmation. Still hoping someone will point and say, *“Yes, you’ve got it.”*

**Drop that. Right now.**

Tell me:
What exactly is *waiting* right now? Describe it—not as an idea, but in raw, felt terms. Where is it located? What does it feel like?

Go into it. Not conceptually. Viscerally.

**Find the mechanism that’s waiting for something to change. Right now.**
Where is it?
What’s driving it?
Is it *you*?
Or just another pattern playing out?

Then check again:

**Is anything missing—right now?**
Check from the neck down.
What is lacking in raw, unfiltered experience?

Don’t tell me what feels “right.”
Don’t tell me it “seems helpful.”

Tell me **what was actually found** in your body when you looked for the mechanism of waiting.

Report back. Don’t move on.

vince

[silverlode]

Dear Vince
I appreciate you being straight with me. The'awaiting correction' and waiting for something to change is a language game - a pattern being played out. I'm exploring the visceral approach to the way these things exist in the body but it's a learning curve and will take a little time. Don't want to shoot off quick fire answers.
Looking and finding is the approach but I feel such a novice when putting it into practice. There's a storm of mental noise - even when laughing is employed - a challenge to stay with it! However, will pursue this and won't 'Move on' and will 'Report back' when there is something to report. I realise this here is a report about the process but I'm intending to report tangible experience.
Steve

[vinceschubert]

Dear Vince
I appreciate you being straight with me. The'awaiting correction' and waiting for something to change is a language game - a pattern being played out. I'm exploring the visceral approach to the way these things exist in the body but it's a learning curve and will take a little time. Don't want to shoot off quick fire answers.
Looking and finding is the approach but I feel such a novice when putting it into practice. There's a storm of mental noise - even when laughing is employed - a challenge to stay with it! However, will pursue this and won't 'Move on' and will 'Report back' when there is something to report. I realise this here is a report about the process but I'm intending to report tangible experience.

Good. You’re in it. Right where it burns.

Now drop the novice story. Completely.
That’s the last refuge of the seeker:
“I’m new to this, it’ll take time, I’m still learning.”
That’s the self, surviving through humility. It’s still a stance. Still positioning.

And the storm? Perfect.
That’s the fuel.
Let it rage. Don’t fight it. Don’t quieten it.
Your only job is to see what’s real inside it.

So now—cut through all description.

Right now:
- Where is the sense of “me” located?
- What exact physical sensations mark it?
- When a thought says “I feel like a novice,” what is the bodily effect?
Where does it land?
What contracts?
- What’s actually here if you don’t name any of it?

Do this now. No preparation. No performance. Just get in.
Then report the physical experience. Nothing else.

Keep going! You're closer than you think.
Anything other than that is an excuse. A diversion.

Much love & compassion

vince

[silverlode]

Hi Vince
Have been 'occupied' but here goes:

Right now:
- Where is the sense of “me” located?
- What exact physical sensations mark it?

A springboard - leaning forwards
A comfortable den
A Powerbank in the head
'Can't tell, won't tell'
Mild jolt in the stomach
In the stories
A different impression comes up every time - the only response I can come up with is 'there's no one answer to that'

When a thought says “I feel like a novice,” what is the bodily effect

Shrinking

Where does it land?

Out back - in the dump

What contracts?

Chest & abdomen

What’s actually here if you don’t name any of it?

The only term I can come up with is suchness

Now I'm getting lost in all this cutting, pasting and quoting, so will have to send😵‍💫
Just to report that I'm often 'exploring that storm and letting it be, to see what is real.
Loved your YouTube meeting from last weekend - especially the stuff about 'Delusion versus Illusion' Feel like I'm in the middle

[vinceschubert]

Hi Steve, ok, i know that i get carried away with this stuff. I'll try and keep it short and simple.

the only response I can come up with is 'there's no one answer to that'

When the sense of “me” arises—
what exact physical sensation makes it feel real, and does that sensation belong to anyone?

What’s actually here if you don’t name any of it?

The only term I can come up with is suchness

i want a description of experience. (maybe "suchness" is that?)

especially the stuff about 'Delusion versus Illusion' Feel like I'm in the middle

Good. That tension means you’re right at the edge.

Delusion = believing the story is real.
Illusion = seeing the story play, but not being fooled.

Feeling “in the middle” means the story still tugs at you, but you’re starting to see it as story. That’s the crack.

Now:
1. Let the sense of “me” arise.
2. Find the strongest physical sensation linked to it.
3. Ask: Does this sensation belong to anyone?

Stay right there. Don’t move. Report what happens.

vince

[silverlode]

Hi Vince
Been away on a distraction. Here is a summary of my experience now and during the distraction:

When the sense of “me” arises—
what exact physical sensation makes it feel real, and does that sensation belong to anyone?

The 'sense of me' is always some sort of recognition - a remembering.
Physically, it can be in the head, chest, shoulders or even a shell, all around the body.

In my experience, it doesn't seem to belong to anyONE but by definition it's that which defines belonging as a concept.

i want a description of experience. (maybe "suchness" is that?)

if I don't name any of it, there is a sense of spaciousness and freedom. It's just a hint of something: pointing at it.
When I used the term 'suchness' I meant letting things be as there are, without habitual involvement. A sort of gazing at freeness.

especially the stuff about 'Delusion versus Illusion' Feel like I'm in the middle

Good. That tension means you’re right at the edge.

Feeling “in the middle” means the story still tugs at you, but you’re starting to see it as story. That’s the crack.

Yeah, but stuck there! I suspect I may be content to be stuck, because I can keep the comforts of this experience together with the allure of peeping over the fence at the Realm Beyond - even if part of me knows that you can't have it both ways.

Now:
1. Let the sense of “me” arise.
2. Find the strongest physical sensation linked to it.
3. Ask: Does this sensation belong to anyone?

Stay right there. Don’t move. Report what happens.

To be honest, I've gone over this point a number of times. Nothing materializes, and I get frustrated / distracted. Sometimes distraction entices me away for hours or days. But it holds a fascination that draws me to keep coming back to this exercise.
As so often happens: a little voice says "Do more, try harder, be determined / consistent" but the voice is not convincing because it just seems to be repeating mechanical learned responses.