A Quest for Shedding Relentless Doubt

[ty0]

It seems remembering is important, as well as a kind of faith that in the moment it might not ‘do’ anything, but that just being with direct sensation will ultimately lead to the freedom being sought.

Though here another form of seeking arises

Yes this is another form of seeking. I'm sure you've noticed that when you're thinking about that, you're never at peace with what's happening.

Though here another form of seeking arises… it’s more like a remembering there is nothing to seek and being here with what is is enough, even if it doesn’t feel like it. A faith in this I guess?

This is still calling what's happening "enough", when it feels "not enough". It's still imagining that there could be something other than what's happening, something to compare to, that allows you to judge what's happening as "enough" or "not enough". But what is there apart from what's happening? Even if you're constantly looking 30 seconds into the future, does that time exist apart from what's happening? How can you judge this, what are you comparing it to? And is the imagining of a different time not also a part of what's happening, and is the judgement not also?

We judge like we have a say but we don't.

[Woodlands]

Totally missed this reply, sorry...

This sparks a memory of one of my first realisations - where there seemed to be a full understanding of this. I recall this sense of 'oh, this [a feeling i would have ordinarily experienced as unpleasant] is just what is happening now too - how could I experience this as 'bad/not right/not okay' without having something else to compare it to? Something else my mind says it should be?' Which I realise is another thought that I'm now comparing 'this' to. Is this thought of what this understanding could be like (by comparing it to a past memory) obscuring the possibility of understanding now in this moment as it is?

It's like there's some understanding but something is obscuring it. Is it a subtle belief that things could be different from how they are? Or even that they should be different?

Now it feels like this is about developing a belief in this being 'perfect' as it is and not possibly being any other way. But thought in the form of memories (from reading/listening to others) says its more about a letting go of beliefs - is it in truly letting go of the belief that things could be different, there is a clear seeing that things simply are as they are and couldn't be any other way?

I've noticed this week there has been a strong sense of 'do-er' (and what you could describe as a pattern/wave of resistance coming up); a person in control who has the ability to make choices and do things well or badly (and infinite shades between these relative judgements). I have a sense that this feeling/belief has been at the core of the suffering experienced.

I saw how I can get pulled into believing I'm no longer present or directly experiencing, because of a particular constellation of sensation.

Sorry to maybe be repeating myself, but am I on the right track to be simply noticing this and letting attention/awareness rest in the sensations of being the do-er (or whatever can be felt directly in that moment)?

[Woodlands]

Sorry this is taking time to become clear for me…

Very much appreciating your time and help, thank you 🙏

[Woodlands]

Today there has been a clearer sense of this being all there is. There being nothing to compare this too, as this is all that’s here! Though there can be moments of seemingly ‘losing this’. Like the mind getting caught in some kind trance where the eternal moment is not this still background but is moving through time. Then seeking and resistance can happen which seem to be particular constellations of sensation? Triggering particular thoughts and beliefs about what this could or should be?

I want to ask how I can remain in the seeing of ‘this’ - but this feels to be a form of seeking and unwillingness to let go - a self-perpetuating paradox?

It’s like a release happens into the now. But this release is done lightly and just happens. Though sometimes it feels it’s preceded by a remembering - remembering which maybe there is something I can ‘do’ to make happen?

[ty0]

Mindfulness practices and reducing distractions will help. Focus on the senses. But yes, trying to constantly remain in clarity is a form of seeking, and can lead to a lot of self-judgment and comparison. When things are not clear and you recognise that they are not clear, does any effort lead to clarity? Is there anything you "do" that causes clarity?

[Woodlands]

When things are not clear and you recognise that they are not clear, does any effort lead to clarity?

It seems to maybe depend. Things have definitely been getting easier and less ‘charged’ - though I’m noticing this seems to go ‘round’ almost like a spiral or a wave where things are easier for a period and then things become harder. Though over time the easier and harder are both loosening and becoming easier - as though there’s less of an energy charge behind it all. Previously, when things were not clear and this was recognised, it could lead to a flurry of thoughts and a tightening - effort in this sense could feel strained and just reinforce the whole tightening, with trying to get ‘somewhere else’ just reinforcing itself.

But now, as things have become a little easier/lighter, there still seems to sometimes be a little effort which can help. Though I’m not sure if it’s your kind of effort. Like a noticing ‘uh I’ve got caught by thought again. Okay let’s see this.’ Sometimes seeing is enough with attention moving into sensation (no or little effort needed). Sometimes the bodily sensation is maybe a bit stronger and there’s still this ‘felt sense’ of identification where a bit more effort seems to be needed. This is where thoughts like ‘what is it like to feel identified with this thought right now?’ Or ‘what does it feel like to be me right now?’ Are sometimes employed which can help bring attention back into direct sensation. Though this might be momentary. Then more effort is felt to be needed to do it over and over. I guess this is where I am periodically ‘getting to’ and previously this would lead to a long period of forgetting about all of this as the effort felt too much, and to not be ‘doing anything’ which looking back would seem a period of being fully identified with thoughts. Now I’m beginning to have deeper shifts at a more energetic/somatic level, I think the faith is maybe deepening and attention is more able to stick with it?

Is there anything you "do" that causes clarity?

I guess this goes back to the it’s not something that is done but more of a letting go of doing anything. And I think maybe that’s where my mind gets pulled when forgetting happens. Remembering that there isn’t anything to do but a letting go into what is seems to really help. But is this ‘remembering’ something that is done?

Thank you 🙏

[ty0]

But is this ‘remembering’ something that is done?

You tell me. Is remembering something you can do?

This is where thoughts like ‘what is it like to feel identified with this thought right now?’ Or ‘what does it feel like to be me right now?’ Are sometimes employed which can help bring attention back into direct sensation.

Let's look at this effort. Are these thoughts employed? Do you employ them? Do you choose which thoughts to employ before they appear? Where do these thought questions come from? Do you create them or are they remembered? If they are remembered, do you remember them or do they appear on their own?

[Woodlands]

I guess not… though it feels like it is something I do.

It’s as though thoughts come up - some can be seen more readily as just appearing, whereas others seem to be accompanied by a sensation that makes them feel in some way generated and ‘owned’ - investigating it seems to be (at least in those moments of investigation) like a tightening in the neck area. This (though maybe coincidence) seems to maybe lead to this being perceived as though it’s being done or being generated by me? Like there’s some force behind there somewhere coming up and out with it. Though thinking about this, it seems quite ridiculous. Yet it doesn’t change this felt sense, at least not yet.

There’s some recognition that thought is just appearing. A deep mystery of where from. When I first was pointed to this realisation, this understanding and way of perceiving seemed somewhat maintained (or more easily remembered) for around a week. It was very freeing and things seemed so clear in those moments of remembering. Then, it’s as though this sense of thoughts being generated and owned came back. I realise this isn’t ‘true’ but there is still this felt sense - like a belief - though one that is perhaps fading…

I wonder if this is reducing in intensity over time as more direct sensing is happening and as more of this type of inquiry happens.

I had an experience earlier of a very strong resistance pattern which was very interesting to watch - I could see how things might usually unfold, but this time there was less buying into the idea that this was something I was ‘doing’ - it seems it is becoming easier to watch without adding to the patterns with more energy ridden thoughts which reinforce particular responses/patterns further - though there are ‘slips’ - these are seemingly more easily noticed.

More easily noticed as remembering happens! And yes, whilst it might feel like I’m doing the remembering - what is remembering? A thought happens which seems to trigger a different way of looking, being, sensing - a shift of attention? But where this thought comes from, I don’t know?


Thank you for your questions ✨🙏🙏🙏 It’s really helpful to have this keeping the looking going and pushing this further…

[ty0]

Spend some time in meditation watching thoughts come up. You'll find that the most recent thoughts always seem like they come from "you". And when you notice a thought and you see that it just appeared, another thought might pop up like "Ah, that thought just appeared, I didn't generate it". But this new thought about the old thought will seem true and seem like it comes from "you". So notice again that the new thought simply appeared.

Continue noticing. Where did this thought come from? The most recent thought is always so slippery. Noticing will become quicker.

Notice that when there's a new thought about an old thought, there may be some kind of mental visualisation of the new thought "here" talking about the old thought "over there". Notice this here-there subject-object dichotomy and notice that the imagined "here" is in experience the same way the imagined "there" is. There is no here and there outside of imagination

[Woodlands]

Whilst I felt I ‘knew’ this at some level, this was really helpful to be reminded of and to have direct instruction to take time to really look at this.

Meditation often doesn’t happen and taking time to sit and focus has been helpful. But with this explicit reminder, noticing became easier.

I wanted to carry on with this as it was going really well and so wanted to take time with it and report back once things got trickier or unclear again.

What seemed most helpful was, not only seeing that all thoughts just arise but being able to tune into the felt sense of thoughts being in some way directed by ‘me’. The feeling of me as the doer of the thought. This felt sense of me was something attention automatically seemed to tune into at first and has seemed really helpful. This has been much like the process I described in my very first post where with every thought, I would look to find the felt sense of the me behind the thought. Though over time this hasn’t been happening as automatically, it seems a lot more practice will be helpful.

I have been looking at ‘where’ thoughts seem to be, looking at the here/there dichotomy you mentioned. At first they seemed to come in ‘on top’ of older thoughts, almost like a rabbit hole the older one fades into. Today, I seem to only be able to ‘see’ the newer thought, the older thought something it feels I have to force into imagination.

So things have felt lighter over the course of the week with this practice you recommended. Thank you!!!

However, I have noticed what could be described as quite a slippery story coming up - where I have begun to buy into the idea that I need to be doing something - like I need to plan or think my way through how to ‘improve’ things or ‘sort my life out’. This seems to make the energy behind thought ramp up (and bodily tension) and maybe a belief comes up that I should be doing something - with the belief that I am in control and should be making better decisions etc.

This is where a belief seems to come up that this ‘stuff’ is just another form of avoidance - avoiding the thing I should be doing and not being fully responsible. It seems linked with those beliefs that there’s a need to feel guilty etc in order to get things done. I feel I’m generally past those as I know I can actively engage with life - including with things I have previously seemed to need ‘guilt’ to do - but I’m noticing this broader storyline is creeping back in. This seems especially the case when things haven’t been as productive as I’d like (eg at work). Or where I’m not doing the things in my life more generally that thought says I should be doing. It’s as though things have become ‘uncontained’ and I have noticed thoughts that say I want a container (structure for life?!)

I’ve been trying to take the approach of not planning or relying on thought to live, in the hope this will flow naturally. Whilst things have generally felt lighter and some things flow, there are still patterns of resistance, days of increased tension, waves of being caught in these stories and a felt sense of ‘stuckness’.

Sometimes noticing the felt sense happens which I think is contributing to the increased lightness that seems to be happening. Other times, this seems more difficult. Or is it just a constellation of sensation that seems to trick the mind into believing it’s not ‘with sensation’ - like some weird slippery story that says things aren’t right, something is wrong and I must do something different in order for things to be back on track? It’s like there’s a holding or a level of tension in the body when this sensing sometimes happens which makes it feel this is happening in the wrong way.

I can see how all of this can make attention veer away and return to old patterns of doing based on trying to improve my life and feel better.

I’ve also noticed there is a subtle fear (barely noticeable) and I may be doing things based on avoiding this fear - such as not planning my day because I fear I won’t stick to the plan and then might be ‘derailed’ by difficult emotion. Though the story I tell myself is that I don’t need to plan as if I can ‘tune into this’ it can all flow naturally. Now there’s confusion as the mind tries to work out what is going on - is this the mind trying to lure me back into believing thought and planning is necessary? Or am I using spirituality to avoid feeling fear?

There’s also a noticing that as things feel lighter and there is less suffering/oscillation of doubt, I am not doing some things that could be seen as helpful (appearing less productive and less successful at life) - another thought which seems to maybe adds to the belief above…

It makes sense that there might be a subtle fear in explaining why this stuckness and potential for derailing seems to be happening. Is there something I could do to explore this more directly?

Today my aim is to let attention really focus on this. I’m continuing to read LU and am spending focused time in meditation noticing where thought comes from, including the newest and the newest over and over.

I can see how planning mode is coming in (and the felt sense of me needing to do something being reinforced) but I’m hoping this staying with it and staying with this will help move through this pattern which might typically otherwise have ended in a period of moving away again…

[Woodlands]

As there’s an apparent movement between seeing (briefly) and not seeing, it seems the looking that feels to be ‘in the wrong way’ I mentioned maybe relates to the looking being from a believed sense of there being a separate me compared to a looking where this belief is maybe less influential? Perhaps this contrast is what gives me the sense that one way isn’t ’right’. And maybe this is just another belief that can get in the way. Maybe remembering that any looking (or more like a noticing of the sensing that is already happening) is ‘right’, however that feels? Even if, (and maybe even especially if?!) this is from a position of perceiving a separate me.

I may be rambling now…

[Woodlands]

Hi Tyler. It feels useful to share that there’s a real sense of stuckness happening. Fleeting moments of seeing this as a story but it’s very much seeming to be identified with. A story of going backwards, being back at square 1. Thoughts can be seen as thoughts. The body is in at least one sense feeling lighter. But none of this seems to ‘make any difference’. It’s as though there’s a real deep seeking happening and a want to get out of it which seems to be reinforcing itself. It’s clear that things as they are don’t feel good enough. Though they don’t feel ‘bad’ either. It can be felt into and things feel fine. It’s not an explicit story of wanting any change per se. It’s more a going back to that wanting to know what to do. Then questioning what to do next. It’s like letting go and letting things happening means not very much happens and maybe this is being questioned.

Am I expecting too much from all of this?

Many of the things that could be done (in response to the question ‘what should I do?’) which come up in thought all seem to be in an effort to make myself feel better in some way. So then there’s this pulling away in a want not to reinforce seeking further. So pulling in different directions, an oscillation of doubt. But without particularly strong feelings. As though they are ‘hiding’ - though I realise this is another story. There’s the question of whether to just sit with all of this in its direct felt sense. Which right now feels the ‘right’ move. But then there’s thoughts which see this as another form of seeking and avoidance - avoiding what should be done and trying to feel better through spirituality. I can see how easy it is to then spend the day spiritually seeking which is just reinforcing this whole thing, seemingly in the ‘wrong’ direction.

Are you able to offer any guidance with this? I know pressures at work are going to be ramped up this week and can see there’s a possibility of getting quite strongly pulled in an unhelpful direction with all of this. Though maybe not…

Sorry I think this is going to be a long journey for me 🫣🫣🫣 I can sense some frustration and fear, though so very subtle and difficult to feel - maybe this is something I need to focus on more directly somehow. I’m just not sure how to without seemingly creating or reinforcing more slippery stories. There seem to be some really deeply entrenched beliefs (seeming to be) blocking this..?!

Thank you in advance for your time and help. Without this forum, I’m sure I’d be going back around the cycles and would have ‘lost my way’ a good while back (yet again!).

[ty0]

Though the story I tell myself is that I don’t need to plan as if I can ‘tune into this’ it can all flow naturally. Now there’s confusion as the mind tries to work out what is going on - is this the mind trying to lure me back into believing thought and planning is necessary? Or am I using spirituality to avoid feeling fear?

Yes, the thought "I don't need a plan" is no more 'correct' than the thought "I need a plan". It's just more (commercially and stereotypically) spiritual and believing it helps one avoid feeling fear. You lived by "I need a plan" and it seems that the solution is to live by the opposite thought, but they're 2 sides of the same coin. Either one that comes up in whatever moment, notice and feel what comes up with them.

It makes sense that there might be a subtle fear in explaining why this stuckness and potential for derailing seems to be happening. Is there something I could do to explore this more directly?

No, you are already doing a lot. Everything you are doing with thought (trying to figure things out etc.) is helping you avoid the uncomfortable emotions/sensations that arise. To "explore this more directly", you don't have to do more, you have to do less. There is no need for any conscious "exploration", most of what you consciously do/think is distraction from what arises. When your thoughts deem there is a problem, instead of spiralling into more thought about how to fix this problem and how to explore the problem more directly (which is all distraction from how the perceived problem makes you feel), try facing the perceived problem and just asking yourself how it makes you feel. Then see what's there.

However, I have noticed what could be described as quite a slippery story coming up - where I have begun to buy into the idea that I need to be doing something - like I need to plan or think my way through how to ‘improve’ things or ‘sort my life out’. This seems to make the energy behind thought ramp up (and bodily tension) and maybe a belief comes up that I should be doing something - with the belief that I am in control and should be making better decisions etc.

This is where a belief seems to come up that this ‘stuff’ is just another form of avoidance - avoiding the thing I should be doing and not being fully responsible. It seems linked with those beliefs that there’s a need to feel guilty etc in order to get things done. I feel I’m generally past those as I know I can actively engage with life - including with things I have previously seemed to need ‘guilt’ to do - but I’m noticing this broader storyline is creeping back in. This seems especially the case when things haven’t been as productive as I’d like (eg at work). Or where I’m not doing the things in my life more generally that thought says I should be doing. It’s as though things have become ‘uncontained’ and I have noticed thoughts that say I want a container (structure for life?!)

I’ve been trying to take the approach of not planning or relying on thought to live, in the hope this will flow naturally. Whilst things have generally felt lighter and some things flow, there are still patterns of resistance, days of increased tension, waves of being caught in these stories and a felt sense of ‘stuckness’.

Sometimes noticing the felt sense happens which I think is contributing to the increased lightness that seems to be happening. Other times, this seems more difficult. Or is it just a constellation of sensation that seems to trick the mind into believing it’s not ‘with sensation’ - like some weird slippery story that says things aren’t right, something is wrong and I must do something different in order for things to be back on track? It’s like there’s a holding or a level of tension in the body when this sensing sometimes happens which makes it feel this is happening in the wrong way.

I can see how all of this can make attention veer away and return to old patterns of doing based on trying to improve my life and feel better.

I’ve also noticed there is a subtle fear (barely noticeable) and I may be doing things based on avoiding this fear - such as not planning my day because I fear I won’t stick to the plan and then might be ‘derailed’ by difficult emotion. Though the story I tell myself is that I don’t need to plan as if I can ‘tune into this’ it can all flow naturally. Now there’s confusion as the mind tries to work out what is going on - is this the mind trying to lure me back into believing thought and planning is necessary? Or am I using spirituality to avoid feeling fear?

There’s also a noticing that as things feel lighter and there is less suffering/oscillation of doubt, I am not doing some things that could be seen as helpful (appearing less productive and less successful at life) - another thought which seems to maybe adds to the belief above…

It makes sense that there might be a subtle fear in explaining why this stuckness and potential for derailing seems to be happening. Is there something I could do to explore this more directly?

This whole ramble could have been summarised into "Things seem to be getting more pleasant but are not yet exactly the way I expect and want them to be. I want things to be more like how I want quicker, what can I do so that they stop failing to meet my expectations?" Not trying to poke fun at you hahahah.

As there’s an apparent movement between seeing (briefly) and not seeing, it seems the looking that feels to be ‘in the wrong way’ I mentioned maybe relates to the looking being from a believed sense of there being a separate me compared to a looking where this belief is maybe less influential? Perhaps this contrast is what gives me the sense that one way isn’t ’right’. And maybe this is just another belief that can get in the way. Maybe remembering that any looking (or more like a noticing of the sensing that is already happening) is ‘right’, however that feels? Even if, (and maybe even especially if?!) this is from a position of perceiving a separate me.

No. When you believe something is 'wrong', you feel bad. You deem this a problem, soo the solution you've come up with is to instead tell yourself that everything is 'right', so that you don't have to feel bad. I'm not going to offer a solution because I don't see a problem.

Hi Tyler. It feels useful to share that there’s a real sense of stuckness happening. Fleeting moments of seeing this as a story but it’s very much seeming to be identified with. A story of going backwards, being back at square 1. Thoughts can be seen as thoughts. The body is in at least one sense feeling lighter. But none of this seems to ‘make any difference’. It’s as though there’s a real deep seeking happening and a want to get out of it which seems to be reinforcing itself. It’s clear that things as they are don’t feel good enough. Though they don’t feel ‘bad’ either. It can be felt into and things feel fine. It’s not an explicit story of wanting any change per se. It’s more a going back to that wanting to know what to do. Then questioning what to do next. It’s like letting go and letting things happening means not very much happens and maybe this is being questioned.

Am I expecting too much from all of this?

Any expectation is too much expectation, though this doesn't mean that expectations are 'wrong' and you need to try and get rid of them.

Many of the things that could be done (in response to the question ‘what should I do?’) which come up in thought all seem to be in an effort to make myself feel better in some way. So then there’s this pulling away in a want not to reinforce seeking further. So pulling in different directions, an oscillation of doubt. But without particularly strong feelings. As though they are ‘hiding’ - though I realise this is another story. There’s the question of whether to just sit with all of this in its direct felt sense. Which right now feels the ‘right’ move. But then there’s thoughts which see this as another form of seeking and avoidance - avoiding what should be done and trying to feel better through spirituality. I can see how easy it is to then spend the day spiritually seeking which is just reinforcing this whole thing, seemingly in the ‘wrong’ direction.

Are you able to offer any guidance with this? I know pressures at work are going to be ramped up this week and can see there’s a possibility of getting quite strongly pulled in an unhelpful direction with all of this. Though maybe not…

What's the longest you've been able to sit with what is and not try to make yourself feel better? Have you ever been able to sit with what is without the background intention of using "sitting with what is" to make yourself feel better? Have you ever meditated without the ulterior motive of "making yourself feel better"? If not, I'm afraid you may have never meditated in the first place. Do you see that as long as you're trying, you're suffering?

Don't be in a rush to analyse my writing and formulate a plan of action to then execute. Things are ramping up at work, expect uncomfortable sensations.

[Woodlands]

What's the longest you've been able to sit with what is and not try to make yourself feel better? Have you ever been able to sit with what is without the background intention of using "sitting with what is" to make yourself feel better? Have you ever meditated without the ulterior motive of "making yourself feel better"? If not, I'm afraid you may have never meditated in the first place. Do you see that as long as you're trying, you're suffering?

I'm not sure if you're looking for an actual answer to this.

This seems to be the crux of the paradox right? The agenda that creeps in with the 'spiritual journey' which, when noticed, takes it in a new direction of looking to break the paradox - perhaps deepening the paradox further...

The idea that I can sit without the background intention of using "sitting with what is" to make myself feel better only seems to add a layer of resistance to resistance - a belief that things as they are, not being 'right', should this background intention show up.

The question 'Do you see that as long as you're trying, you're suffering?' seems to invoke the idea that there’s this person here who can can stop trying and if I could only do this, suffering would end.

Reading this last post, things really seemed to ramp up - feelings and thoughts, being caught in a story of resistance which escalated and seemed to reinforce itself in a looping cycle. It seems a belief in there being a me in control - choosing to try and choosing to want to feel better - might have been reinforced and then when unable to not try and unable to not want to feel better, feelings and thoughts were fuelled in their intensity. Not wanting things to be as they are happened at times very intensely and nothing could be done about it.

It took a while for me to learn to not resist resistance. That this just happens and all that can be done is to see this for what it is, not resisting this more which just seems to fuel the fire. But this last post seemed to lead my mind to ‘reset’ back into this resisting resistance (or body as this was more at deeper felt level than in conscious thought as this learning remained seemingly ‘known’) - hearing that I should not be trying, I should not be wanting to feel better…

Looking into the strong feelings surfaced, I came to a realisation that there might be deep seated sense of - or fear of - not being good enough. There seemed to be a message implicitly received that what was being done was not ‘right’ (i.e. wrong). Doubt about the approach which I was looking to check out. It became much harder for attention to settle in sensations as thoughts ramped up and the intensity behind them. The not good enough story expanding to include ‘even this spiritual stuff’. Again, this feels to be at a deeper, more bodily level than in conscious thought where intellectually this can be seen as a story (and quite a silly one at that).

All I thought was possible was to see trying happening (or wanting things to be different, wanting to feel better etc.) and to not add to this? Sensing into what is already here, including any trying etc. and letting that be as it is without trying to change it...

When your thoughts deem there is a problem, instead of spiralling into more thought about how to fix this problem and how to explore the problem more directly (which is all distraction from how the perceived problem makes you feel), try facing the perceived problem and just asking yourself how it makes you feel. Then see what's there.

I think this is what I have been trying to do. It’s just that attention isn’t easily settling and often returns to thought. I assume this is another way of saying to sense into what is already here and just keeping returning to this? Or are you saying to do this in a different way? (I realise my use of words is restricting, so point back to earlier conversations of this being more of a not doing, a letting go into the sensing that is already happening).

I've looked back to my older posts and see this is very much my recurring sticking point... I'm trying to be brutally honest in recognising and sharing my experiencing of these paradoxes - I see these as real sticking points which seem to reinforce 'stuckness' which I'm hoping for help to find a way 'through'. Seeing their paradoxical nature doesn't seem to be enough to unhook my mind from their spell when these periods happen. If anything, seeing them can increase frustration.

I've found an earlier post which feels particularly relevant again. Perhaps now, with a view that a feeling or fear of 'not being good enough' perhaps underlies much of all this (not fully believed at an intellectual level but sensing this as a deeper, entrenched feeling that needs/wants to somehow be fully felt):

“Ultimately, there seems to be relentless doubt as to ‘what to do’. Yes, in a sense it always comes down to doing the ‘right’ thing. But at an intellectual level, I know there is no ‘right way’. But it seems I have possibly developed a belief that there is a spiritually ‘right’ way - a way that feels right and is without doubt. Where I can just flow in a way that feels natural. This is what I’m looking for - and yes, it seems reasonable to say I am worried I’ll never get this.”

Now I'm wondering if this expectation/want/hope might be unreasonable, silly even, and getting in the way.

This feeling of doubt/not knowing/wanting to know what to do/not being enough/wanting to be enough is something I keep noticing coming up and sense into. Attention keeps being pulled to thought and when remembering happens, it comes back into sensation.

There’s a strong want to see things clearly, please help!

[ty0]

Reading this last post, things really seemed to ramp up - feelings and thoughts, being caught in a story of resistance which escalated and seemed to reinforce itself in a looping cycle. It seems a belief in there being a me in control - choosing to try and choosing to want to feel better - might have been reinforced and then when unable to not try and unable to not want to feel better, feelings and thoughts were fuelled in their intensity. Not wanting things to be as they are happened at times very intensely and nothing could be done about it.

It took a while for me to learn to not resist resistance. That this just happens and all that can be done is to see this for what it is, not resisting this more which just seems to fuel the fire. But this last post seemed to lead my mind to ‘reset’ back into this resisting resistance (or body as this was more at deeper felt level than in conscious thought as this learning remained seemingly ‘known’) - hearing that I should not be trying, I should not be wanting to feel better…

I don't mean that you shouldn't be trying. If there's trying, you can't not try, and it's best just not to add to the resistance. If there were a you in control choosing to try and choosing to want to feel better, wouldn't you be able to choose to not try and not want to feel better?

Looking into the strong feelings surfaced, I came to a realisation that there might be deep seated sense of - or fear of - not being good enough. There seemed to be a message implicitly received that what was being done was not ‘right’ (i.e. wrong). Doubt about the approach which I was looking to check out. It became much harder for attention to settle in sensations as thoughts ramped up and the intensity behind them. The not good enough story expanding to include ‘even this spiritual stuff’. Again, this feels to be at a deeper, more bodily level than in conscious thought where intellectually this can be seen as a story (and quite a silly one at that).

Find what triggers these deep feelings to arise and get closer to the feelings. Trigger them on purpose, make them stronger, look at what's there if you can.

“Ultimately, there seems to be relentless doubt as to ‘what to do’. Yes, in a sense it always comes down to doing the ‘right’ thing. But at an intellectual level, I know there is no ‘right way’. But it seems I have possibly developed a belief that there is a spiritually ‘right’ way - a way that feels right and is without doubt. Where I can just flow in a way that feels natural. This is what I’m looking for - and yes, it seems reasonable to say I am worried I’ll never get this.”

Now I'm wondering if this expectation/want/hope might be unreasonable, silly even, and getting in the way.

There will never be a way that feels right and is without doubt. Doubt occurs when there's the belief that some things are right and some things are wrong. When you feel that what you're doing is "right", you're as a result believing that there's a possibility of it being wrong. The paradox is that because you're looking for a way that feels natural, every way feels unnatural to some extent. There's no issue with not knowing, suffering only arises when you assume there's something to know, there's a right way, and the desire to know the right way arises. This suffering can't be absolved by figuring out the "right way" because, by trying to figure that out, you're already assuming right/wrong. There's nothing I know that you don't know. Right and wrong need each other to exist. Certainty and doubt need each other to exist. Natural and unnatural need each other to exist. You seek rightness, certainty, and naturalness. I have none of those.

After reading the last paragraph, you may have the thought "So what do I do then? How do I 'get' not seeking rightness, certainty, and naturalness? What's the right way to do that? Give me some instructions please!" It is exactly this thought that you must look at. Where did that thought come from? Did that thought come from you? How does that thought make you feel? What assumptions are under this thought?