If your ability to think was taken away, would you be able to ‘intend’ to do anything?
Yes, I think so. Thought and intention seem to be two separate processes. It's as if they were both somehow "arising" and being perceived in consciousness but it doesn't seem like one depends on the other.
Therefore isn’t intention just a labelled thought? What is it a label for?
It seems like "intention" is the mind attempting to explain how movement happens around the idea of an "I", like a story the mind creates as to how moving the body happens (it moved because "I" intended for it to happen). But when I look, there doesn't seem to be anything "intending" anything separate from the act itself. So it doesn't seem to be a labor for anything that exists in reality.
Is the word ‘Self’ just a label?
Yes, it's just a label that the mind attaches to a bunch of processes that are occurring.
These ‘instructions’ would be thoughts right?
Yeah, I guess. I was trying to point at the "thing" or the "process" that makes movement or "intending" possible. I.e., there's something that happens that then causes my hand to move. It doesn't just move on its own. Like an acting, or a mental "willing".
Do thoughts just come and go and come and go and come and go?
Yes...
“There must be a controller”...isn’t this just a thought??
Yes, definitely this is a thought and not based on DE.
You are assuming that there is a controller. Look in DE and describe this controller for me please.
No controller can be found. Just the very entrenched belief that there is a controller making everything happen. There's a kind of vertigo and a fear when confronting this fact.
What do you THINK would like the idea of THINKING that it can control anything?
I don't understand this question.
When you are walking is walking just happening?
I don't know... I seem to be on the edge of an abyss when confronting this question. On the one hand, it is clear that I cannot find a "controller" or a "me" independent from the action itself that's arising. On the other hand... I'm terrified of what it would mean if actions are "just happening". Does that mean my organism is just blindly reacting on its own to life? Like a robot or an animal acting purely on instinct? —I realize that these are just thoughts. But there seems to be this voice in my head that starts protesting very loudly when I consider the possibility of action without a self. Where would freedom/ responsibility lie then? —again, just thoughts, thoughts... They pull me very strongly into the "necessity" of an I. When I go into that fear, there seems to be a fear that without a self to control movement and willing, as the center of freedom and responsibility, life wouldn't make sense —thoughts, thoughts, thoughts... I think the self is scared to die! It's scared of being seen as an illusion! And it's trying to protect itself by telling me all this. But... what if there's nothing that could even die in the first place? What if "intending" is just happening without the need of a self to be the "intender"? Ahhhh... so close to the abyss!
When you are breathing is breathing just happening?
It... is... just... happening...
LOOK in DE and tell me: can you find something that is controlling these things?
No...
Is it possible that thoughts about a self are only thoughts about a self?
Yes... this seems to be the case...
Can you find thoughts about a self in DE?
Yes I can see them.
If thoughts come and go and there are sometimes gaps between thoughts does that mean that the ‘You’ ‘Me’ ‘I’ that you take yourself to be sometimes disappears?
If the "self" is constructed by thinking... then what happens to it when there's no thinking? But life is still happening... So life is different from that "self". So life doesn't need a "sense of self" in order to happen, because it goes on even without thinking. Yes, it seems like I'm constantly adding an "extra layer" to life by having thoughts of a self. Ahh. I just want to see the truth! I feel so close, so close... but it cannot be like this... there's a lot of resistance arising. Is it really that simple? Is all so simple? It seems so absurdly simple... so utterly obvious... it cannot be. It cannot be. I feel like I am one step away from falling into the abyss. There's a lot of emotions arising. I don't know what's going on.
What is ‘me-ness’ a label for? Look into DE for it and wait for an answer…NOT a labelled one….look for a KNOWING.
The "me-ness" seems to be a thought that is just referencing more thinking. There isn't anything in DE that has that label. Sensations and thoughts and even actions don't have any "me-ness" in them. It's just life happening. Life doesn't need any "me-ness" for it to happen. The me-ness that is labeled seems like a vicious cycle. It creates more thoughts about "me" which in turn create more "me-thinking" which in turn seem to validate the former, etc., etc. It's like a house of cards. Like a huge building built on... nothing.
When you saw your hand moving where were the sensations of ‘hand’ happening? Were they happening in your hand or were they happening in awareness, e.g. sensations arising?
In awareness. There's only "hand" as sensations in awareness.
Look at your hand in DE and start flipping it. Can you see a self in your Direct Experience controlling it?
I cannot. Just the thoughts of a self.
What does the label ‘Free will’ point towards?
Towards a thought. It's a thought that "this is how things are/should be". Not a direct experience.
Is agent just a label? When you look in DE can you find the thing that ‘agent’ is a label for?
It's a label, yes. No, I cannot find an "agent" in DE. Only thoughts about an agent.
...I feel like I'm one step away from... truth. But it feels dizzying and terrifying to keep going. It feels like everything is open before me. Like truth is blatantly obvious and staring at me in the face, but I'm still hesitating to acknowledge it. Like there's still a thread of resistance, of attachment to the old worldview because I don't know what will happen if it collapses.
Help!
