Seeing through the separate self

[Anastacia42]

Now try this:


Don't you remember the apple exercise?
How is "self" any different?

This one:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

[Poischiche71]

Hi Stacy,

Don't you remember the apple exercise?

I saw it in another thread but did not do it yet.

How is "self" any different?

I'll report back after I do the exercise.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Thoughts infer or interpret a sound, image, smell, sensation, etc to be. Eg: I see a red form. Thought interprets/describes this to be an apple.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

No apple. Just color, form, taste, smell, and thoughts about an apple.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No. Only the color, form, taste, smell and thoughts about it. These are the ONLY things known. We infer, when we group these things together, that there is an "apple". Not so.

However, is an apple actually known?

No. Only direct experience is known.

I'm starting to see how a separate self is inferred like the idea of an apple. I'll let this sink in a little more. It's like I'm on to something but it has yet to fully be understood.

Thanks again Stacy,
Bernadett

[Anastacia42]

Wonderful, Bernadett. You're definitely onto something.

How does it FEEL to see there is no apple?

Watch this, please.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Loving,

[Poischiche71]

Hi Stacy,

How does it FEEL to see there is no apple?

It feels curious, a bit unsettling, interesting, exciting, new.

Thanks for the video link. I watched it numerous times. I do have desire. I think and try experiencing directly all day long. DE is very new to me. The conditioning to see the old way with labels is very strong and automatic. I spend my day looking at objects and trying to see them directly. With sounds it's easier but hearing + labeling are almost simultaneous. To go back to seeing/experiencing the way I did before I was 3 years old...I trust this happens when automatic labelling and a sense of "me" falls away.

Looking and checking....The one that looks and checks feels like it is me. The one that follows the directions to see directly, to look to check if there really is an experiencer, a thinker...the one that follows these directions feels like me.

Stacy, when there is an instruction and something "understands" it and starts to do it..what understands? How is understanding even possible? What is looking and checking if there is no me? Are these instructions given to awareness?

What even is awareness? How is it even possible that it exits? What I am seems completely unknowable.

I caught a thought today which started with I. It came with a certain feeling in the body. This process of an I thought and feeling seem to reinforce a "sentient being" which has these thoughts and feelings. Or more precisely, that I am the awakeness/consciousness that can somehow (mysteriously) be aware of both.

I have to add there is a real sense of wonder and awe at all of this.

Thanks again for your guidance and help.
Bernadett

[Anastacia42]

Hi Bernadett

I'm not here to answer philosophical questions. I'm here to point t Direct Experience and you're here to LOOK.

All of that thinking is distracting you from the truth that there's nothing & no one there.

LOOK

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Sure, you're aware, but awareness is not a "self."

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

You don't have to do them again, but LOOK. What do they point to? [/color]

Loving,

[Poischiche71]

Hi Stacy,

I'm not here to answer philosophical questions. I'm here to point t Direct Experience and you're here to LOOK.

Yes, understood. I won't ask you any more questions. I'll just answer the ones you send.

Does the sense of self have a location?

Yes, inside my head.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

No.

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

The answer is no.

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

No.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

None of these things.

What is found?

A sense of being alive and presence.

Thanks for your time,
Bernadett

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Sense of self is a thought.

Check & see.

What even is awareness? How is it even possible that it exits? What I am seems completely unknowable.

Yes - a total mystery.

Loving,

[Poischiche71]

Hi Stacy,

I'm experiencing a lot of resistance (physical, mental, and emotional) when looking for the sense of separate self and some strange unwillingness to look and see that it's just a thought. It's like a REALLY don't want to look and explore this. I thought I was, but experience says it's not true.

I'd rather focus on the "receiver" of experience until a shift occurs and the illusion of a separate self naturally fall away.

Anyway, you are asking me to look at the sense of separate self and see how it's a thought. If I can get past this surprising "no" that is coming up, I'll try again and get back to you.

Thanks again for your time,
Bernadett

[Anastacia42]

That is fine. Those are just more thoughts.

If you'd like to do the videos on fear, that might help. Or the videos on doubt.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=FEJQ8xkZL9c-QydK


https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp


If the "resistance " Sensation is a contraction, you're lying to yourself. Review the truth/lie pointer.


Either way, thanks for letting me know.

Loving,

[Poischiche71]

Hi Stacy,

I looked at the sense of separate self and feel like I am one because:

1) thoughts that arise in my head refer to "me" and are about "me" (there is consistency in my thinking and memories being about "me")

2) "I" have awareness, so I can report back on experiences the "I" seems to have.

3) "I" have a body and feel like "I" am located in the head.

4)" I" have sensations (and some, when combined with thought- labels, lead to emotions)

However,
1) Thoughts referring to an "I", do not necessarily mean an "I" exist, just like the thoughts about an "apple" don't mean an "apple" exists. I'm just conditioned to believe "I" sentences refer to an actually "me". They are just "i" sentences and don't have to mean there is a "me".
The consistency of the content of thoughts, memories, etc even though they are only thoughts, also provide a convincing story of a self...just a story...just thoughts.... I still find myself bonded to these regularly so "i" sentences go unchallenged but some space is staring to arise.

2) Awareness can directly experience without a need to add "I". I have experienced this .

3) Feeling like I am in the body or head is just another feeling...there can be a sense of viewpoint (I am looking from my eyes from this place in the room to that place), but this sense can still exist without an "I" being positioned here. The "i" sense is a little sticky here still....

4) Sensations also can arise and fall away without an "i" - like the 10min exercise which felt truer without the "i am" added in front of the sentences...."verbing" felt more true.

Will try to look and feel more into it again tomorrow.

Have a good evening,
Bernadett

[Anastacia42]

Try to LOOK, not think.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Keep me posted, if you will.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference and I'll give you the information on that. Vincechas one that I b think starts in 20 minutes


There are 3 meetings.

Vince Shubert runs one on the weekends. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule

Loving

[Poischiche71]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks so much for the links to the groups. I'll look into them and see what will work.

I'm trying to LOOK not think.

It's too soon to report back to you. I need to examine my experience more closely to see what is actually there.

I'll be back tomorrow.

Thanks again for your time,
Bernadett

[Anastacia42]

That's great. When you're ready.

Loving

[Poischiche71]

Hi Stacy,

Today I spent some time noticing how thoughts work in hopes of seeing how the separate self is just a story..just something referred to in the content of thoughts but not found anywhere in direct experience.

This is what I observed today...
1) thought "Should I go eat something now, or later? "
2) eyes look at the time
3) thought " It's too early to eat."

Is really just:
1) thought 1
2) eyes looking at the clock and registering the time
3) thought 2

If anything, I was just observing all this happen. I was not choosing to register hunger, deciding to look at the clock, nor choosing the next thought of "it's too early to eat." The thought " I'm hungry and don't care what time it is" could have also arisen.

Language has a real way of reinforcing this illusion of self- the thinker, chooser, etc. And the way we learn to "ask ourselves questions" seems to imply "someone" there to answer :) It's a little strange to really see thoughts in this way. How they are JUST thoughts and don't arise on behalf of an actual self.

I read in the Gateless Gatecrashers the example of Santa. Of how we were told he was real and reinforced, so we believed in him until one day we saw he was just a story. I can see how the separate sense of self could have been formed in much the same way. It's also reinforced the same way, even by the content of our own thoughts.

I feel like I still have lot to see through.

Have a good evening,
Bernadett