Halfway There;-)

[Lennie]

Yeah, confusion happens when there are a lot of thoughts and it feels like you're trying to figure something out. But if you just stop and ask what you're trying to figure out, it all stops making sense sometimes.

Yes I’ve noticed. It also feels like i’m still trying to figure this out.
It’s like my whole world is changing and also excitement, I can’t get enough from all this, but eventually it get’s confusing. Direct looking is the way where I can’t find the I that is confusing. Also confusing dissapears

Like, what are all these thoughts even about? What are they referring to? Do the thoughts talk about anything other than other thoughts?

Yeah kinda. It’s the attention and value I give to them, then it just seems that there’s more separateness. I also noticed I talk a lot to myself, I see words and myself talking..

Yesterday I had this inner conflict with me getting of the couch picking up a chocolate bar. It really felt like I had a choice of eating it..Of course I ate it:-) Didn’t felt any guilt after that, where I normal did.

Greets Léon

[ty0]

Hahahahah. It's amazing that some (many) people could suffer over a chocolate bar. Quite absurd to think about. Spend some time asking yourself "What's here?" and just look. There's really nothing to figure out. Even "figuring something out" is a learned concept. Even "learning" is a learned concept. "Are the thoughts about what's here?" "No, the thoughts are also what's here." Trace concepts all the way back.

What's here?

[Lennie]

Hi Tyler!

What's here?

There was a lot of frustration with that ''Whats here'' question. Even woke up at night a few times trying to figure it out. Didn't even knew what a seperate self was anymore..So yesterday I realized this isn't gonna work and I just have to LOOK, like you said. I'm not really sure if that's what you meant by it it but here's what happened in my experience;

Whenever the thought "what's in here?" arises within me, everything becomes heightened. Vision is perceived differently, like some kind of available space. There's awareness of the contact with the ground or other sensations. And then there's sound, which was heard but not immediately judged. (after 5 seconds it was gone haha)

After doing this about 15 times yesterday, I noticed it was the same everywhere. Of course, each sensation, sound, or space was different, but also the same in a way. It was amusing to observe that when a thought emerged over it—like labeling an object—I realized that it, too, belonged to the present moment.

Not sure if this was what you meant...

Have a good day.
Léon

[ty0]

Yes. Spend more time looking. Of course it's all the same. Because there's only 1 of it. The sound, sensations, and sights now are not separate from each other. Nor are they separate from thought. Nor are they separate from the memories (thoughts) of sounds, sensations, and sights from other times.

We learn to distinguish and differentiate to survive. But is anything actually separate before we define them?

[Lennie]

Nor are they separate from the memories (thoughts) of sounds, sensations, and sights from other times.

It's weird you know..It's right before you, yet you can spend a life seeing it in a other way. It's just the identification that probably happened in an early age.

No, the thoughts are also what's here.

This really was a strong one that helped me not seeing it only intellectual.

Since I started looking more, the mind becomes more quiet. I do not want to understand it all anymore so bad like the past few weeks. I like this looking. The ''whats here'' question is popping up a lot of times during the day, quite fun.

We learn to distinguish and differentiate to survive. But is anything actually separate before we define them?

No, the mind is just labeling and chattering the experience.

[ty0]

This most recent post may be relevant to you

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9253&p=402404#p402404

[Lennie]

The 'awakening' is a process. I especially noticed this when I first started asking questions here—there were still some layers of fear, and I could clearly see that I thought there was still something extra to gain. Slowly but surely, this process is coming to an end. There was nothing behind those layers and I defined being a seeker as this moment where everything appears as, is not good enough.
I now notice how quickly I can switch between what is truly real here and what is completely fabricated. Yet it’s both here.
Life is opening up for intuition instead of resistance. This change must be the proverbial gate—I can’t see it any other way at the moment.

What I mainly did beforehand was dangle that last sentence in front of myself like a carrot. Of course, I couldn’t answer that question; it feels like an endless loop, which then results in frustration, haha.
I’m grateful for a forum like this. It’s easy to get tangled up in Instagram and YouTube algorithms that swing you back and forth.

But then it got confusing because it's difficult to define "following the scent" VS "curiosity" VS "seeking".

Again completely arbitrary. I remember that you said this;

What's the difference between viewing it as "It's something that the 'I' is hoping for to happen" and viewing it as "kapsalon"?

Haha this is just the same.

It's just fascinating for me really. Like music production, I 'threat' this whole process/subject the same. The things that appear important to me in life are the ones that get my full attention. Yet it's different now. It's more that I wanne give something back instead of gaining myself, but we'll see about that.

Greets Léon

[ty0]

Yep, we'll see :)

[Lennie]

It feels like you’re my teacher and I took my grade without getting an examination hahaha.
I forgot to tell you yesterday that I got some great pointers which I got from a NL archive.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=8301&start=30

I just need a bit of time with these practises. Today is horrible, don't even know what a seperate self is anymore. It's like I have to remind myself constantly while doing my day to day shit..

Hopefully speak soon.

[ty0]

I just need a bit of time with these practises. Today is horrible, don't even know what a seperate self is anymore. It's like I have to remind myself constantly while doing my day to day shit..

Looks like you're buying into some narrative like
'I'm at xyz stage on the path. Things should be like THIS, because I'm this advanced on the path now. I should know these things, and I should act this way. Oh fuck, this thought/external situation affects me, so am I actually not that advanced on the path? I don't know what xyz is, so am I actually not "awake"? This is so horrible, I'm doing so badly, I've lost progress, oh no.'
or some kind of bullshit like that hahahah.

What are you reminding yourself of? There isn't anything you have to remind yourself of. You might be taking some kind of spiritual knowledge as truth when it's just another concept you've learnt.

[Lennie]

What are you reminding yourself of? There isn't anything you have to remind yourself of. You might be taking some kind of spiritual knowledge as truth when it's just another concept you've learnt.

You know what, you're right. I'm doubting a lot right now. Like, what's the difference between realizing something and just pure knowing. How do I distinguish between those two? It's all a thought/concept/idea anyway. For example; I know when cutting back some calories there will be a weightloss happening. There's no seperate 'doer' of those things, but there's a knowing of that action-reaction. I also realize it's a concept based on previous actions. I'm not really in controle of those processes really..Same applies to other health related stuff. Like there's a knowing that applying all those things which apparently appear in me, results in having control over feelings, thoughts etc. What is chosing to do all that then? And there's also a thought right now that i'm typing all this bullshit to understand it. Haha.

Also, since we have to be completely honest here. I'm doubting myself because I didn't got the final questions from you. It just felt like I have to go through it all again. I'll try to let go of that now.

[ty0]

You don't know anything, and neither do I. Distinguishing is just artificially creating boundaries where there weren't any in the first place. Thoughts arise, feelings arise, decisions arise, and you ask what is choosing to do all that? But this question of "what is choosing to do all that?" is just something else arising. Imagining that there's a subject doing all this is just something else arising. When a pen drops to the ground, you don't ask "what chose to make the pen drop to the ground?", do you?

Also, since we have to be completely honest here. I'm doubting myself because I didn't got the final questions from you. It just felt like I have to go through it all again. I'll try to let go of that now.

There's definitely some trying to define where YOU are on the path. Some thoughts like "I should be awake by now".

[Lennie]

So i'm basically a tv screen where all kind of programs or whatever just appear on/in. Without all the programs it's just a screen, nothing..

[Lennie]

When I was a little kid in school and learned "What is 3+3?" there was probably a thought of "I don't know." Then I learned that 3+3 equals 6. So now 'answers' appear just because I assumed them as truth. So it might as well be 3+3= 'I don't know.'
Haha sorry for the stupid anology, but am I understand you correctly now?

I mean...I kinda understand now that there's nothing to figure out here.

[ty0]

Yes. Everything that you "know", you learned. Everything you "figure out" is a new concept for you to learn. So then, what are you trying to do?

So i'm basically a tv screen where all kind of programs or whatever just appear on/in. Without all the programs it's just a screen, nothing..

Why? Why is there a screen separate from what appears? Do you see any screen appearing?