I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

[Truthfull]

In reverse,

No a thought cannot do anything. Attention can notice thought, not the other way around.

[Truthfull]

Attention just goes where it wants or is called. I don't control sensations or choices. Its all happening automatically. Thought can make the choice to put attention on sensations. But this feels like a magic show of thought saying look what I can do.
When I look for myself, their is just silence. silence does not control attention, sensations or choices.

Right.

This what you call "silence":

Is it separate from anything?

Is there any reason to call it "a self" or "me" rather then just "itself"/life?

Language devides the world in subjects, objects and verbs/actions. But does this what you call silence fit into any of that or is it outside description?

It feels like I need to use the mind to answer this. Silence just looks. The silence feels separate from everything. It seems to look through this body mind. It has no personal attributes but it seems to be the spring from where all is seen. It can really be described, more secedes silence, black, empty, pregnant, still, etc.with some relaxing, silence seems to be self aware.

[Elad]

Great looking regarding thought.

Regarding silence. Look at it some more. Look only at direct experience. Dont reference your own past experiences or the words of others.

Can you actually find the silence separate from anything and from thought?

Where is the dividing line?

Is there any reason to call this silence you/I rather then just silence?

Lets see how it goes.....


In any case, our only objective here is to clarify if there is a separate self in control of things.

Based on your answers sounds like it is seen that there is no separate self or I, except as a thought/label, and that you are not in control over anything. Is this true?

Answer freshly from looking now.

[Truthfull]

When I look directly, everything has silence in it, as it.
Only thought seems to divide it.
I feels like a thought appearing in silence. I feels directly like waves in silence.
The sense of I or thoughts come out of silence.
I dont control anything, but still feel separate.
I feel like a note being played in a piano.

[Elad]

When I look directly, everything has silence in it, as it.
Only thought seems to divide it.
I feels like a thought appearing in silence. I feels directly like waves in silence.
The sense of I or thoughts come out of silence.
I dont control anything, but still feel separate.
I feel like a note being played in a piano.

Okay. Again, sounds like it is clear to you I is a thought and there is no separate self in control.

As for "feeling separate" what is that? Look at it in direct experience.

Is there any self in it?

Is it anything more then a thought plus sensation?

Does the sensation in any way by itself say that it is separate?

[Elad]

Also, to be clear, this process cannot and should not numb or "off" the pain of separation that comes from insecure attachment, psychological trauma and neglect, and unhealthy or lacking relationships in the psychological and emotional sense. That would be like aiming to rip the eyes out so as not to see dark colors, so to speak. This process will only help clarify that these are all natural spontaneous processes without a separate self. Once that gets clear, it can naturally support taking steps to deal with these issues. That however is outside the focus of the work here. We will address it in the end once we talk about "aftercare" and post awakening support.

[Truthfull]

I feel separate or I am are thoughts. Self notices it. There are no obvious sensations to it. I don’t feel like the room or my hand. All seem other than me.

[Elad]

I feel separate or I am are thoughts. Self notices it. There are no obvious sensations to it. I don’t feel like the room or my hand. All seem other than me.

There are these thoughts described here. Our work here is not to do something about them.

What is this supposed self that notices these thoughts, that these thoughts supposedly describe?

Only direct experience.

[Truthfull]

The noticing and the thought arise together. Otherwise there is just silence. All this is thought after the fact.

[Elad]

[quote=Truthfull post_id=388303 time=1711047172 user_id=15814]
The noticing and the thought arise together. Otherwise there is just silence. All this is thought after the fact.
[/quote]

Great, quite clear.

So is there any separate self at all that is having these thoughts about separation or are there just thoughts of separation arising?

Again we are not here to change any of these thoughts, only to make clear that they dont belong to any separate self.

[Truthfull]

I was about to say, “I dont know”(another thought). Then realised that all thoughts create the sense of separation.

[Truthfull]

My brain hurts, I fell like I’m clapping with one hand. 😂. More thoughts.

[Elad]

My brain hurts, I fell like I’m clapping with one hand. 😂. More thoughts.

Exactly.

[Truthfull]

Let’s continue.

[Elad]

Here is a little reflection to support the process of looking only in direct experience and an exercise for today:



Coloured Socks

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.





Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities


Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back what is experienced.