Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

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treelight
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby treelight » Sun Aug 04, 2024 4:07 am

Hi, Magdalena!
Well, the way I see it, emotions, particularly when strong, make you alert to a story that’s running. When there’s no story, what’s there to get emotional about?

Here’s something I’m noticing and finding interesting the past day or so. I am not buying into thought as much as when we first began talking, and as a result, my mind has been more quiet. But there are still stories being believed in without thought running. It’s almost like an automatic thing happening. Assumptions, I guess? Hidden beliefs or things I need to look into? I understand (limitedly) that there is no one to look into it, but for the sake of the things we are looking into together, what do you think about story being bought into when thought isn’t present?
Yes, spot on, this is what happens when we buy into a story.
The body responds, and more story follows, then more bodily response... - and before you know it, you've got a nice vicious circle running.

I feel like my mind has been creating less stories because they’re being seen through as false, but my body is still reacting to things as if a story is being believed. I hope this and what I wrote above make sense and convey what I mean.
Have you noticed that “anxiety” is also a story, i.e. a mental label that we are so used to applying to certain bodily sensations, such as nausea, contracted stomach, faster heartbeat, sweating hands, and the like?

Yes. I have noticed this before and am noticing right now. I will say, though, it’s almost like there’s an overlay of resistance to certain feelings, which makes them feel inherently bad. For example, dread. I know how to intellectually break down dread into its different parts (uneasiness, tension, fear), but the body naturally resists, the same way as if you touch a hot flame and jerk your hand back. Some things don’t feel pleasant and that seems to be a fact; no matter how much I try to apply the knowledge that every sensation is neutral in an absolute way.


A side note, unrelated from what we’ve talked about above:
I feel like I’m missing something. That’s just thoughts and a story — a belief that’s been there for long enough that it feels present with me a lot of the time. But I also think my mind just doesn’t want to accept the reality of all of this. I don’t want to “wake up” and still be a sad person, to have life continue the same way. But Jesus, how many stories are in the last sentence alone?

I don’t have a choice, this thing will be taken to “the end” (I don’t mean a literal end, just whatever we’re doing here) but I’m trying to shake any cobwebs that could be keeping me stuck from seeing this thing clearly.

Thank you! 🙏

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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:53 am

Hello, Celina,
there are still stories being believed in without thought running. It’s almost like an automatic thing happening. Assumptions, I guess? Hidden beliefs or things I need to look into?
Sounds like it. Not to mention the fact that mind doesn’t need words to spin its stories. It can do its job by means of images alone. But we’re still drawn into this, and responding as if it was real – and it’s an automatic thing – bodily/physiological (often feels like this to me) – habitual – you name it.

That there is no one to look into it is also true, in the sense that whatever mind presents, including the sense of “I” who needs to do anything, is mere fabrication, and needs to be seen through when appropriate.

I know how to intellectually break down dread into its different parts (uneasiness, tension, fear)…
That’s not terribly helpful, is it? I mean it’s like multiplying labels on top on other labels and so on.

Some things don’t feel pleasant and that seems to be a fact; no matter how much I try to apply the knowledge that every sensation is neutral in an absolute way.
It’s not really about knowledge (i.e. information). It boils down to simply seeing that bodily sensations (contracted stomach, sweating hands, trembling voice, etc.) are nothing more than what they are (i.e. contracted stomach, sweating hands, trembling voice, etc.) and calling them “dread”, “anxiety”, etc. is basically applying conceptual labels.
Please look into this and check out for yourself.

If you didn’t know the labels “dread”, “anxiety” and so had no "negative" associations, etc. – would the sensations still be classed as such?
Or would they remain simply certain sensations (contracted stomach, sweating hands, trembling voice, etc.)? Neutral, completely innocent of what is being ascribed to them?

I also think my mind just doesn’t want to accept the reality of all of this.
It sure doesn’t LOL
I don’t want to “wake up” and still be a sad person, to have life continue the same way.
Then “wake up” and be a happy person. What’s holding you? You are in control, aren’t you?
But Jesus, how many stories are in the last sentence alone?
LOL LOL LOL

I don’t have a choice, this thing will be taken to “the end” (I don’t mean a literal end, just whatever we’re doing here) but I’m trying to shake any cobwebs that could be keeping me stuck from seeing this thing clearly.
“This thing” will go wherever it needs to go, and what we are doing here is no indicator of anything. Shaking the cobwebs is a nice idea though. :-)

Thank you! 🙏
You’re welcome, and thank YOU. ;)
Warmly,
Magdalena


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treelight
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby treelight » Tue Aug 06, 2024 5:07 pm

Hi, Magdalena! Apologies for the delay on my response, I have not felt like I’ve had a lot to say. I have been going into the body and seeing what I can find without thought/stories running.

Sounds like it. Not to mention the fact that mind doesn’t need words to spin its stories. It can do its job by means of images alone. But we’re still drawn into this, and responding as if it was real – and it’s an automatic thing – bodily/physiological (often feels like this to me) – habitual – you name it.

Yes, definitely. It feels automatic, like a natural body process. Because of this, I have been going into my body and noticing what is there, without thinking about it. This feels calming, right, and interesting to me right now. There is a lot of aliveness to the body that has nothing to do with thought.

Also, I can’t imagine ever having a true problem if there’s no judgment of emotions. I’m realizing most of my “problems” are related to things I don’t want to feel.
That’s not terribly helpful, is it? I mean it’s like multiplying labels on top on other labels and so on.

No, labels aren’t helpful. Actually feeling seems to be helpful.
It’s not really about knowledge (i.e. information). It boils down to simply seeing that bodily sensations (contracted stomach, sweating hands, trembling voice, etc.) are nothing more than what they are (i.e. contracted stomach, sweating hands, trembling voice, etc.) and calling them “dread”, “anxiety”, etc. is basically applying conceptual labels.
Please look into this and check out for yourself.

This is what I’ve been looking into. I’m not sure I have a ton to say on this yet, because it has taken me some time to stop going into the mind. A lot of yesterday, I was trying to make a shift happen by asking questions like, “is there an inside to experience? Is there an outside to experience?” But that inquiry felt too much like grasping, as if I was trying to get something out of it. Out of sheer frustration, I stopped entertaining the mind and went into the body. That has felt right and good, because it has nothing to do with getting something “in the future”. I’m sure I’ll have more to say on this, but need to keep experimenting/noticing.
If you didn’t know the labels “dread”, “anxiety” and so had no "negative" associations, etc. – would the sensations still be classed as such?
Or would they remain simply certain sensations (contracted stomach, sweating hands, trembling voice, etc.)? Neutral, completely innocent of what is being ascribed to them?

That is what I’m finding out, for myself. You know what’s kind of interesting? I’m realizing that I would try to practice what you’re describing above, but I wouldn’t leave the mind. My mind would be like, “you know sensations are neutral, why can’t you relate to them that way!?!” but then I’d never want to actually touch those sensations. It was the minds way of keeping a “safe distance”.
Then “wake up” and be a happy person. What’s holding you? You are in control, aren’t you?

It doesn’t feel like I’m in control, but this question does help me.

The fear I have is just an illusion anyways, it isn’t appearing here and now. It’s just mind stuff, a cloud of fear.


I’m gonna keep chilling in the body, seeing what I can find here, smiling at what comes. :) Will report back soon 🩷

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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Tue Aug 06, 2024 6:55 pm

Hey, Celina,

This is beautiful. You're doing so fine. See, you don't need me or anyone else to tell you what to do. 😉

Simply relax into the "process", let it go where it goes, don't turn anything into a "practice", just allow life to take over.

Looking forward to hearing from you whenever you feel like sharing. 😊😊😊
Warmly,
Magdalena


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Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.

https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:55 am

Hello Celina,

How are you doing?
Warmly,
Magdalena


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.

https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)

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treelight
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby treelight » Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:29 pm

Hello Celina,

How are you doing?

Hello, Magdalena 🩷

Time feels very real for me in my lived experience. What I mean by this is that when I have thoughts about a future, those thoughts feel like they have some truth to them.

For example, I think to myself, “I want to check out this video tomorrow”, and then the ‘next day’, I find myself watching that video. When I break this down, there is no ‘tomorrow’, no ‘next moment’, etc. Those are just concepts. But they don’t feel like concepts when there is such strong patterning in life…things seem predictable. When I wake up on certain days, I know I have to go to work. There may not be a separate entity that has to go to work (I can’t find one), but timelines and plans seem very real to me. This is DEFINITELY one of my strongest sticking points right now and I’d love to discuss it with you. Thank you for reaching out 🙏

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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:17 am

What is "time" when there's no thinking about it?
Warmly,
Magdalena


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treelight
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby treelight » Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:47 am

What is "time" when there's no thinking about it?
When I ask myself that question, things feel a bit strange or hazy. It makes it seem as if everything is just one endless moment, for lack of a better way to describe it. Everything feels like it “slows down” a little.

When thoughts appear about tomorrow (future), I start believing in time again. But this is making me realize that thoughts have to be present and believed in for time to feel like it exists. I will notice this more.

I wish I had more to share right now, but everything is confusing me at the moment. I’m still fighting with my mind and I don’t want to be. I wish I could drop thought altogether, I want to stop believing in it. There have been so many times I have had a shift inside where it felt like all thought had been seen through, and a week later, I’m back into buying into the mind and its stories.

Sometimes it feels like I’ve thought about all of this so much that I’m gonna drive myself bonkers trying to figure out something that has nothing to do with thought in the first place. It’s like I know mind is in the wrong direction but it still has its hooks in me.

I go back and forth, pulling at different threads — it’s like I can see that I need just ONE of the things to collapse — if I could see there’s no time, I’d see there’s no past, future, or present (just thoughts/concepts). If I could see that thoughts are just noise, the feeling of a doer may go away. If the feeling of the doer goes away, etc etc. I just need one domino to fall so that they all can fall.

I hope this stream of consciousness is helpful and okay. Maybe some things I’m not seeing will be revealed.

Much thanks to you 🙏🩷

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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:22 am

Hello Celina,


Thanks for that stream of consciousness. ;-)

When I ask myself that question, things feel a bit strange or hazy. It makes it seem as if everything is just one endless moment, for lack of a better way to describe it. Everything feels like it “slows down” a little.
Good.

When thoughts appear about tomorrow (future), I start believing in time again. But this is making me realize that thoughts have to be present and believed in for time to feel like it exists. I will notice this more.
Yes. “Time” may be a human-made concept, but as such it has a role to play.

There’s no reason to expect that once this is seen, you won’t be able to know it’s a Monday today, so you’re working, or it’s a Saturday and so you’re partying tonight. That “feeling like it exists” is simply a reference to the convention that we accept for practical reasons, but does it mean it is real?

I wish I had more to share right now, but everything is confusing me at the moment. I’m still fighting with my mind and I don’t want to be. I wish I could drop thought altogether, I want to stop believing in it.
Good. Not comfortable, I agree, but good. ;-)
Remember the different techniques for how to approach thought we talked about? Isn’t this a perfect drunk-at-a-bus-stop moment? ;-)

There have been so many times I have had a shift inside where it felt like all thought had been seen through, and a week later, I’m back into buying into the mind and its stories.
What can I say? Grin and bear it. ;-)
There is no reason to expect that it’s possible to see through “all thought” once and for all.

… if I could see there’s no time, I’d see there’s no past, future, or present (just thoughts/concepts). If I could see that thoughts are just noise, the feeling of a doer may go away. If the feeling of the doer goes away, etc etc. I just need one domino to fall so that they all can fall.
All that is your expectations, i.e. wishing to control what's happening.

Imagine you’d never heard about “no time”, “no doer”, “no self” etc. How would you be without all that “noise”?

Much thanks to you 🙏🩷
Thank you too, and do write what comes up. :-)
Warmly,
Magdalena


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.

https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)

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treelight
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby treelight » Wed Aug 14, 2024 3:22 am

Hello, Magdalena,

I do not mean to skip over the questions in your last post, but I am writing you now just a few minutes after something has clicked.

I was sitting in my recliner after work, feeling very defeated. My partner went into the other room to play guitar and I decided to “meditate”, but it wasn’t actual meditation. It was more like closing my eyes and focusing on how tired this spiritual search has made me.

My mind started doing inquiry and it was coming from a different place? It was almost like there was a true attitude of “enough is enough, this needs to be over with”. I started looking into free will and it was like I saw something I’d pondered a million times but never saw before.


It’s not JUST that I don’t create or choose my thoughts, which I had seen before. It’s that I don’t create or choose which thoughts that arise, and there is no one or nothing behind that. I can’t say I know that, because what I’m seeing right now is that a concept can’t jump into this conversation and claim to know anything. Like…(god, this is hard to put into words what I’m seeing right now) If I were to say what I’m seeing, that would just be thought, and what I’m seeing is that there is no “director” to thought. There’s no one or nothing behind it.

Thought can come in and talk about waking up, but there’s no “entity” behind thoughts to get awakened, so who’s looking for it?

Maybe more will come and I’ll add to this thread if it does, but I wanted to write this out to you now.

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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Wed Aug 14, 2024 6:44 am

Dear Celina,

This is great - thank you for sharing. 😊😊😊
Just keep going - and sharing.
Looking forward to your next post.
Warmly,
Magdalena


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.

https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)

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treelight
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby treelight » Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:00 pm

Dear Celina,

This is great - thank you for sharing. 😊😊😊
Just keep going - and sharing.
Looking forward to your next post.


Hi, Magdalena 🩷🩷,

Things have been very interesting, calm, and common-place since I wrote to you about what was realized.

This is hard to talk about, because the main thing that has been seen is that there is no one here to see it. A thought can’t come into this conversation and claim to be awake. That would just be a thought. I can’t say no one is here, because that would be more thoughts/just an idea.

It’s like I’m tracing thoughts back to their source and realizing they have no source. They just appear, and what they appear TO can’t be spoken about as a concept. I don’t know what or who I am and that doesn’t seem problematic, because I can see I’m not what I thought I was.

I’m not even trying to wake up today (which isn’t normal for this character). It has been seen that it would be a total waste of time, because a thought can’t wake up. When I look at all of the time I’ve spent trying to improve the “person”…those thoughts weren’t referring to anything 😭🤣

Time does seem to feel the same to me. I am having thoughts about the future and whatnot. But I’m not confused about who is doing the thinking. That is not me, and so it doesn’t seem as important in general? It’s like a story is continuing for no one.

I’m so fascinated. Truly, I can’t put into words how fascinating this is to “me”. I have done nothing for years but try to see this clearly and now that it’s being seen, it’s like… how the hell did I dance around this for so long!?!?

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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:39 am

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Welcome to the club!
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Warmly,
Magdalena


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.

https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)

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treelight
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby treelight » Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:42 pm

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Welcome to the club!
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Wow… 😭🩷

Is it really this simple? Everything is exactly as it was, but there’s no director to what’s happening. I can’t believe this…

I’m so grateful to you for helping me 🙏

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Magdalena
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Re: Dedicated Seeker Ready For The Push

Postby Magdalena » Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:06 pm

Hey Celina,
Is it really this simple?
🙂🙃🙂 Isn't it? 🙃🙂🙃
I’m so grateful to you for helping me 🙏
I didn't do anything, did I? Or do you think there is some kind of "director" here? 🤪
Warmly,
Magdalena


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.

https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)


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