Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:36 am

Okay, good. That's the most important tool you can learn here.

Now, try this:


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.

Image

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.


Or this one?
Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?


LOOK. What do they point to? [/color]

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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inthewoods
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby inthewoods » Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:28 pm

Hi Stacy,
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

However, is an apple actually known?
OK, with an apple on the table in front of me:

I can see a globe of red and green.
I can feel that it is hard and smooth
I can taste it when I bite into it. The taste is indescribable without moving into thought and I can label it 'apple'.
I can smell it. It has a complex smell that is indescribable without moving into thought, but I can label it apple
It has no sound.
I have thoughts about it.

When I analyze this thing I can know a taste, a smell, a sensation and a color and form but I cannot combine these things that I know to know the apple as a whole without using the content of thoughts. I do not know the apple.
Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?
I can feel a sense of self. It is mostly situated in the top of the inside of my head, like at the top inch or two of my brain, sensed more often from the middle to the front near my eyes.

It doesn't seem to have an exact shape. It is formless and it also moves. Sometimes it feels like it is inside my head and sometimes it feels like it is hovering a couple of inches above my head.

The sense of self communicates to distract attention away from direct experience. The sense of self seems to be a bit of a shape-shifter. When I focus closely on an area that feels like a sense of self, a thought will appear like a lightning bolt. This thought feels like a thought and also like me at the same time. It is very hard to resist following this thought. This distraction thought is always coming from an area that is somewhere outside of the area where I had been feeling the sense of self. It pulls me away to look at another area.

The sense of self is made of thoughts.

Best,

John

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 12, 2024 12:44 am

Hi,

I read & reply on my phone.

I don't want to read a chunk of questions followed by a chunk of answers. Please. One at a time. Typos will be even more courteous when we share your "fina" answers with others.

Thank you,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 12, 2024 12:49 am

This... not typos. Speaking of. :)
When I analyze this thing
No analyzing.

LOOK

Remember ...

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that



We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..



Direct or Actual Experience is



Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)



Please watch this:

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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inthewoods
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby inthewoods » Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:06 am

Hi Stacy,
I don't want to read a chunk of questions followed by a chunk of answers. Please. One at a time. Typos will be even more courteous when we share your "fina" answers with others.
Ok, I will make sure to answer questions individually from here on out.

I watched the video and I am very willing to try to stick with DE to answer questions.

Thanks,

John

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:14 am

Thank you.
I cannot combine these things that I know to know the apple as a whole without using the content of thoughts. I do not know the apple.
Yes.
The sense of self is made of thoughts.
Yes. That simple.

Now try this:


Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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inthewoods
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby inthewoods » Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:55 am

Hi Stacy,
How is the movement controlled?
The movement isn't controlled. It just happens.
Does a thought control it?
No, a thought does not control it.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
It happens independently. No controller can be located.
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
The hand just turns over. There is no decision point when a thought made the decision to turn the hand over.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Nothing chose. The right hand just turned over.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
There is no separate individual or anything that is choosing to turn the palm.

Best,

John

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:25 am

Yes. All true.

Let's do body, time & memory, then try "final" questions.


Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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inthewoods
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby inthewoods » Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:05 pm

Hi Stacy,
Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
It cannot be known how tall the body is. It cannot be known if the body has weight. The body seems to have a weight, but it cannot be known if, for example, the body is pressing down on the chair or the chair is pressing up into the body.

In actual experience, the body has no shape, form or volume. Flashes of sensations are felt in different locations, not at the same time. In any one moment a whole body cannot be felt. In actual experience there is no continuous body or a particular shape or volume.
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No. No boundary between the body and clothing or the body and the chair can be found.
Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
There is no inside or outside. There is only the direct experience of any given moment. There is nothing more than this direct experience so there is nothing that could be outside of it or nothing for direct experience to be inside of.
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
The word body refers to sensations from within our physical form. The actual experience of the body is quickly moving independent sensations in different locations, not felt simultaneously. The actual experience of the body is that there is no coherent body, just lots of areas of sensation, that don't seem to be connected, that are felt sequentially.

Best,
John

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:42 am

Yes. John. You've got it. How about Time?

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time? Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Loving,
Loving,,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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inthewoods
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby inthewoods » Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:36 am

Hi Stacy,
But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time? Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
There is only now but it is not moving. There is no past or future in direct experience, but when you look to find a moving present, you can't find it either because when you try to find where it begins it's already no longer in direct experience. You can't find a beginning so you can't find a moving present and you can't find the future or the past, so you can only find a timeless now.
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
This present moment or now is completely still.
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
You cannot find a point where it began.
How long does the ‘now’ last?
It lasts forever.
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
It has no start and no end.
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
The now never becomes the past.
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
There is no past in actual experience.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There are only thoughts about time.

Best,

John

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:00 pm

Yes, exactly.

Last one:

url]Memory Exercise
[/url]
Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?

What is the memory ‘made of’?

WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?


~ Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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inthewoods
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby inthewoods » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:22 pm

Hi Stacy,
Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?
A memory is a thought.
What is the memory ‘made of’?

A memory is made of thought.
WHEN does the memory appear?
The memory appears in the now.
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
There is no difference except that memory thoughts tend to be compelling and hard to resist.
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
It is not known
Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
Just a thought.
WHEN does the future thought appear?
It appears in the now.
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
There is no difference except that future thoughts tend to be compelling and hard to resist following.
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
It is not known.
Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
They are exactly the same.
If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?
It cannot be known if a thought is about the future or the past, or even if it is a fantasy about the past, present or future.

Best,

John

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Anastacia42
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:45 pm

Excellent.

Just note that
compelling and hard to resist following.
Be aware that these are also just more thoughts. Right?

Would you like to answer "final" questions now?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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inthewoods
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Re: Can't tell if 'I'm' there yet

Postby inthewoods » Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:52 am

Hi Stacy,
Just note that
"compelling and hard to resist following."
Be aware that these are also just more thoughts. Right?
Yes, for sure.
Would you like to answer "final" questions now?
Sounds great. I am excited to get started. Are these different in some way to what we've been doing up to now?

Best,

John


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