with open curiosity and gratitude

[Sol42]

Hello Magdalena,

Thank you for the comments and questions, I laughed a lot :-). This time I am responding as I am reading your message, to see whether there is less overthinking and more spontaneity. And posting it right away before I discover myself editing.

Tell me about it: what is Sol wrestling with? How is this wrestling experienced? One or two examples would help.

Sol is wrestling with Sol (this is my feeling, not understanding). Wrestling is experienced as a pervasive state of “I am not right” followed by whatever I can do to change that. For example, “work on myself”: learn, analyze, meditate, therapy, try different techniques for different aspects of my “wrongness”. Let’s say, when I get angry or judgmental, I acknowledge the feeling, but condemn it, because “it is natural to have emotions, but a good person would get over them quickly…maybe extinguish the “bad” ones altogether”. And no matter the “progress”, Sol remains not accepting of what is. Not even accepting the lack of acceptance.

An example of wrestling I see as “external” would be me having an ongoing one-sided spat with god/universe/whatever is in charge LOL. Sol is very dissatisfied, outraged, righteously indignation-ed with how things are arranged, you see. Life shouldn’t be this way: there should be more sense, less cruelty and so on. Well, to be fair, these are rare flare-ups, and most of the time I am comfortable with the “I don’t know anything, it is what it is, I trust this “it is” to be exactly how it needs to be”. This way of seeing life feels great, but rejection of life how I see it during "flare-ups" must be always there, even when in standby mode.

Please let me know if you’d like me to give more precise examples: specific events/thoughts/situations etc.

It doesn’t matter, but it’s not the way you feel so there’s no point dismissing it with the “just thoughts” mantra.

Very true.

What exactly scares you about the no-control thing? That once you see it, you’ll lose your job, people you’re close to, your home? That you’ll end up in a loony bin? That you’ll be struck by lightning? Eaten by wolves?

:-) None of these (though how would I know, anything could happen LOL). What comes up right away is an emotion of light grief, nostalgia, concern: I will have to say goodbye to Sol, and I kind of like Sol, Sol is an interesting character, in a way… And I will have to quit this fascinating (even though painful) Grand Project Of Self-Improvement. But... I’ve already put so much time and effort in it, are you telling me it was all a fool’s errand?! Besides, what else would I do when I am not constantly busy with the Project, seriously?

This is what comes up, as vague impressions, I’m trying to put them in words the best I can. So, basically: fear of no-control turns to be the fear of absence of self. Am I missing something?

Is there any difference between your tales and Grimm’s tales?

Intellectually – no. As a feeling – my tales feel more real. Something like: "my tales are probably nothing what they actually are, but at least these are tales about the REAL thing: me, whatever that is". This is while knowing all well that Grimm’s tales are as real as any other tales, that they ARE the REAL thing just like my tales are, just like everything is.

You know, typing this, I am hit by what feels like boredom. Like, “yes, I got it, the glitch has been addressed/resolved, can we stop talking about it now”? And now there is no difference between the tales, neither intellectually, nor as a feeling. Spaciousness and lack of desire to put what is into words. I will sit with it, see what happens.

Whether it’s smoking, paint colours or marriage partners, wouldn’t the final choosing happen kind of like in the hand flipping experiment?

I can’t answer either way at the moment. I need more experience/looking to answer this honestly.

Does it work every single time? Like there’s not even one day when you overspend or reach for that one more cup beyond your limit?
And who decides that setting these limits is a thing in the first place? Where do these ideas come from? Sol the Great Controller of Life?

No, no, not every time. Probably not even half the time! This is hilarious. What is the use of making decisions, then?!

You are right. The ideas behind Sol’s decisions are not Sol’s. This is so obvious. I will think about it the next time I find myself in Sol-the-Great-Controller situation… which might be two seconds from now lol!

Is Sol making decisions about and in control of how this conversation unfolds? Because Magdalena is not. 😉

Absolutely not, though I can’t explain why I think so. It’s a sense of a delightful flow, the Sol character feels somewhere on the periphery.


... will go do the hand exercise again :-D

With gratitude,
Sol

[Magdalena]

Hello Sol,

I am responding as I am reading your message, to see whether there is less overthinking and more spontaneity. And posting it right away before I discover myself editing.

Yes!

a pervasive state of “I am not right” followed by whatever I can do to change that.

First things first.

How often are you aware of that mental chatter that goes on for most of the time?

That’s where most of the self-sabotage comes from, and if any comes from other people, the mental chatter is only too happy to oblige – by magnifying things; speaking in the voices of your parent, teacher or some other figure of authority; running all sorts of terrifying stories with vivid detail; invoking emotions (the stronger, the better); berating you; calling you names; feeding you with scary pictorial or film-like representations of possible and impossible consequences; and so on. Its repertoire is amazingly broad. (Saying all this with genuine appreciation.)

But, unless you’re some sort of a Jack-the-Ripper figure, or enjoy snatching old ladies’ handbags in the street as a hobby, or – I don’t know – torture kittens for fun (in which cases you need proper therapy), I imagine there is nothing wrong with you – any more than there is with me or most people you ever meet.

So much for how reliable that mental chatter can be.

Now for the practicalities.

For example, “work on myself”: learn, analyze, meditate, therapy, try different techniques for different aspects of my “wrongness”.

And you fall for it in the hopes of shutting that inner talker up. If you become “a better version of yourself”, it will be satisfied and shut up, right?
Doesn’t happen, does it?
The thing never shuts up. You can’t shut it up. But you can outsmart it.

Let’s say, when I get angry or judgmental, I acknowledge the feeling, but condemn it, because “it is natural to have emotions, but a good person would get over them quickly…maybe extinguish the “bad” ones altogether”.

OMG sounds like you’ve internalised lots of pseudo-spiritual b/s.

For one thing, it is totally normal to get angry or judgemental.

No need to “acknowledge” anything – it’s how things are. As humans, we respond to the environment in various ways, mainly with survival as the goal: an ancient mechanism. You may condemn anger, judgement and the like to your heart’s content, and feed yourself with stories about what good people do or don’t do, or fantasise about extinguishing whatever. Yet biology can hardly be expected to respond to your stories about good or bad etc., i.e. concepts fed into you by society at large. Two different levels, aren’t they?


Here’s another way to think about it:
If no one ever told you what “anger” was and that it’s “bad”, how on earth would you know??

Meaning you can safely assume that, let’s face it, mind chatter (i.e. thoughts) will be there, whether more or less pressing, but there is no need to take any of its content seriously. Much less to respond to any of it with the kind of actions it suggests (self-improvement etc.)


How about if thought content was responded to in the same way you'd respond to a drunk verbally abusing you for no reason at a bus stop or some other public place? Seeing that they are too drunk to put their b/s into action. What thoughts say and what this guy might have to say being equally absurd. Literally. No difference.
That’s one way to deal with it.


Another is to take it as if it was a car radio playing in the background – no one is really listening, and yet it keeps playing. Who cares.


But once you spot a thought story running, do appreciate it for its creativity, cleverness and entertainment value. Then laugh at it, swear at it, blow it a kiss – do whatever little act you like in recognition of what’s been noticed. If it keeps nagging, keep laughing etc.

Or invent your own ways. Those ways here are what works for me – has worked for decades (most of the time anyway LOL).

And if it doesn’t and you happen to fall for the silliness of it all, laugh hard when you see it – because it is so freaking hilarious. No need to be serious, much less “spiritual” about any of it.

What comes up right away is an emotion of light grief, nostalgia, concern: I will have to say goodbye to Sol, and I kind of like Sol, Sol is an interesting character, in a way…

LOL why on earth would you have to say good bye to Sol?
I’m pretty sure he’s a fun character too.😉He is not going anywhere so you can just as well relax. It’s not that you’ve been invited to Sol’s funeral and need to go shop for the flowers right now.

And I will have to quit this fascinating (even though painful) Grand Project Of Self-Improvement.

No, you will have to do nothing of the sort.
I mean you may lose interest in it. Anything wrong with that?

But... I’ve already put so much time and effort in it, are you telling me it was all a fool’s errand?!

As if you didn’t know already LOL

Besides, what else would I do when I am not constantly busy with the Project, seriously?

I don’t know.
Go to the gym. Travel. Watch Netflix. Learn a new language. Argue on social media. Party. Become a guide on Liberation Unleashed. Write books. Come on, man – a whole world of possibilities lies open. Take your pick. Enjoy.

So, basically: fear of no-control turns to be the fear of absence of self. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are.
You are missing the most basic thing: your belief that there is a separate self called Sol in control of Life, and that it can go away at some point.
But because you believe in something does not necessarily make it a fact.

I will sit with it, see what happens.

LOL Don’t.
You don’t sit with stuff – you live with it. That makes all the difference.

I can’t answer either way at the moment. I need more experience/looking to answer this honestly.

Fair enough.
In my experience, this can be seen most clearly at so-called big moments in life: marriage, divorce, someone’s death, or even buying or selling property. But it’s wherever you look – down to the most insignificant stuff, like having either tea or coffee for breakfast or “choosing” the shirt for the day.

No, no, not every time. Probably not even half the time! This is hilarious. What is the use of making decisions, then?!

LMAO

The ideas behind Sol’s decisions are not Sol’s. This is so obvious. I will think about it the next time I find myself in Sol-the-Great-Controller situation

Don’t think about it – watch.

... will go do the hand exercise again :-D

Sure – enjoy.
Let me know if you’d like some other experiments of this sort to try out. 😉

It's been a long post LOL Take it in chunks if you like. Tell me how all this sits with you.

[Sol42]

Magdalena,

my apologies: I have been a bit overwhelmed last few days. Tis the season and all. I will respond no later than tomorrow! :)

With gratitude,
Sol

[Magdalena]

Sure. No rush.
Be as jolly as you possibly can.
Ho Ho Ho Ho! 😄

[Sol42]

Hello Maddalena,

So... I responded to your last message on Dec 23rd, as I said I would. Today came back here to add a few comments, and couldn't find my last post. Turns out, I either didn't hit the "post" button, or there was a glitch in the system (pretty sure it's a glitch in my upstairs system ha-ha)! My apologies, lesson learned!

Below is my last response.

Thank you,
Sol

***
Hello Magdalena,

Thank you for your patience and time - such a long message!! Again, answering as I am reading it.

How often are you aware of that mental chatter that goes on for most of the time?

Quite often. It’s almost constant, yes.

I imagine there is nothing wrong with you – any more than there is with me or most people you ever meet.

Absolutely! And I understand it so well! And yet, the unease is still there, it is felt the body, it is free-floating.

And you fall for it in the hopes of shutting that inner talker up. If you become “a better version of yourself”, it will be satisfied and shut up, right?
Doesn’t happen, does it?

Nope. NEVER. No matter how I act or behave, it is never satisfied. At most - a grudging acknowledgement followed by an avalanche of it should be betters. Impossible to catch up with it - I realized this quite recently.

The thing never shuts up. You can’t shut it up. But you can outsmart it.

Tell me more! :-D

OMG sounds like you’ve internalized lots of pseudo-spiritual b/s.

Yes, a soup of ideas. I guess it started with cultural expectations/environment when I was growing up, then transitioned into "searching for something".

As humans, we respond to the environment in various ways, mainly with survival as the goal: an ancient mechanism. You may condemn anger, judgement and the like to your heart’s content, and feed yourself with stories about what good people do or don’t do, or fantasise about extinguishing whatever. Yet biology can hardly be expected to respond to your stories about good or bad etc., i.e. concepts fed into you by society at large. Two different levels, aren’t they?

Yep! Nature doesn’t care about my agenda.

If no one ever told you what “anger” was and that it’s “bad”, how on earth would you know??

Hm, I wouldn’t know, as simple as that. Anger as any other emotion would be just a part of a natural flow.

Meaning you can safely assume that, let’s face it, mind chatter (i.e. thoughts) will be there, whether more or less pressing, but there is no need to take any of its content seriously. Much less to respond to any of it with the kind of actions it suggests (self-improvement etc.)

When reading “but there is no need to take any of its content seriously”, there was a pang of fear - “how would I know what to do, if I don’t pay attention to the content of my thoughts?”, and right away an image of a chatty parrot on a pirate’s shoulder. The parrot’s chatter is not needed for the pirate to do what pirates do. The picture is simplistic, but the feeling behind it was very clear.

Another is to take it as if it was a car radio playing in the background – no one is really listening, and yet it keeps playing. Who cares.

Noted

But once you spot a thought story running, do appreciate it for its creativity, cleverness and entertainment value. Then laugh at it, swear at it, blow it a kiss – do whatever little act you like in recognition of what’s been noticed. If it keeps nagging, keep laughing etc.

Ok…I foresee a lot of laughter in my future LOL!!! What is the purpose of acting in recognition of the thought, if you could elaborate? :)

He is not going anywhere so you can just as well relax. It’s not that you’ve been invited to Sol’s funeral and need to go shop for the flowers right now.

Bummer, I look smashing in black! Thank you for pointing it out. I would guess that the character would not just remain, but be more genuine, less restrained… but the unease is there. I will continue playing with it.

And I will have to quit this fascinating (even though painful) Grand Project Of Self-Improvement.
No, you will have to do nothing of the sort.
I mean you may lose interest in it. Anything wrong with that?

Gosh no! I never thought about it from this perspective. Losing interest in it feels like “don’t pass go AND don’t go to jail”, it sounds wonderful.

But... I’ve already put so much time and effort in it, are you telling me it was all a fool’s errand?!
As if you didn’t know already LOL

Touché

Besides, what else would I do when I am not constantly busy with the Project, seriously?
I don’t know.
Go to the gym. Travel. Watch Netflix. Learn a new language. Argue on social media. Party. Become a guide on Liberation Unleashed. Write books. Come on, man – a whole world of possibilities lies open. Take your pick. Enjoy.

Wow. This hit me like a ton of bricks. Wow. I sat with this a little. After I stopped crying. This is so beautiful.
AND I laughed when the mind rushed to put its 2 cents in hehe.

You are missing the most basic thing: your belief that there is a separate self called Sol in control of Life, and that it can go away at some point.
But because you believe in something does not necessarily make it a fact.

Yep. When I look, I can’t find it, but there is still a belief.

You don’t sit with stuff – you live with it. That makes all the difference.

LOL love it (sounds more fun, anyway)!

The ideas behind Sol’s decisions are not Sol’s. This is so obvious. I will think about it the next time I find myself in Sol-the-Great-Controller situation
Don’t think about it – watch.

Got it.

... will go do the hand exercise again :-D
Sure – enjoy.

There is this bizarre/amusing feeling when I do that: like I am witnessing something otherworldly/miraculous (so difficult to describe it, argh!). As if I would spontaneously break into a jig dance (I have no clue how to do a jig dance) – “holy cow, was it there all this time? I have no idea what is happening right now!”. Baffling.

Let me know if you’d like some other experiments of this sort to try out. 😉

Yes, please! :-D

It's been a long post LOL Take it in chunks if you like. Tell me how all this sits with you.

Will do. Meanwhile, if you want to throw in a couple more shock grenades, please do!

Thank you!!

Sol

[Magdalena]

Hey Sol,

How often are you aware of that mental chatter that goes on for most of the time?

Quite often.

Very good. This is crucial.

Absolutely! And I understand it so well! And yet, the unease is still there, it is felt the body, it is free-floating.

What is this unease about, precisely?
Something from the past that Sol must be regularly reminded to be ashamed of, or something from the future that Sol must never stop worrying about?

Impossible to catch up with it - I realized this quite recently.

Glad you’re seeing this. ;-)

The thing never shuts up. You can’t shut it up. But you can outsmart it.

Tell me more! :-D

You outsmart it by realising how it’s bullshitting you all the time, and not trusting it again.
Simple as that. ;-)

If no one ever told you what “anger” was and that it’s “bad”, how on earth would you know??

Hm, I wouldn’t know, as simple as that. Anger as any other emotion would be just a part of a natural flow.

Exactly.

Just like when Sol was a small child and at some point realised that his caregivers used the word “Sol” to refer to him and not to anything else in the room. Or taught him to point to “Sol’s nose” or showed him a mirror reflection saying it was “you, Sol”.

Or Sol cried and his caregiver figured out this was because Sol was hungry, and when the concept of “hungry/hunger” kept being repeated in similar circumstances, Sol got it that a certain sensation in the stomach area was called “hunger”.

Same with everything else – can you see this?


Anger, love, judgement, joy, satisfaction, anxiety – you name it: what are they when you investigate them closely?

When reading “but there is no need to take any of its content seriously”, there was a pang of fear - “how would I know what to do, if I don’t pay attention to the content of my thoughts?”

You still keep your hand away from a hot stove and swerve to avoid an obstacle on the road when driving. You can still plan a holiday, book a hotel and transportation, and you do whatever else is needed.

It’s not that anything of substance changes – it’s only that an illusion drops.

Do I sound like some drooling zombie?

…and right away an image of a chatty parrot on a pirate’s shoulder. The parrot’s chatter is not needed for the pirate to do what pirates do.

Love that parrot image!

Ok…I foresee a lot of laughter in my future LOL!!!

Sure thing – enjoy!

What is the purpose of acting in recognition of the thought, if you could elaborate? :)

I find it helps me stay aware that a story is in progress and that I’ve already seen it for what it is, i.e. a story.
Some people believe that laughing specifically helps make new neuronal pathways in the brain, but I don’t know it for a fact.

Wow. This hit me like a ton of bricks. Wow. I sat with this a little. After I stopped crying. This is so beautiful.

Good. ;-)

AND I laughed when the mind rushed to put its 2 cents in hehe.

Perfect. ;-)

When I look, I can’t find it, but there is still a belief.

Where does that belief come from exactly?
In what situations does it get the loudest?
What else can you say about it?

There is this bizarre/amusing feeling when I do that: like I am witnessing something otherworldly/miraculous (so difficult to describe it, argh!).

Fun, isn’t it? LOL

As if I would spontaneously break into a jig dance (I have no clue how to do a jig dance)

You sure would LOL – nothing’s holding you already – you are not a slave to your own beliefs even now – can you see this?

Thank you!!

You’re welcome. :-)

[Magdalena]

Sorry, Sol, forgot to upload your experiments with the previous post.

Here goes:

1)
Drink Exercise
The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.
Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.
Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment: Finding the function of choice
Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:
1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?


2)
Food Choice

So taking a closer look, is it that thoughts are controlling these behaviours in any way? Try this out.

Get two foods you like, one that is a 'bad' food, like a piece of chocolate and the other a 'good food,' like a piece of apple. Thoughts might come up while looking at them saying stuff about eating one or the other. Eventually one of them will get eaten first.

Look carefully for any evidence in direct experience to see if those thoughts controlled the behaviour; rather than just guessing and commentating what might happen.

Have fun, as always ;-)

[Sol42]

Dear Magdalena,

Thank you for the questions.

What is this unease about, precisely?

This unease, feeling that i am :wrong isn't about anything in particular. If I try to find reasons to why I feel “wrong”, there will be plenty, of course: all kinds of judgements. But overall: just a general feeling of inadequacy.

Something from the past that Sol must be regularly reminded to be ashamed of, or something from the future that Sol must never stop worrying about?

Both. Yet again, very few events or particular worries I can point to.

If I try to give this unease a voice, this is what it says: “You are falling short. You are neither cold nor hot - a useless, pointless being. Look at all your unpleasant qualities”. Hm. I ask: “Where exactly am I falling short? What do I need to be, so that I am not pointless”? And there is no coherent answer!

This is not my voice. As the voice that sometimes tells me that I’m the best thing since sliced bread, is not my voice. Holy cow! LOL!

You outsmart it by realising how it’s bullshitting you all the time, and not trusting it again.
Simple as that. ;-)

Questioning thoughts is an interesting feeling. Sometimes thoughts are funny, sometimes boring, sometimes exasperating, sometimes I feel like the ground is unstable under my feet. What I’ve noticed is that no matter the feeling I just can’t find a stable solid truth behind any of them. Even simple things like “the sun is bright” (although I see the function - like, the sun is bright, so don’t look at it without protection). At the same time, there is a stable solid sense of truth inside. Don’t want to use the word truth in relation to it…Its just a sense. There are moments, with fundamental things like love, satisfaction, like you suggested…when it feels like reality is blurring, ripping, and yet there is this stable point that is OK amidst disintegration. Like, totally fine. And clear.

I have to admit, there are thoughts about whether I am just imagining things. That I am fabricating my experience in accordance with all the, what you called, spiritual BS. That I am experiencing more dissociation than peace. That I am taking a spiritual bypass. What I do with this is tell myself that I simply don’t know what’s going on, and address these thoughts like I do any other thoughts.

Anger, love, judgement, joy, satisfaction, anxiety – you name it: what are they when you investigate them closely?

I am investigating these in fits and starts. Some seem easy, like anxiety. Others are mind-bending. Love, for example. I get stuck, can’t think of anything. So I drop into the feeling and imagine how it is to have it, to BE it without naming it. It’s just being, thoughtless. But instantly, my mind offers doubts: “if we just love, then we can just stop being love (ridiculous, right?!) and what about morals, if we just are who we want to be, it’s going to be a horrible society” and all. So I look at the fear, and beliefs, and judgement, and it keeps branching off and branching off and soon I feel lost, going in circles. One belief is linked to ten others, and so on. Mycelium web which I address one mushroom at a time – it feels like a desperate quest. Am I being too much in my head? Am I fighting instead of just looking? The do-er takes over?

It’s not that anything of substance changes – it’s only that an illusion drops.
Do I sound like some drooling zombie?

You do not! :-)

Where does that belief come from exactly?
In what situations does it get the loudest?
What else can you say about it?

Belief in Self:
Where does that belief come from exactly? I don’t know, except for, like you said above, someone pointed to Sol’s nose, etc. One definition after another, one label after another.

In what situations does it get the loudest?
- When I feel “treated unfairly”, “attacked” and have to “protect” myself.
- When I feel uncertain/not confident in a social setting, I retreat into my characteristics in an attempt to both center myself and boost myself: I am such and such - intelligent, good person, yada yada: I am me, I am ok as I am, I don’t need to be like everyone else. Funny, I’m only now realizing that I tend to do that, I am hardly conscious of it in the moment.
- It is also louder when I am worried about the future. In this case, Sol comes across as a lonely, scared child in an empty unfriendly world.

What else can you say about it?
That I am tired of “myself”, exhausted by mental noise and petty thoughts, seeming inability to step out of my patterns, habits, tricks and dramas. Like I am stuck on a runaway train, can’t control it, can’t hop off – it drives me. I keep asking myself who is this “I” that is stuck and tired, but don’t get much as an answer. Also, I’ve noticed that I’ve been less reactive to “myself” lately. I have moments when I just can’t stand it, I need to “get out”, like, now. Intense emotional pain. Haven’t gone there lately, and in general there is more quiet curiosity that outright rejection.

As if I would spontaneously break into a jig dance (I have no clue how to do a jig dance)
You sure would LOL – nothing’s holding you already – you are not a slave to your own beliefs even now – can you see this?

I am not, I understand that... AND I can't tap into an intrinsic knowledge of it, I don’t know how to live it.


Something I wanted to share about “spiritual BS”: for the purpose of this conversation I get it and agree with the “BS” definition completely. When zooming out and looking at “spiritual” as a concept, it stopped being a thing. There is knowledge that everything is spiritual, and everything is profane. And nothing is. There is a lot of peace in it.

Magdalena, I want to apologize beforehand if there is a delay in responding: I have house guests at the moment, and it is difficult for me to focus on/find time to respond, I am a host. I will be back to normal schedule January 1st.

Thank you for drink/food choice exercises: now I can’t eat or make myself a cup of tea without thinking about it LOL! :-)


With gratitude,
Sol

[Magdalena]

Hey Sol,

How very interesting, isn’t it?

a general feeling of inadequacy.

very few events or particular worries I can point to.

I ask: “Where exactly am I falling short? What do I need to be, so that I am not pointless”? And there is no coherent answer!

This is not my voice. As the voice that sometimes tells me that I’m the best thing since sliced bread, is not my voice. Holy cow! LOL!

Right, it is not YOUR voice.

Do you realise how many billions of people all over the globe hear exactly the same voice - experience exactly the same thoughts?

And each and every one of them believes that these very thoughts, or a combination thereof, make them who they are – a special, unique individual?

Read this AGAIN.

And AGAIN.

If I try to give this unease a voice, this is what it says: “You are falling short. You are neither cold nor hot - a useless, pointless being. Look at all your unpleasant qualities”.

Is there a story that one must make oneself useful?
That one’s existence must have “a point”?

Questioning thoughts is an interesting feeling.

It’s even more interesting to ask “So what?” every time the thoughts are really being a pain in the ass. Like this:

“You are falling short.”

So what?

“You are neither cold nor hot - a useless, pointless being.”

So what?

“Look at all your unpleasant qualities.”

They are qualities like any other. So what?

I have to admit, there are thoughts about whether I am just imagining things. That I am fabricating my experience in accordance with all the, what you called, spiritual BS.

This may actually be pretty accurate LOL.
Look, these are all human-made concepts: spirituality, peace, spiritual bypassing, what have you.
Without applying concepts on top, there is only so-called direct experience. Not that it’s terribly direct per se because while sensory data are received via our sensory organs, it is the brain that interprets them and tries to make sense of them as best it can. So much for the scientific story. But, if seen from this perspective, yes – we are all constantly imagining things and fabricating our experience.

Some seem easy, like anxiety. Others are mind-bending. Love, for example. I get stuck, can’t think of anything.

They are all the same: human-made labels applied to certain physical sensations.
Anxiety is, for many people, a sort of tension in the abdomen, cold sweat, trembling hands. Love is, for many, a fuzzy warmth, wanting to touch, hug or kiss, etc. Judgement is a sort of rigid stiffness or a weight experienced somewhere in the chest, and so on.
Just like with hunger – a sense of the stomach being kind of sucked in, aren’t they simply conceptual labels applied on top of what is being sensed? Labels learnt via socialisation?



As for the sense of self.
Where is that sense of self WITHOUT the stories about being “treated unfairly”, “attacked” and having to “protect” that self? About Sol’s discomfort in social settings? About worries that may arise in future?
About being tired of “myself”, exhausted by mental noise and petty thoughts, seeming inability to step out of my patterns, habits, tricks and dramas?

Where is that self when there’s no thinking about it?

I can't tap into an intrinsic knowledge of it, I don’t know how to live it.

Allow yourself to do a bit of that jig dance at times maybe? ;-)

There is knowledge that everything is spiritual, and everything is profane. And nothing is. There is a lot of peace in it.

Knowledge is a concept, spirituality is a concept, profanity is a concept, and peace is a concept too. This much should be clear by now?

Thank you for drink/food choice exercises: now I can’t eat or make myself a cup of tea without thinking about it LOL! :-)

As before, DON’T think about it – WATCH instead.

Watch when walking, when taking the rubbish out, when using your wallet, when speaking, when falling asleep, when opening your eyes first thing in the morning…

WATCH.

[Sol42]

Hello, Magdalena,

Thank you for your patience and best wishes for the new year!

Do you realise how many billions of people all over the globe hear exactly the same voice - experience exactly the same thoughts?
And each and every one of them believes that these very thoughts, or a combination thereof, make them who they are – a special, unique individual?
Read this AGAIN.
And AGAIN.

Yes, now that you pointed this out, I can see it. It feels like insanity.

Is there a story that one must make oneself useful?
That one’s existence must have “a point”?

Absolutely. Feels deeply ingrained, since early childhood. Belief that there must be a point/purpose/meaning to life, and that an individual has to be useful/helpful/productive. How do I work with it? Tracing the belief back to "not mine" is helpful to a degree, but "me" insists on actually believing it, whether it's mine or nor. "I agree - individual lives must have a point!"

It’s even more interesting to ask “So what?” every time the thoughts are really being a pain in the ass. Like this:
“You are falling short.”
So what?
“You are neither cold nor hot - a useless, pointless being.”
So what?

There is no answer to SO WHAT or a chain of SO WHATs. The internal judgement of behaving like a petulant teenager who just brushes off the things that are "actually important", is still there. Well...so what?!?

Some seem easy, like anxiety. Others are mind-bending. Love, for example. I get stuck, can’t think of anything.
They are all the same: human-made labels applied to certain physical sensations.
Anxiety is, for many people, a sort of tension in the abdomen, cold sweat, trembling hands. Love is, for many, a fuzzy warmth, wanting to touch, hug or kiss, etc. Judgement is a sort of rigid stiffness or a weight experienced somewhere in the chest, and so on.
Just like with hunger – a sense of the stomach being kind of sucked in, aren’t they simply conceptual labels applied on top of what is being sensed? Labels learnt via socialisation?

I can see that. Learnt labels, adopted beliefs: concepts + physical sensations. I haven’t spent much time looking at it (will touch on it later in this tread), but want to do that. Go through different concepts and beliefs.

Where is that self when there’s no thinking about it?

When no thinking, the Self appears as a sensation. Not even a personality, just physical presence. But if the stories are removed there is no self, just a feeling of presence.

Knowledge is a concept, spirituality is a concept, profanity is a concept, and peace is a concept too. This much should be clear by now?

Crystal clear.

As before, DON’T think about it – WATCH instead.
Watch when walking, when taking the rubbish out, when using your wallet, when speaking, when falling asleep, when opening your eyes first thing in the morning…
WATCH

It is “trippy”, to see the automatism, the flow happening without my participation. I catch myself in the middle of an action without being able to trace it back to a decision, just an impulse, often – an impulse that hardly even registers in conscious mind. Emotions come up, memories come up, actions happen, even the words just “come out”, like, even now, typing, how do I know what thought will be expressed and in what way? Yes, there is an idea, a sense of what I want to express, but I haven’t chosen the sense or didn’t come up with the idea. Yet, the feeling of ME doing, even seen as unsubstantiated, is so strong. Like: when I watch it, it all just happens. As soon as the focus shifts away, ME claims the doing.


Magdalena, I’ve been feeling overwhelmed last couple of weeks, going from one thing/exercise to another, trying to practice “everything” and staying in the “shallow waters” because I don’t focus enough on anything in particular. I’ve always been more of a slow processor (another story?) and feel like I need more time and/or more structure. I want to ask you whether we can focus on fewer things at a time. For example, looking into concepts as physical sensations – this “exercise” alone could take me days, and so would the intentional practice of “WATCH”. I do that, I get an impression, a feeling, a realization…but I would like to get more anchored into experience of whatever is happening when I am watching. I want it to become a knowing, not just a glimpse. I understand that the “slowing down” is artificial, since it is all one thing – beliefs/concepts/feelings/experiences/you name it – all interconnected. However, the same interconnectedness takes me into one rabbit hole after another, and usually results in confusion and vagueness of experiences I have. Is there a way we could address it? I understand that my question stems from my story of “how it should be”, so asking for your thoughts about it (If I make sense to you)?


With gratitude,
Sol

[Magdalena]

Hey Sol,

You’ve done some REALLY good looking.

Belief that there must be a point/purpose/meaning to life, and that an individual has to be useful/helpful/productive.

Just because the voice insists, do you need to believe what it says?

Imagine a neighbour bullshitting you about the earth being flat every time you meet them. It’s the same thing. The parrot on the pirate’s shoulder. The drunk at the bus stop. The car radio.

You’re just responding to that voice differently because you take it to be your own voice and because you’ve been in the habit of taking it seriously for years.
Back to the billions of people and the insanity.


So why not take your time to look into this story – and any story that the voice spins.

Examine your bodily sensations at various points of the story - at various statements that the “me” makes.

Consider what conceptual label each of these sensations comes with (“right”, “wrong”, “moral”, “productive”, “worthy”, “aspiration”, “worry”, “common knowledge”, whatever).

Consider whether it would be possible to pair up these labels with the sensations without being conditioned to do so – without having a prior notion of what these labels mean.

There is no answer to SO WHAT or a chain of SO WHATs.

That’s the whole point – there isn’t, so the me tries other, more dramatic, ways.

Anyway, you need to go all the way down to the very end of the so-what chain – to when it says “No one will like/accept/respect you”, “You are worthless as a human being”, “You will spend your life alone”, “You will die alone” – whatever seems the most threatening or scary at the moment.

Remind yourself of the many times the voice fed you with its bullshit, which never happened. That is the basis for the so-what question.

You need to keep going till the chain exhausts itself (not for ever, but you do get some quiet).
And not just once, but every time you use this method.

It doesn’t need to become a sitting exercise that takes up dedicated time. It can happen as you walk, as you drive or prepare a meal. It can happen quite quickly once it becomes a habit. (It needs to become a habit.)

Remember to laugh etc. at all the me’s drama as it’s being unfolded.

The internal judgement of behaving like a petulant teenager who just brushes off the things that are "actually important", is still there. Well...so what?!?

Yes – the “me” voice is desperate to protect itself by suggesting that all this is terribly important.
Anything wrong with that teenager??

Go through different concepts and beliefs.

That’s all we’ve been doing from day 1. ;)

When no thinking, the Self appears as a sensation. Not even a personality, just physical presence. But if the stories are removed there is no self, just a feeling of presence.

Yes.
But in order to see this we need to shut that internal voice up, even if for short.
That’s why we so-what the stories etc.

It is “trippy”, to see the automatism, the flow happening without my participation. … Like: when I watch it, it all just happens. As soon as the focus shifts away, ME claims the doing.

Spot on.

I would like to get more anchored into experience of whatever is happening when I am watching. I want it to become a knowing, not just a glimpse. … I understand that my question stems from my story of “how it should be”, so asking for your thoughts about it (If I make sense to you)?

No problem at all – I’m all in. ;-)
Take your time. Let me know how it goes.

[Sol42]

Hi Magdalena,

Just want to touch base, say that I did not fall off the edge of the Earth, I am here. Can't collect my thoughts enough for a coherent message. I continue looking, inquiry - seems like most of my waking hours, yet it feels vague, as if out of focus. Everything is more fluid AND less "graspable", yet not in a flowy kind of way (which, in my imagination, would be "good"), but is a fuzzy/unclear kind of way (which, in my imagination, is "not good").

Sense of self is acting up - i don't know how else to put it in words. A month ago, if I asked "who is experiencing this or that?", Self was on the periphery, never center. Now it jumps in right away with "well, of course it's "I" (self) who is experiencing it, what kind of question is this?!". Like that proverbial drunk on at a bus stop.

I am not complaining or saying that my state is perceived to be wrong, overall. Not at all. Just updating you and, well, sharing - I am curious to see what happens. Continuing to watch and investigate.

Thank you for your patience and being there on the other end of this thread...LOL this doesn't sound good at all: what other end?!? That's another thing - words - more and more it feels like doing calligraphy with the non-dominant hand, and watching others do the same.

I will be back on Friday, the latest :) 🙏

With gratitude,
Sol

[Magdalena]

Hello Sol,

Good to hear from you. :-)

it feels vague, as if out of focus. Everything is more fluid AND less "graspable", yet not in a flowy kind of way (which, in my imagination, would be "good"), but is a fuzzy/unclear kind of way (which, in my imagination, is "not good").

It is ALL good, no worries.

Sense of self is acting up ... Like that proverbial drunk on at a bus stop.

Great that you're seeing it for what it is.

I am curious to see what happens. Continuing to watch and investigate.

Perfect.

That's another thing - words - more and more it feels like doing calligraphy with the non-dominant hand, and watching others do the same.

LOL
Love this. :)

Take care and write soon.

[Sol42]

Hello, Magdalena,

Thank you for your encouragement, your time and energy!

Last week was perceived as tough – feeling of being stuck, confused, trying too hard but in a sloppy way, difficulty focusing and holding attention. All this was experienced and observed at the same time, as one. But, as you said,

It is ALL good, no worries.

This is clear now.

Belief that there must be a point/purpose/meaning to life, and that an individual has to be useful/helpful/productive.
Just because the voice insists, do you need to believe what it says?

It’s proven to be a slippery one: mind just doesn’t want to stay on the subject. It’s really interesting. Looking continues.

Examine your bodily sensations at various points of the story - at various statements that the “me” makes.
Consider what conceptual label each of these sensations comes with (“right”, “wrong”, “moral”, “productive”, “worthy”, “aspiration”, “worry”, “common knowledge”, whatever).

Every concept dissolves, even if for the time when looked at, directly… but sensations are sticky (who do they stick to, LOL?!?). In general, the idea/sense of self lands in the body. Can’t find self, but can “feel it”, whatever this feeling is. It is confusing… would appreciate any pointers on how to look at the somatic “rootedness”?

Consider whether it would be possible to pair up these labels with the sensations without being conditioned to do so – without having a prior notion of what these labels mean.
Not possible.

Anything wrong with that teenager??

Nothing at all. Another label/judgement. AND many somatic sensations, all “negative” because they are attached of the story of being a teenager.

It is “trippy”, to see the automatism, the flow happening without my participation. … Like: when I watch it, it all just happens. As soon as the focus shifts away, ME claims the doing.
Spot on.

Life happening – seeing this is more and more solid. “My” flow, “other” flows, its getting more difficult to get upset with what is happening, what others are doing, what is being done. Continue watching.

Sense of self is acting up ... Like that proverbial drunk on at a bus stop.
Great that you're seeing it for what it is.

About that. Something changed – slightly, but the lens shifted. Yes, Self is a drunk: loud, incoherent, annoying, infuriating. At the same time, at some point it “came through” as… well, a story. I know, I am using the standard description. Let me try to just describe it as it feels, the fear of sounding ridiculous, aside. It showed up as a child, who is confused, doesn’t understand what is happening, and is afraid. It knows a few tricks (if I do this, I will be praised, if that – punished), it holds onto a handful of understandings/beliefs (good children are loved, bad are rejected), it is accustomed to cry/scream/nag/plead/seek attention in order to be noticed, to EXIST. It is terrified to abandoned, to be canceled. Was talking with a friend today, and the story of this child appeared as an image of a keepsake box – one where we usually keep childhood pictures, drawings, hand-made greeting cards, little treasures. A memory box. There is an understanding that what I’ve been trying to do so far is to burn this box. Throw it out, forget about it. I’ve been trying to kick this child out, I’ve been cold and even cruel. And there is no need to do that. Not only no need, it’s just impossible. Ridiculous. This is so obvious! I've been intermittently trying to make this child awaken and destroy it. Hilarious, and so sad! It all IS, and it is all, again, good. Self IS - as an idea, as a story, but this is it. “I” doesn’t have to squeeze itself into Self. There is no dichotomy self/no self. There is Self AND everything else, ALL else, all of it. I can keep the memory box, I can feel the compassion and acceptance towards the story it holds, as I do now…I just don’t need to see it as THE source of information about who I am, as who I am. Just a box. Feels like there is more space now, stepping outside this box.

I hope this makes sense – words slide and slither, as they do. And this is a very fresh experience, there is a strong pull to be in it, to see what else it holds. It is also less conceptual as many of the “shifts”, more of a sense. Your thoughts?

With gratitude,

Sol

[Magdalena]

Hello, Sol,

It is ALL good, no worries.

This is clear now.

Great. 😊

It’s proven to be a slippery one: mind just doesn’t want to stay on the subject. It’s really interesting. Looking continues.

Very good. 😊

Every concept dissolves, even if for the time when looked at, directly… but sensations are sticky (who do they stick to, LOL?!?). In general, the idea/sense of self lands in the body. Can’t find self, but can “feel it”, whatever this feeling is.

Can you see that what you’re feeling is nothing more than innocent bodily sensations? But once they are coupled with concepts that society has conditioned you to take for granted, this gets the label “self”? And so you’re duped into believing it’s “self” you’re “feeling”?

Look into this carefully.

“My” flow, “other” flows, its getting more difficult to get upset with what is happening, what others are doing, what is being done. Continue watching.

Good 😊

…Self IS - as an idea, as a story, but this is it. “I” doesn’t have to squeeze itself into Self. There is no dichotomy self/no self. There is Self AND everything else, ALL else, all of it. I can keep the memory box, I can feel the compassion and acceptance towards the story it holds, as I do now…I just don’t need to see it as THE source of information about who I am, as who I am. Just a box. Feels like there is more space now, stepping outside this box.

Absolutely.

Lovely story, lovely imagery – but, yes, a story nevertheless. And yes, nothing needs to be done about any of it: no need to identify with it or disown it or anything. Just let things be, right?

And this is a very fresh experience, there is a strong pull to be in it, to see what else it holds. It is also less conceptual as many of the “shifts”, more of a sense. Your thoughts?

Follow the pull then. You don’t need me or anyone else to tell you what to do.

It is ALL good. 😊