Seeking direct experience into my true nature

[Elad]

Hi Elad

“ Fluid sense of self is what is all ready there.”
and (1) “seeing what is just there regardless of how it feels?”

This clarification really helps, thank you!

I agree, when attention and motivation goes to (1) seeing happens naturally and effortlessly.

I found that it requires very little or no effort actually & seems to result in a bigger energy shift or pull. Just seeing the current moment unfolding & letting it be, regardless of the intensity of the feeling. Almost stepping back & residing in the space behind the feeling.

Previously (2) was happening because I was probably more focused on reporting back and describing any changes as opposed to experience.

Thank you — I will give this some more time later

Beautiful, exactly. Just rest in the direct experience. And see what thoughts (as if) hide it or disturb it. Write me again when it feels like time. No hurry.

[alexeloka]

Lovely stuff…
Will do!

[Elad]

Lovely stuff…
Will do!

?

:)

[alexeloka]

Hey Elad :)

I’ve been meditation the past couple of days in this way: Having a very open/wide awareness, not getting distracted or trapped by the personal feelings/energy/movement. Letting everything flow & being as relaxed/transparent/natural as possible. I’ve been practising this in day to day activities where possible, not just whilst sitting.

It’s definitely getting deeper but again that’s based on a feeling or sensations.

I’m not sure what else to say right now tbh, hence the radio silence….

[Elad]

Hey Elad :)

I’ve been meditation the past couple of days in this way: Having a very open/wide awareness, not getting distracted or trapped by the personal feelings/energy/movement. Letting everything flow & being as relaxed/transparent/natural as possible. I’ve been practising this in day to day activities where possible, not just whilst sitting.

It’s definitely getting deeper but again that’s based on a feeling or sensations.

I’m not sure what else to say right now tbh, hence the radio silence….

Is there a separate self doing any of this? Is there a separate self at all? What is seen?

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

“ Is there a separate self doing any of this? Is there a separate self at all? What is seen?”

No. There’s just direct experience happening.

When I first read your message almost immediately everything crumbled down and went fluid & it felt there was no boundary for a moment or two. Then mind started to get involved and wanted to assess or judge the situation/sensation.

I know it’s a case of relaxing more and more into it. And I also know you can’t expand effort or try to do that. Guess I’m a bit frustrated because there was an instant when it felt like that fluidity was approaching one-ness…

[Elad]

Beautiful! It's happening. No need to do anything. Just notice again and again what is primal and what is just habitual thought extra. No need to make it go away. Here is an exercise to deepen the seeing:

[Elad]

Nature Exercise

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance? Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

No, it’s all just a-happening!

I loved the nature exercise but only touched on it today because I’ve been travelling & didn’t get much solo time. But definitely experienced that boundary line being blurred. Probably most when having a bath this evening and when my eyes were closed the movement of bath water — it was like there was no boundary between the sensation of external water outside and body sensation inside. Just total fluidity internal/external for a moment or two.

I’d like to mediate some more on the nature exercise tomorrow as well if that’s ok.

Will report back again.

Thanks!

[Elad]

Hi Elad

No, it’s all just a-happening!

I loved the nature exercise but only touched on it today because I’ve been travelling & didn’t get much solo time. But definitely experienced that boundary line being blurred. Probably most when having a bath this evening and when my eyes were closed the movement of bath water — it was like there was no boundary between the sensation of external water outside and body sensation inside. Just total fluidity internal/external for a moment or two.

I’d like to mediate some more on the nature exercise tomorrow as well if that’s ok.

Will report back again.

Thanks!

Lovely! Yes, for sure!

Also, look into this: Is the truth that there is no self or controlling agent dependent on experiencing oneness? Does this truth only exist when so-called conventional thought and functioning are not happening (which for most if not all of us they often, probably most often, do)?

Or is no self as true for normal thoughts and actions, when we look at where these come from, we see that there is no separate self controlling or choosing them?

[alexeloka]

nice…. No, you’re right, the truth or the no self or controlling agent is not driven by oneness. It’s all the time.

It feels like there is control of thoughts, actions, what words are said or what body movements etc happen. But after investigating it, all of that is also just happening on its own accord. The thoughts come up, I’m not choosing them. The actions happen instinctively or own their own. Or they are driven by thoughts (which it’s now clear to see) appear or occur on their own. There’s actually no complete autonomy over anything. It just happens….!

[Elad]

nice…. No, you’re right, the truth or the no self or controlling agent is not driven by oneness. It’s all the time.

It feels like there is control of thoughts, actions, what words are said or what body movements etc happen. But after investigating it, all of that is also just happening on its own accord. The thoughts come up, I’m not choosing them. The actions happen instinctively or own their own. Or they are driven by thoughts (which it’s now clear to see) appear or occur on their own. There’s actually no complete autonomy over anything. It just happens….!

Great!

"There’s actually no complete autonomy over anything"

Right! In a conventional sense we speak of things with or without autonomy, like you can lift your leg (do it to see) but you cannot lift the wall (do it to see), you can start talking and stop for a minute (try) but you cannot start beating the heart and stop it for a minute. These differences of control conventionally speaking will not go away.

1) However, on close inspection: is there a separate self that has any control whatsoever over any of it? Is there self that controls where there is "control conventionally speaking" and where there isn't?

2) Is there any confusion at this point? I think you might be ready for final questions. These are questions sometimes open more to clarify for me and you, and if not, three other guides review the answers to see if there is more to clarify.

[alexeloka]

Hi Elad

Thanks for clarifying the differences of control conventionally speaking. I understand.

“1) However, on close inspection: is there a separate self that has any control whatsoever over any of it? Is there self that controls where there is "control conventionally speaking" and where there isn't?”

I looked very closely and meditated on this. There’s no separate self controlling anything. There’s just energy. Thought forms out of nowhere, actions / movements happen of the back of that. But tracing it back there’s no separate self behind all this controlling it. There’s a witness but nothing separate inside/outside. The witness witnesses it all. Between the inside/out there’s a moving boundary which appears as denser energy which at times (like the experience the other day) almost completely thins out into fluidity.

2) no confusion. I’m ready.

Thanks

[Elad]

Beautiful! Please answer the following questions in one message. Make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for other guides to track what questions you are answering individually. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After receiving your answers maybe we will inquire more together or maybe 3 other guides will have questions for you. After that process you and I will talk about onwards, lovely opportunities to stay in touch, exchange and explore with "like-minded/hearted". Remember, answer only from direct experience, not from conviction or past experience. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.





1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER:

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

ANSWER:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER:

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER:

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER:

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER:

8) Anything to add?

ANSWER

[alexeloka]

Grand. I’ll read properly tomorrow (probably evening) and get back to you before the end of the day.

Thanks for your continued questions & support!