The Gate

Hi Mateus, this is what another guide wrote when reading your answers - "I would say both his answers indicate some lack of clarity on when he is referencing mental objects and relying on stories about them.
When he references 'the whole', it strikes me as an abstraction for simply seeing 'my experience'.
Karma, spirit, cells, radiation, molecules, indicate a lack of clarity between abstraction and speculation vs. what is found in the apparent here and now"

Now that might be an actual lack of clarity or it might be the way it was expressed. So, here's a rant...
This stuff (awakening) is about your experiencing. Nothing else!
Another way to put this is to say that the only thing that is actual for you is your reaction to your interpretation of current experiencing. That's it! Everything else is conceptual.
The absolute (if there is such existence) cannot be known.
When a tree is observed by a human and a dog and an insect and a frog, each has a distinctly different perception because senses are attuned to different modalities. Which one reflects reality?
My point is that what it actually is, in absolute terms is beyond the capability of humans to experience. We only have our interpretation.
Awakening is about recognizing those delusions (or illusions) that we previously took to be actual.
It is imperative that you discriminate between the experience of the presence of a thought and the conceptual reality of its content.
With this in mind, would you answer those 6 questions totally from your recent or current experience. (please)

vince

Hi vince

Thank you and to the other guides too for taking the time to go through this. You brought up a very good point.

I'll answer the questions again as you asked. I'm a bit ill at the moment, so it'll be at some time either later today or tomorrow.


Mateus

Ok Mateus, rest and get well. Remember to use any discomfort as an opportunity to observe how thoughts intend to distract from unpleasant sensations.

love

vince

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No. There is no separate, isolated self to be found, and there's never been one.

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

It comes into being because of repetitive thoughts about a self in relation to which everything else is described. Thoughts and feelings intertwine to form a story. Language also plays a role by labelling and reinforcing the idea of the centrality of the self to the story.
For example, when answering question 1 above, there were thoughts about myself, my body, about itching in my skin, and a feeling of property or belonging and concern when thinking about the body. But they were recognized as thoughts and feelings, there was no isolated entity to be found.


After seeing through, life becomes lighter because there are less thoughts and feelings of resistance to what is happening. Less worrying too. Much less identification with the story, sensations and thoughts.

Some Examples:
- When sick, pain, nausea and fever are still felt, but there is much less resisting their presence. The situation then gets more tolerable and there is an underlying feeling of "this is allright".
- When considering studying about AI and programming, sometimes it seemed exciting, others it felt like just a distraction. It becomes noticible that all of that are just transitory thoughts and feeelings, and there isn't personal identification with them. Even indecision and doubt are less bothersome than before.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels normal, matter-of-fact. There is a sense of harmony or calmness when not entangled on the content of thoughts.
After the dialogue, thinking and feelings got calmer in content. Unpleasent thoughts and feelings still show up, but they don't stick.
When thinking gets intense, things might feel more turbulent, but attention frequently comes back to what is by itself.

The process is still ongoing. Sometimes thoughts about the self are followed by thoughts saying there is no self. Thoughts and feelings of confusion about what to think or do come too, and there are periods of not wanting to do anything or feeling distanced because of this. All these thoughts and feelings come and go by themselves, and are recognized as part of the experience.
Today it is calmer, fewer thoughts. The experience is just happening without much commentary, thoughts aren't sticking, including the thought of not-identifying with other thoughts!

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

It happened gradually over a few weeks, so no memorable moments of insight. The earliest time "so actually there is no self to be found, huh." appeared, it was a regular thought.

Although not about "seeing" exactly, two remarkable instances were:
- when it became clear that the story of a person going through a long journey to improve, overcoming many hardships, and that because of it this story is important in itself provoked thoughts and feelings of suffering. Seeking determines that fulfillment isn't present.
- when focusing on what is before labelling, the feeling of everything blending.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

They don't really happen. There is no separate self pondering or choosing anything. There are only thoughts and sensations about doing so. The events don't need someone with agency to happen.

Examples:
- When answering this question, the thought of the answer pop up automatically directed by the questions that was asked; the writing is also automatic; all movements of hands, mouse, eyes, head, body happen without someone commanding.
- When looking at my hand and seeing if "I" control it, the hand moves first and a thought claiming the movement follows right after.
- When walking in a garden and taking in the wind, sun, warmth and smells earlier today, it was clear how the body could move and use objects by itself.
- When practising in Duolingo, reading, hearing, the answer popping as a thought and the mouse picking the corresponding words all happened by themselves.
- When folding clothes and not getting too involved with content of thoughts, it was clear how everything was happening automatically.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

There is no isolated "I", nor there is any "choosing or opting" and there is no responsibility in experience. There just thoughts feelings of all of these.

For example:
- Due to sickness, I lost a few shifts at work and that caused worries about finances and I'm doing something about it. Even though it sounds like a story with somebody doing and feeling, thoughts and feelings just came and went, and actions happened without anyone doing them.

6) Anything to add?

- These "discussions between self vs no-self thoughts" are diminishing. Today, thoughts about not-identifying weren't so intrusive.

Hi Mateus, At LU now you will be turned blue indicating that the guides that read your thread are happy that you have seen through the delusion of a self running the show.
This marks the point of the beginning of a lifelong 'journey', where you will contend with unexposed beliefs that lead to 'selfing'. To get skilled in the art of seeing what triggers these to arise, we need to keep this stuff active until it becomes the normal. With this in mind I am inviting you to any (or all) of 4 weekly zoom groups where others are also 'deepening'.
If you are interested then send me your email address to vinceschubert@gmail.com and I will add you to the notification list, or alternatively just turn up.
There is a meetup every Saturday at 9 pm (Sydney Australia time)
and one each Monday 7 am ( Sydney Australia time)
and each Wednesday at 4 pm (Sydney Australia time)
and every Friday 8 am (Sydney time) - never published.
You can check your local time here: https://www.worldtimebuddy.com

Please note that it's always the same time on the same link
Arriving late and leaving early is fine.
Click here to Join Zoom Meeting 
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09
Here is a link to all of the published recordings so you can see what it is about. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... tCHDUBmEwX

vince

Hi, Vince!


Thanks a lot for everything. It is a great work, very benefitial and a beautiful thing.
Thanks a lot to you, who guided directly, and to all other people who took part in any way.
I'll decide on one of the options and show up.


Again, thank you very much!


Mateus