Thoughts, triggers and doubts

[ty0]

So who are you? That question is pretty funny :). Does it still feel like you're here working through all this stuff and noticing thought patterns?

I've watched a couple of Vince S. recordings. This is very informative and I'll try to join if I can.

Oh yeah Vince is a wizard with emotion work. Therapy on steroids hahah. Come say hi tomorrow if you can I'll probably be there.

[Isobel]

So who are you? That question is pretty funny :). Does it still feel like you're here working through all this stuff and noticing thought patterns

I don't know. Yes it is a funny question because I don't have an answer. There are still some usual patterns of course. I still respond to my name etc, but when I look, I can't find a "me".

Working through this stuff seems to be just happening. The funny thing is that I can see it's always been the case. All the "me" thoughts is just an addition to what is.

[ty0]

Yeah :). So would you say you've seen through self?

[Isobel]

Sorry I didn't reply earlier but I needed to "process" a few things that have been happening lately.

So would you say you've seen through self?

Yes. I can clearly see there's no inherent self.
I can only find seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling physical sensations, tasting and thoughts popping up from seemingly nowhere.

[ty0]

Morning Isobel, hope things are going ok for you :). Would you like the final questions? I could then share your answers with the other guides to see if everyone agrees that you're "through the gate" then once that's done (there may be extra questions) you're given access to additional parts of LU and a Facebook group of everyone who's gone through this. Totally optional and up to you.

Of course, if we wrap things up here, you can continue chatting with me off of the forum if you feel like you want continued support for deepening this "realisation". Other resources are the Facebook group and Vince's meetings.

[Isobel]

Would you like the final questions?

Sure. I'm ready for the questions.

[ty0]

Here ya go

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

[Isobel]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

I have looked for it many time and I couldn't find it. The sense of self is only a mental construct made of thought stuff. There is no separate entity "self" anywhere. It's quite clear that it never was there.

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

I don't know how this illusion came into being. Thoughts keep referring to me, me ,me and I never questioned their content before. When I try to find the source of the thoughts, I just cannot find find anything. It seems they just arise on their own from nowhere. There is no inherent "I" creating thoughts. Just thoughts judging, commenting, ordering, self deprecating, often negative...

It was also hard to see that my body was doing it's own things without a "me" ordering it. It felt that some body functions were automatic while others were following mind's orders. One day, as I was tapping my hand on the blanket, I ordered it to stop but my hand kept tapping. I tried very hard to order it to stop, to no avail. This experience seems silly but it made me realise that there is no independent "I" pulling the strings. "I" is a intricate concept built on memories and experiences. It's useful for communication but it's definitely not a separate independent entity.

I can't say that things have changed dramatically. Everything is still the same and ordinary. However, I haven't had any bout of depression and I'm feeling much calmer. I can catch my thoughts more easily and notice that they are just that, thoughts. I don't get dragged in their stories so easily. I try to feel bodily sensations fully when they arise and until they dissipate. Some of my old fears have gone after working on the physical sensations.
One thing a bit unusual: when I go for a walk, it often feels like the world, especially the trees, are moving through me rather than me moving through the world

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I think I was nearly there before joining the forum. I just needed a final push and somehow, for the first time in my life, I feel that I belong. I also now enjoy sitting in silence and feel whatever arises.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

No. I can't say that I had an epiphany as such but I know something is definitely different.

[Isobel]

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

I don't know how things happen. They just happen.
Thoughts claim ownership but when there is no thought, it is very clear that everything keeps happening regardless.
"I" cannot decide to be healthy if the body is diseased.
No matter how much "I" anticipates a difficult conversation, reviewing all possible scenarios, the reality is always different to what was anticipated. "I" doesn't have any control on situations.
Choices seem to be made, and decisions happen even in the absence of thought.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Since a separate self cannot be found it cannot be responsible for anything. My cat went went missing a few months ago and at the time I felt very guilty for leaving the garage door open. I now know I wasn't responsible. There isn't a little 'I" , living somewhere in my head, who forgot to close the door. The door just stayed open. A million things out of my control lead to the event.
Our cat was finally found on his birthday after nearly 3 weeks. I had lost hope. Once again all the worry and horror movies created by my mind proved to be wrong. Thinking about things don't make them real. Thoughts are just thoughts and everything happens when it should happen.

6) Anything to add? Not at this stage

[ty0]

Hi Isobel,

You've been confirmed by the other guides :)

Some additional information and resources:
First of all, there will be a message from Nerina or someone in admin arriving in your inbox. Let me know if you do not spot it.

Your username will change from green to blue. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

If you're interested in guiding, you can do that. I've found it both fun and useful :)

Also there are some Zoom meetings that can be helpful. Meetups where people being guided and guides meet to share experience and enquire together
Vince Shubert runs 2 or 3 meetups each week at various times to suit different time zones. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays in Europe. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule

If you want to continue our dialogue write to me at 27leetyler@gmail.com

You'll be added to the Facebook group "Unleashed" (if you want to) and you can contact me or others from there if you want to explore this stuff further. We've only touched the tip of the iceberg here and there's a lot more wonderful things to be discovered. It's been great working with you :)

Tyler