The Gate

Hi Ghost!

Yup. That last bit. Good stuff.
However…

Gh:
“I think you’re still taking inclusivity as being lost in thought or, as you put it, ‘mindbleeping.’ My point was simply that thinking itself—including mislabeling—is also A/D E. For example, ‘see red, think green’ and ‘see green, think green’ are both part of what’s here now in direct experience….The way I see it, thinking is just as compatible with recognizing emptiness as anything else. Everything—even ‘wrong’ things like mislabeling or lying—arises as part of emptiness, right? Clarity is the natural expression, but all things are seen as they are.”


As I mentioned, you are a champ at recognizing Actual / Direct Experience. It is not the “separate” self / thinking that does that.


“Recognition” in this sense is completely different from what thinking does: it is busy “making points” and doing things like saying and arguing for its existence as a “separate” entity that says things like “I think that” and “The way I see it.” This is not Actual / Direct experience. Thinking cannot do Direct Experiencing.


Awareness of thoughts arising as thoughts (not their content) is Actual / Direct Experience.


Saying that thinking “see red, think green” and “see green, think green” is labelling, interpretive, conceptual thinking, ie, the “illusion” asserting its bleeping “self” yet again. It is being “lost in thought”.


In your first post where you answered all the preliminary questions, you said this:


Gh- “I seek guidance to realize no-self with the same naturalness as noticing the breath.”


Have you seen no-self here?


Look now: is there a separate self anywhere that you can find in direct experience?


What do you see?

Love,


Jeff


I slept and dreamed that life was happiness.
I woke, and found that life was service.
I served, and found in service, happiness is found.

- Rabindranath Tagore

Jeff! How fun and important this is.

As I mentioned, you are a champ at recognizing Actual / Direct Experience. It is not the “separate” self / thinking that does that.

I agree. The "separate" self/thinking you mention IS A/D E. It does not recognize experience, it is part of it.

Awareness of thoughts arising as thoughts (not their content) is Actual / Direct Experience.

The content, too, is A/D E - no? Otherwise a dream is not A/D E. The sights we see and sounds we hear in a dream aren't "real" in the conceptual sense... but aren't they just as real as anything else experientially?

Have you seen no-self here?

Yes. On many occasions I've looked only to find nothing. It could be nowhere but here.

Look now: is there a separate self anywhere that you can find in direct experience?

No. Any indications of separation appear in a prior condition of non-separation.

What do you see?

Various patterns of sense data percolating in a dimensionless field. Sounds and sensations are gone the moment I try to capture them. I can't catch clouds in a butterfly net. Vision is a shimmering field, a hologram instead of a head. It is like a rainbow. Thoughts are churning out of some sort of invisible printer, attempting to explain something that cannot be understood. Sometimes these thoughts swirl convincingly and collapse expansion into division. None of it is being "done by". I couldn't even convincingly say it is being "done to". It is just being done. It just is. I don't know why I say the words I do, and if I try to look they just vanish again. It is like trying to watch the wind.

Warmly,
Ghost

Hi Ghost!

As usual, you are quite adept at reporting the results of your “Looking” and “Seeing” to questions like the last 3 asked of you in my previous post:

Have you seen no-self here?

“Yes. On many occasions I've looked only to find nothing. It could be nowhere but here.”

Look now: is there a separate self anywhere that you can find in direct experience?

“No. Any indications of separation appear in a prior condition of non-separation.”

What do you see?

“Various patterns of sense data percolating in a dimensionless field. Sounds and sensations are gone the moment I try to capture them. I can't catch clouds in a butterfly net. Vision is a shimmering field, a hologram instead of a head. It is like a rainbow. Thoughts are churning out of some sort of invisible printer, attempting to explain something that cannot be understood. Sometimes these thoughts swirl convincingly and collapse expansion into division. None of it is being "done by". I couldn't even convincingly say it is being "done to". It is just being done. It just is. I don't know why I say the words I do, and if I try to look they just vanish again. It is like trying to watch the wind.”

Lovely, beautiful. Bingo. These clear descriptions of Direct Experience, along with some of your previous ones, are indeed what you came here to see and receive.

However, the territory becomes much less clear in some of your statements, like when you responded to my saying,

J -> As I mentioned, you are a champ at recognizing Actual / Direct Experience. It is not the “separate” self / thinking that does that. Awareness of thoughts arising as thoughts (not their content) is Actual / Direct Experience.

You said,

G-> “I agree. The "separate" self/thinking you mention IS A/D E. It does not recognize experience, it is part of it.”
and

and

“The content, too, is A/D E - no? Otherwise a dream is not A/D E. The sights we see and sounds we hear in a dream aren't "real" in the conceptual sense... but aren't they just as real as anything else experientially?”

Please clarify. How is “...‘separate’ self/thinking” Actual / Direct Experience, and what does “conceptual sense” mean to you in this context? Frankly, I don’t really understand what you are talking about, so let’s get on the same page.

Love,

Jeff

I slept and dreamed that life was happiness.
I woke, and found that life was service.
I served, and found in service, happiness is found.

- Rabindranath Tagore

Hey Jeff,

Please clarify. How is “...‘separate’ self/thinking” Actual / Direct Experience, and what does “conceptual sense” mean to you in this context? Frankly, I don’t really understand what you are talking about, so let’s get on the same page.

Sure, apologies for any lack of clarity in my writing!

I’m not suggesting that the content of thoughts—the “story” of a separate self—is inherently true. Rather, I’m pointing to the fact that the arising of the thought itself, as an event in experience, is part of A/D E. It is seen, like all other phenomena. For example, the content of the thought ‘I am a separate self’ is not true in any ultimate sense, but the appearance of that thought (and any attendant thought/sense data) is undeniably happening as part of the field of experience.

That is to say, the ‘separate self’ couldn’t be apart from or outside of direct experience because nothing could. It is made of direct experience despite seeming to occlude it.

Similarly, when I say ‘the content, too, is A/D E,’ I mean that the images, sounds, and sensations in a dream—though conceptually understood as ‘unreal’ upon waking—are just as valid experientially as anything else we encounter. They cannot be excluded from A/D E because they arise within/as experience itself.

The significance of this is in the implication. If everything is simply arising in awareness, ‘I am a separate self’ is too. Perhaps calling it something different, like ‘experience’ instead of A/D E, is the crux of the issue here? My point is simply that everything is experience.

When I use the term ‘conceptual sense,’ I mean the framework or narrative that thought overlays on direct experience. For example, the dream’s images might not correlate with ‘real-world’ phenomena, but experientially, the dream happens within awareness just like the sights and sounds we encounter in waking life. The ‘unreality’ of the dream is a conceptual distinction, not an experiential one.

Hi Ghost, thanks for your post and your clear explanations. No apologies necessary, you knew what you meant.

I don’t think there’s very much more here for you to do.

We can do the “final” “Checkpoint” questions soon, or you can have some more pointers (they are lots of fun), but other than that perhaps it would be helpful to address some of your first statements:

“I want to recognize reality on demand…glimpses have been haphazard….To deepen and stabilize this recognition feels essential to freedom, but it cannot be stabilized if it can’t be accessed. How can I meditate when it feels like there’s a meditator?...I seek…to realize no-self with the same naturalness as noticing the breath.”

“Seeking”, hoping for, “wanting”, “demanding” (or “grasping”) for (continuous) “glimpses” or “stabilization” for that matter is all thinking on behalf of a “self” that's looking to improve things.

Maybe all that will be how life looks someday, but for the moment all that is necessary to see what is true and what is not, is to LOOK.

You've described seeing “no-self” quite well already.

If what you saw when you looked wasn't there before, take a look again. I don't think you'll find that it's changed much since then. The Santa Clause analogy is very useful. Once we know there isn't one as we've previously believed (illusion doesn't mean there's nothing there, just that what appears to be there isn't as it seems) the spell is broken.

To another couple of your comments…

I may or may not be “stern and incisive”, but I don’t see any glaring “blind spots”, except that at some point you thought things should somehow be different from the way they are right now. The only real problem with that is if you believe in your thinking.

It also sounds a bit like you wanted to have some kind of someone poking you every two seconds to help you be present. You could certainly hit yourself with a stick at regular intervals to make sure you're “awake”, or you could just relax, be curious about, and enjoy what’s here..

“I know…what I truly am (or am not), but I can’t seem to experience it on demand…I can’t find my way home.”

“No self” isn’t an experience. It is truth. Experience isn’t who or what we are. It is just what is happening.

The “meditation” and “meditator” dilemma is also pretty easily handled.

Where is the meditator? What is it made of? I think you already have all the requisite chops to fix all that. Take a look. I don't think you'll find anyone there. Maybe just a ghost…

;>)

You are already home, Ghost, and this is what it looks, feels, sounds, smells, tastes...appears to you to be like right now.

Welcome!

When “glimpses” arise, enjoy them.

When “stability” emerges, you'll be the first to know.

Anyway, where else could you be than here…now?

Look and see. You already know.

Love,

Jeff


I slept and dreamed that life was happiness.
I woke, and found that life was service.
I served, and found in service, happiness is found.

- Rabindranath Tagore

Hey Jeff,

“Seeking”, hoping for, “wanting”, “demanding” (or “grasping”) for (continuous) “glimpses” or “stabilization” for that matter is all thinking on behalf of a “self” that's looking to improve things.

Maybe all that will be how life looks someday, but for the moment all that is necessary to see what is true and what is not, is to LOOK.

Yes, I see that. Thank you. These too—seeking, hoping, etc.—are subject to the same "LOOKING". I just finished a short meditation having been given the prompt "see why you're doing this; what are you hoping for?", quite apropos. The most beautiful thing happened: when I brought awareness to the hopes I didn't explicitly realize I had, they relaxed.

I may or may not be “stern and incisive”, but I don’t see any glaring “blind spots”, except that at some point you thought things should somehow be different from the way they are right now. The only real problem with that is if you believe in your thinking.

You've been just right, Jeff! That does a good job at capturing the snag.

You could certainly hit yourself with a stick at regular intervals to make sure you're “awake”, or you could just relax, be curious about, and enjoy what’s here..

:)

You are already home, Ghost, and this is what it looks, feels, sounds, smells, tastes...appears to you to be like right now.

Welcome!

When “glimpses” arise, enjoy them.

When “stability” emerges, you'll be the first to know.

Anyway, where else could you be than here…now?

Look and see. You already know.

Turning in circles in my living room saying "I can't find my way home". I flew across the globe and never went anywhere. You've been a good medium, talking to this Ghost.

With Gratitude,
Ghost

Hi Ghost. Thank you. I, too, am Grateful.

These are the “Checkpoint” questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Seven part question:

• a. Describe decision & give examples from experience.
  
  b. Describe intention & give examples from experience.
  
  c. Describe free will & give examples from experience.
  
  d. Describe choice & give examples from experience.
  
  e. Describe control & give examples from experience.
  
  f. What makes things happen? How does it work?
  
  g. What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love,

J



I slept and dreamed that life was happiness.
I woke, and found that life was service.
I served, and found in service, happiness is found.

- Rabindranath Tagore

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Nowhere to be found. I don't think I even know how that would be possible, as awareness seems to necessitate the experience of no-self. There couldn't have ever been a separate entity.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is the pattern of experience that lends itself to believing that there is an independent actor moving through an external universe. In actuality, there is a boundless, dimensionless awareness in which the various signatures of both this 'separate self' and 'external universe' populate. However, these signatures themselves are gossamer and fleeting. The non-separate Self is the unmoving formless domain in which and as which all expressions happen. The expressions are not "passing through"—as that would imply there is something outside of this domain, awareness—but appear and fall away as awareness. This illusion is essentially a contraction of awareness, made of awareness, that seems to obscure the grand openness of awareness from itself.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels strange, mysterious, true, beautiful, terrifying, and nauseating. I think it has become clear that anything is an inroad to this realization, because everything is empty and interconnected. As I said at the start, it Is clear there is more to do. It is a paradox too, as in realization there is nothing "to do". Of course pragmatically I must continue to clarify and stabilize this realization. To live more and more deeply from this truth.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

As I'd mentioned at the start, I'd looked many times. Different moments have unveiled the maw of eternity to different extents. I think the more important thing is that this has encouraged me to not need grand experience (though that need certainly isn't fully uprooted altogether).

5) Seven part question:

a. Describe decision & give examples from experience.

b. Describe intention & give examples from experience.

c. Describe free will & give examples from experience.

d. Describe choice & give examples from experience.

e. Describe control & give examples from experience.

f. What makes things happen? How does it work?

g. What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

a. When I 'decided' to start typing this answer, it just happened. I watched as impulse matured and fingers began moving. It seems mechanically the same as 'hearing'. We don't pretend to be the author of sounds, yet we believe we 'make' decisions. Decisions cascade through/as us, the same way a sound does.

b. If I'm understanding correctly, intention seems to be what happens before decision. An intention to do something arrises before the action of doing it. Of course this too, the intention, emerges from nothingness. I can say I intend to continue answering these questions, but that intention wasn't produced.

c. I don't think I can, free will doesn't really make sense. Who is free or not? The one who would be free is the one that is an illusion. The Self of liberation doesn't will anything. In fact, if you investigate the origin of these arisings and find that you cannot find one as you're bound to, all 7 parts of this question are pointing at the same thing.

d. I'm tempted to say "see c", but I'll continue. Choice is the illusion of selection when the illusory self is faced with options. For example, it appeared that I had a choice to just say "see c" for my answer for this question, but ultimately did not. Why did it happen that more was written? I could tell a clever story about incentives and politeness, but really all of that just happens too.

e. Control is what illusory self attempts to implement on what is imagined to be separate phenomena. "I want to control my breath", "I want to control the weather", "I want to control people's opinions of me". Do boulders control a river? Does the wind control a leaf? Annoyance arose with this question. I didn't control that, that didn't control me. Neither has abiding nature.

f. Don't know, don't know.

g. I don't really know what this means, either. Who am I? What is "responsible"? From 'The View', there is nobody and no responsibility. I'm reluctant to endorse that in practice, though. I think it is easy to dismiss morality from the perspective of nonduality, and I'm not eager to board that train. So... "I" doesn't exist and couldn't be responsible for anything, AND I'm responsible for practicing, clarifying, and expressing wisdom/clarity/compassion. I'm a node in a causal net, responsible for the reverberations of my actions into said net... I'm the formless domain in which the concept of a net arises.

6) Anything to add?
Thank you, Jeff. Awareness meets itself with love.

I wrote this for you:

~~

Two curls of smoke
Puffed from God's parted lips
Met in color upon a screen

"I think I exist", said one
"You don't", replied the other

God gazed at the cloud
and laughed a booming laugh
that echoed through the smoke

Hearing this,
One smoke asked the other
"Why'd you do that?"
"Don't know"

~~

Dear Ghost:

Wonderful, all, and thank you, I’m very, very touched by your gift.

Before I submit your answers to the other guides here who may have questions (it’s our practice to do so at this stage), could you reply to a part of the second “checkpoint” question that you didn’t comment on?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It’s the “...when it starts and how it works…” part.

Awareness/Love indeed.


Jeff (aka Smokey) ;>)

I slept and dreamed that life was happiness.
I woke, and found that life was service.
I served, and found in service, happiness is found.

- Rabindranath Tagore

Hi Jeff,

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It’s the “...when it starts and how it works…” part.

Regarding "when it starts", it starts whenever the 'pattern of experience that lends itself to believing that there is an independent actor moving through an external universe' arises. That is, the thought of being at the center or edge. But really, it never actually starts. You can't stop a mirror from reflecting by using reflections—what appears to obscure the truth arises within it.

Regarding 'how it works', I'll borrow from my earlier writing: "the ‘separate self’ couldn’t be apart from or outside of direct experience because nothing could. It is made of direct experience despite seeming to occlude it." Thought says "I am here, there are various things there", but even this thought arises in the prior condition of openness.

~Ghost

Thanks for your work, Ghost.

This is perhaps one of the most difficult things to do here: we realize freedom (“Liberation”) and then are asked to describe how we and others initially become imprisoned. For me it requires the sophistication of being able to use the mind to “zoom in” to the “relative” level of existence while giggling a bit because we know that in an absolute sense what we are saying isn’t true. From that perspective nobody should ever say anything because words themselves are lies, so “relative” functioning is an important skill (relatively speaking). I hope this communicates? Assuming you still remember how to speak that way, perhaps you could answer the question from the perspective of someone that hasn’t seen or doesn’t recognize truth in the way you do?

J

When I was a child, I was taught who I am. I was told, “you are Ghost,” and “this is Dad” or "that is candy," etc. Learning to label and differentiate, the clarity and wonder of the world as it was faded into a world of many. A curious and confident boy became insecure and confused, tangled in a web of stories about himself and others.

Over time, I collected more and more tokens and labels of this identity, constantly reaffirming and solidifying it. Each label seemed to add weight to the web of stories, further tangling the clarity that had once been natural. Occasionally, in some beautiful or dissolving moment, the whole thing would be seen through—but the conditioning continued (and continues) to reassert itself, arising again and again.

So it started when I learned, “I am me,” instead of asking, “Who am I?” or resting in the simple recognition, “I am.” It works by repeating this tortured mantra, "I am me," moment after moment, as though scrambling to make a statue out of water.

~Ghost

Rather nicely put.
Back to you soon.

Love,

Jeff

Hi Ghost,

One of the other guides has some questions that are helping me to look deeper at some of what you have shared. My schedule is changing (holiday as well as work demands) so I will need to slow things down a fair amount but I am still on the case, so to speak.

After a quick look I did start to see a lot of "me" and "I" references that seemed like they were rather..."thick" and encumbering for you. So like in between your (what seems to me) very clear instances of seeing...nothingness...where there might have once (apparently) have been a "Ghost" of some substance, you seem to reflexively pull up the "blankets" of "familiarity" and identification over your head "as" something resembling an entity comes up and grabs your attention.

Look around and see what you can see.

Love,

J

I slept and dreamed that life was happiness.
I woke, and found that life was service.
I served, and found in service, happiness is found.

- Rabindranath Tagore

Look around and see what you can see.

There is just this. Senses and thoughts. Of course there is a reflexive return to self-ing, but when this is recognized it is seen through. Nobody is choosing to forget no-self, nobody is choosing to remember no-self. If awareness is lost in/identified with thought, it is until it isn't.

The moment all of this is recognized as appearance, as thought, it is liberated. It is all invented problems.

There is certainly no claim that the self has stopped asserting itself. It is simply possible to look and see there is nothing to see.