Newbie to LU, just registered, looking for a guide

[echoecho]

Hi Elad,

Before we start, I just wanted to bring something up relating to the discovery yesterday that doing and choice were found to be automatic or that I wasn't in control of these things happening. As I said that was quite a revelation to witness that for myself in my own experience. But today I seem have normalized that, and very nonchalantly taken that to be the new normal - like me/my mind says "ok you caught me red-handed! I've been fooling you, and that is completely true, but no big deal right?!" and otherwise it's business as usual...

Both simultaneously can't be true - that the mind/self isn't behind decisions but is still in control. But it's acting like it still is...if you get what I mean?

Just wanted to mention that, because although I was wholeheartedly caught off guard by what you showed me....today that seems to be yesterday's news, and mind/self has found some way to incorporate that, side step, ignore, or just work around it completely!

Anyway, on to today's observations:

1) Try look also look at some of the things we conventionally associate with effort and self. Like calculate what is 341 times 478? Look how that happens. Is there any self or choice in thinking through something that needs effort and deliberation? Or does such effort, focus and deliberation also happen by itself when it does?

I couldn't work that sum out in my head, so I wrote it down, and worked through it. It did take a bit of effort, but I just did the maths - and couldn't see what you meant by self or choice coming into it. The maths just happened plain and simple...multiplying, adding. I didn't see any self coming into it - what would happen if self was coming into it?

I think i'm not so clear on this one - because I did sit there working out 1 times 8 is 8, 4 times 8 is 32, put 2 carry 3...etc.. i mean there was no mental commentary - and I guess it just happened...I wasn't forcing anything. It felt pretty hands off and was going along - but I wouldn't say I was so hands off that I could have done 2 long multiplications at the same time, or read a book while I was doing the multiplication! But I guess it was pretty much happening smoothly without intervention or active control on my part.

2) Try if possible to think about a choice or issue that can traditionally be emotionally charged or where ambivalence and doubt tends to come up. Invite it into awareness as much as possible and allow doubt and ambivalence to be there if it is, and not if it is not. Either case, is it a choice? Is there more "self", any "self", in things that people conventionally might call "being stuck in our head/our selves/ etc"?

I had the same problem with this as the above example. I'm not sure what the question means exactly about having self involved. I couldn't think of any situation where I regularly feel ambivalence or doubt, but I do feel emotionally charged when on the highway and other people are driving dangerously. It happens a lot so I'm aware of my reaction, and I watch it coming and going....but it's not a choice either - I can quite impassively see it as it arises. it peaks then fades. There is no choice in this happening. If you ask is there any self here, do you mean if i am unconsciously furious? No, but there is anger, and I guess I'd say I was angry (consciously!) - however impassive or Zen I try to be about it! and if "I am angry" I guess there is self here? I'm not sure.

I've heard people say things like no one is angry...I have no idea what that means, and I wouldn't say that at all. But I guess I don't wholly think "I am angry" either. Neither feels true to me - anger comes, then goes - but I don't necessarily get caught up in it, though I do feel an intense wave of feeling/emotion.

Sorry if I'm not answering clearly, but I don't completely grasp the question.

[Elad]

"Before we start, I just wanted to bring something up relating to the discovery yesterday that doing and choice were found to be automatic or that I wasn't in control of these things happening. As I said that was quite a revelation to witness that for myself in my own experience. But today I seem have normalized that, and very nonchalantly taken that to be the new normal - like me/my mind says "ok you caught me red-handed! I've been fooling you, and that is completely true, but no big deal right?!" and otherwise it's business as usual...

Both simultaneously can't be true - that the mind/self isn't behind decisions but is still in control. But it's acting like it still is...if you get what I mean?

Just wanted to mention that, because although I was wholeheartedly caught off guard by what you showed me....today that seems to be yesterday's news, and mind/self has found some way to incorporate that, side step, ignore, or just work around it completely! "


Exactly. Its like seeing through an optical illusion. You now know it is an illusion and you can always focus to see verify it. And yet the illusion keeps working when not attended too. It's not a delusion any more - an illusion believed to be reality.



"I couldn't work that sum out in my head, so I wrote it down, and worked through it. It did take a bit of effort, but I just did the maths - and couldn't see what you meant by self or choice coming into it. The maths just happened plain and simple...multiplying, adding. I didn't see any self coming into it - what would happen if self was coming into it?

I think i'm not so clear on this one - because I did sit there working out 1 times 8 is 8, 4 times 8 is 32, put 2 carry 3...etc.. i mean there was no mental commentary - and I guess it just happened...I wasn't forcing anything. It felt pretty hands off and was going along - but I wouldn't say I was so hands off that I could have done 2 long multiplications at the same time, or read a book while I was doing the multiplication! But I guess it was pretty much happening smoothly without intervention or active control on my part.

2) Try if possible to think about a choice or issue that can traditionally be emotionally charged or where ambivalence and doubt tends to come up. Invite it into awareness as much as possible and allow doubt and ambivalence to be there if it is, and not if it is not. Either case, is it a choice? Is there more "self", any "self", in things that people conventionally might call "being stuck in our head/our selves/ etc"?

I had the same problem with this as the above example. I'm not sure what the question means exactly about having self involved. I couldn't think of any situation where I regularly feel ambivalence or doubt, but I do feel emotionally charged when on the highway and other people are driving dangerously. It happens a lot so I'm aware of my reaction, and I watch it coming and going....but it's not a choice either - I can quite impassively see it as it arises. it peaks then fades. There is no choice in this happening. If you ask is there any self here, do you mean if i am unconsciously furious? No, but there is anger, and I guess I'd say I was angry (consciously!) - however impassive or Zen I try to be about it! and if "I am angry" I guess there is self here? I'm not sure.

I've heard people say things like no one is angry...I have no idea what that means, and I wouldn't say that at all. But I guess I don't wholly think "I am angry" either. Neither feels true to me - anger comes, then goes - but I don't necessarily get caught up in it, though I do feel an intense wave of feeling/emotion.

Sorry if I'm not answering clearly, but I don't completely grasp the question."

You are being quite clear, and you not fully understanding my formulations ended up being an advantage, cause it showed you stay with direct experience, also when it seemingly is not clear what is said!

The point of these two exercises was just to show that also when there is some kind of what we conventionally call dificulty or challange, weather mental (math) or emotional (road) or both (some complex life situation), there is no self. None of what comes up is self. People create idealized fantasies that when you see through the self illusion there will not be challange any more, there will not be situation where effort most be applied or socalled dark emotions experienced. As you expressed this is not the case, and all that happens without self.


Is this clear? Any questions?


There is no separate you in control or choosing or acting and there never has been - how do you react when you read that?

[echoecho]

You are being quite clear, and you not fully understanding my formulations ended up being an advantage, cause it showed you stay with direct experience, also when it seemingly is not clear what is said!

The point of these two exercises was just to show that also when there is some kind of what we conventionally call dificulty or challange, weather mental (math) or emotional (road) or both (some complex life situation), there is no self. None of what comes up is self. People create idealized fantasies that when you see through the self illusion there will not be challange any more, there will not be situation where effort most be applied or socalled dark emotions experienced. As you expressed this is not the case, and all that happens without self.


Is this clear? Any questions?

Still not 100% clear. I'm not really sure what "no self" is to be honest. By the definition of not being challenged any more, not having to apply effort, or experiencing dark emotions - I'd say on a sliding scale of 0 to 100, those things are definitely getting rarer and rarer.....but not at zero. I haven't experienced any dark emotions of any kind in a long while, I am challenged often, but I don't feel challenged or see it as such, and as for effort - you've shown me the effort happens without me having to do anything.

But I am hesitant to say there's no absolutely no self, because today I reacted to a silly thing very fast. So I still have triggers in the right circumstances.

There is no separate you in control or choosing or acting and there never has been - how do you react when you read that?

When I first read that I feel immense relief!

Then a part of me says "if only". What I mean by that is intellectually I accept it, and with all my being I accept it - but it doesn't feel fully accepted somehow. Like it has not been fully realized. You've shown me, and I have seen it with my own eyes but........

Hmm at this point I feel like I'm almost throwing up a roadblock in my own path.

Then I lastly say "why not?" and I can't a reason why it's not true...

[Elad]

You are being quite clear, and you not fully understanding my formulations ended up being an advantage, cause it showed you stay with direct experience, also when it seemingly is not clear what is said!

The point of these two exercises was just to show that also when there is some kind of what we conventionally call dificulty or challange, weather mental (math) or emotional (road) or both (some complex life situation), there is no self. None of what comes up is self. People create idealized fantasies that when you see through the self illusion there will not be challange any more, there will not be situation where effort most be applied or socalled dark emotions experienced. As you expressed this is not the case, and all that happens without self.


Is this clear? Any questions?

Still not 100% clear. I'm not really sure what "no self" is to be honest. By the definition of not being challenged any more, not having to apply effort, or experiencing dark emotions - I'd say on a sliding scale of 0 to 100, those things are definitely getting rarer and rarer.....but not at zero. I haven't experienced any dark emotions of any kind in a long while, I am challenged often, but I don't feel challenged or see it as such, and as for effort - you've shown me the effort happens without me having to do anything.

But I am hesitant to say there's no absolutely no self, because today I reacted to a silly thing very fast. So I still have triggers in the right circumstances.

There is no separate you in control or choosing or acting and there never has been - how do you react when you read that?

When I first read that I feel immense relief!

Then a part of me says "if only". What I mean by that is intellectually I accept it, and with all my being I accept it - but it doesn't feel fully accepted somehow. Like it has not been fully realized. You've shown me, and I have seen it with my own eyes but........

Hmm at this point I feel like I'm almost throwing up a roadblock in my own path.

Then I lastly say "why not?" and I can't a reason why it's not true...

No-self is not a thing, it is not a state. It is just words. What do these words point to? Could be different in different contexts. In the context of this investigation it means seeing clearly that no subject behind actions and feelings and thoughts can be found AND that whatever we do find (actions, sensations, thoughts etc) we will find no self behind them, no one in control of them or truly choosing them.

If by no-self we meant an ongoing state of no foolish behavior, no confusion, no dark emotion, no self thoughts and stories happening, no habitual unhelpful behaviors etc - if we meant that, then nobody I know (and I know many in this "field") whould have ever "achieved no self". What we might call seeing through unhelpful beliefs and letting go of unhelpful patterns continue to happen in natural organic processes "alone and together with others" (conventionally speaking) after this. It is questionable it ever ends as long as we are humans (conventionally speaking).

1) Does this make sense to you?

Sounds to me like you imagine some "done forever", which is one an imagination and expectation for you, and that gets in the way. In any case, whatever expectation is there or not, whatever doubt is there or not, or comes, or goes, etc. -

2) LOOK - is there a self controlling or choosing any of that? Are any of these thoughts and feelings "a self"? Or they are just thoughts and feelings?

Please watch this video: https://youtu.be/z2g4qaDGpTU?si=wwDMLnZ-X2N-ZRXc

3) In direct experience, not in imaginations and habitual beliefs, is there a separate self anywhere? How does it feel?

[echoecho]

No-self is not a thing, it is not a state. It is just words. What do these words point to? Could be different in different contexts. In the context of this investigation it means seeing clearly that no subject behind actions and feelings and thoughts can be found AND that whatever we do find (actions, sensations, thoughts etc) we will find no self behind them, no one in control of them or truly choosing them.

If by no-self we meant an ongoing state of no foolish behavior, no confusion, no dark emotion, no self thoughts and stories happening, no habitual unhelpful behaviors etc - if we meant that, then nobody I know (and I know many in this "field") whould have ever "achieved no self". What we might call seeing through unhelpful beliefs and letting go of unhelpful patterns continue to happen in natural organic processes "alone and together with others" (conventionally speaking) after this. It is questionable it ever ends as long as we are humans (conventionally speaking).

1) Does this make sense to you?

This really makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to make that clear for me. In English there's an expression "to put the cart before the horse" (reverse the proper order or procedure of something) - I don't want to get too caught up in analogies - but I now feel how everything was so backwards before!



"we will find no self behind them, no one in control of them or truly choosing them." - yes, i truly do feel that now. But in a way I feel it's too good to be true (another thought!) because it feels like real freedom or an exhalation (what i really wanted forever....because i feel almost as if i've been holding my breath my whole life)

Sounds to me like you imagine some "done forever", which is one an imagination and expectation for you, and that gets in the way. In any case, whatever expectation is there or not, whatever doubt is there or not, or comes, or goes, etc. -

I'm not sure if I have a "done forever" expectation - but I did/do definitely have some expectation of a discernible shift/blip/flip/awakening. Because that's all people seem to talk about!

2) LOOK - is there a self controlling or choosing any of that? Are any of these thoughts and feelings "a self"? Or they are just thoughts and feelings?

Please watch this video: https://youtu.be/z2g4qaDGpTU?si=wwDMLnZ-X2N-ZRXc

No I still can't see a self actively/passively controlling or choosing any expectations - they just appear without me participating to manifest them. They just appear out of nowhere, and I am still fooled by them! I'm like the most dupe-able audience member ever.

Are any of these thoughts and feelings "a self"? No, they're just thoughts and feelings.

Thank you for that video - it was really helpful! In general I'd say I don't have any lofty expectations. I don't want to get anything other than to see clearly - to live in truth. But as I said before I did have an expectation. Everyone says "it isn't what you expect" - which implies it is something, just not what we would expect - so I was expecting that! So like the video says, yes, I was expecting a grand realization or a big/small pop or at least "something"

3) In direct experience, not in imaginations and habitual beliefs, is there a separate self anywhere? How does it feel?

If i feel into direct experience, I just feel an expanse, a limitlessness - a nothing/everythingness, a kind of undefinable infinity - but it's very hard for me to locate a me, or person or self who's doing anything. There's just a kind of blankness, really. I can't find an orchestrator, or puppet master or me who's pulling the strings.

But I do keenly feel a sense of awareness - a constant pervasive knowingness. It's kinda just there, low-level in the background. But that's seems more like an all-encompassing, ever-present backdrop - than a "self" or who i formerly took as me controlling everything....i feel like there is no driver .....or just a horse, and no cart.....

[Elad]

No-self is not a thing, it is not a state. It is just words. What do these words point to? Could be different in different contexts. In the context of this investigation it means seeing clearly that no subject behind actions and feelings and thoughts can be found AND that whatever we do find (actions, sensations, thoughts etc) we will find no self behind them, no one in control of them or truly choosing them.

If by no-self we meant an ongoing state of no foolish behavior, no confusion, no dark emotion, no self thoughts and stories happening, no habitual unhelpful behaviors etc - if we meant that, then nobody I know (and I know many in this "field") whould have ever "achieved no self". What we might call seeing through unhelpful beliefs and letting go of unhelpful patterns continue to happen in natural organic processes "alone and together with others" (conventionally speaking) after this. It is questionable it ever ends as long as we are humans (conventionally speaking).

1) Does this make sense to you?

This really makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to make that clear for me. In English there's an expression "to put the cart before the horse" (reverse the proper order or procedure of something) - I don't want to get too caught up in analogies - but I now feel how everything was so backwards before!



"we will find no self behind them, no one in control of them or truly choosing them." - yes, i truly do feel that now. But in a way I feel it's too good to be true (another thought!) because it feels like real freedom or an exhalation (what i really wanted forever....because i feel almost as if i've been holding my breath my whole life)

Sounds to me like you imagine some "done forever", which is one an imagination and expectation for you, and that gets in the way. In any case, whatever expectation is there or not, whatever doubt is there or not, or comes, or goes, etc. -

I'm not sure if I have a "done forever" expectation - but I did/do definitely have some expectation of a discernible shift/blip/flip/awakening. Because that's all people seem to talk about!

2) LOOK - is there a self controlling or choosing any of that? Are any of these thoughts and feelings "a self"? Or they are just thoughts and feelings?

Please watch this video: https://youtu.be/z2g4qaDGpTU?si=wwDMLnZ-X2N-ZRXc

No I still can't see a self actively/passively controlling or choosing any expectations - they just appear without me participating to manifest them. They just appear out of nowhere, and I am still fooled by them! I'm like the most dupe-able audience member ever.

Are any of these thoughts and feelings "a self"? No, they're just thoughts and feelings.

Thank you for that video - it was really helpful! In general I'd say I don't have any lofty expectations. I don't want to get anything other than to see clearly - to live in truth. But as I said before I did have an expectation. Everyone says "it isn't what you expect" - which implies it is something, just not what we would expect - so I was expecting that! So like the video says, yes, I was expecting a grand realization or a big/small pop or at least "something"

3) In direct experience, not in imaginations and habitual beliefs, is there a separate self anywhere? How does it feel?

If i feel into direct experience, I just feel an expanse, a limitlessness - a nothing/everythingness, a kind of undefinable infinity - but it's very hard for me to locate a me, or person or self who's doing anything. There's just a kind of blankness, really. I can't find an orchestrator, or puppet master or me who's pulling the strings.

But I do keenly feel a sense of awareness - a constant pervasive knowingness. It's kinda just there, low-level in the background. But that's seems more like an all-encompassing, ever-present backdrop - than a "self" or who i formerly took as me controlling everything....i feel like there is no driver .....or just a horse, and no cart.....

"Everyone says "it isn't what you expect" - which implies it is something, just not what we would expect - so I was expecting that! So like the video says, yes, I was expecting a grand realization or a big/small pop or at least "something""

Please reread your message and see the paradox 😆😆😆

What you write you expected would happen has happened because it didn't happen. You write it so clear 😆 🤍

Read your message very carefully if you don't see it.

But more importantly continue to see as you do. Which is another paradox because where is the choice about that?

I think you are ready for the set of questions to be answered for me and 3 other guides. Anything you want just me and you to look at before?

[echoecho]

"Everyone says "it isn't what you expect" - which implies it is something, just not what we would expect - so I was expecting that! So like the video says, yes, I was expecting a grand realization or a big/small pop or at least "something""

Please reread your message and see the paradox 😆😆😆

What you write you expected would happen has happened because it didn't happen. You write it so clear 😆 🤍

Read your message very carefully if you don't see it.

But more importantly continue to see as you do. Which is another paradox because where is the choice about that?

I think you are ready for the set of questions to be answered for me and 3 other guides. Anything you want just me and you to look at before?

Thank you, that's reassuring! Going this path alone until now, I've always felt a bit all over the place (which still has been very fun!) but it is also nice to be nudged and questioned in ways I would never expect.

"If I am ready" haha I'm not ready, but that's ok. In poker-speak, I'm all in - so whatever the outcome, i'm just happy to be at the table, with all my chips in the middle. Thank you for everything so far Elad!

[Elad]

"Everyone says "it isn't what you expect" - which implies it is something, just not what we would expect - so I was expecting that! So like the video says, yes, I was expecting a grand realization or a big/small pop or at least "something""

Please reread your message and see the paradox 😆😆😆

What you write you expected would happen has happened because it didn't happen. You write it so clear 😆 🤍

Read your message very carefully if you don't see it.

But more importantly continue to see as you do. Which is another paradox because where is the choice about that?

I think you are ready for the set of questions to be answered for me and 3 other guides. Anything you want just me and you to look at before?

Thank you, that's reassuring! Going this path alone until now, I've always felt a bit all over the place (which still has been very fun!) but it is also nice to be nudged and questioned in ways I would never expect.

"If I am ready" haha I'm not ready, but that's ok. In poker-speak, I'm all in - so whatever the outcome, i'm just happy to be at the table, with all my chips in the middle. Thank you for everything so far Elad!

Lovely ❤️

Lets take a moment with this "not ready". Does it point to anything else then habitual thoughts that have no base in direct experience?

Is there anything findable in direct experience that could be "not ready"?

Can sensations by themselves be ready not ready?

Can thoughts think and act and be ready or not ready?

Or thoughts and sensations are just what they are?

[Elad]

Is there a real I that is not ready?

What does I refer to in direct experience?

Take time with each question 🙏

[echoecho]

Lovely ❤️

Lets take a moment with this "not ready". Does it point to anything else then habitual thoughts that have no base in direct experience?

Is there anything findable in direct experience that could be "not ready"?

Can sensations by themselves be ready not ready?

Can thoughts think and act and be ready or not ready?

Or thoughts and sensations are just what they are?

This is a very interesting question. I think yes it does point to habitual thoughts about feelings of incompleteness or just "not being there yet" - that is true. But at the same time "ready" implies to me to be "done" or all knowing and no longer curious. "Not ready" just feels more open-ended. So in a way being "not ready" has served me as my beginner's mind to stay curious and not discouraged and just to be open and non judgemental.

When I feel into it I get those 2 things - the first taps into imagined levels and steps and attainment basically. The second is more of an orientation.

Is there anything findable in direct experience that could be "not ready"? If I've learnt anything over the past few days it's to look into direct experience...and if I do, there is no such thing as "not ready" - hmm...if i look into my experience right here, i think i feel ready/not ready don't really apply because everything is already alright. They're a bit irrelevant...

Can sensations by themselves be ready not ready? Haha no they can't. Sensations just are.

Can thoughts think and act and be ready or not ready? Thoughts come and go, but i don't really ascribe anything to them at all - readiness or not readiness - they just are too. They're like independent, doing their own thing - and I just let them.

Or thoughts and sensations are just what they are? Yes! Arising or not - but not labelled or interacted with (other than briefly noticing).

[Elad]

Lovely ❤️

Lets take a moment with this "not ready". Does it point to anything else then habitual thoughts that have no base in direct experience?

Is there anything findable in direct experience that could be "not ready"?

Can sensations by themselves be ready not ready?

Can thoughts think and act and be ready or not ready?

Or thoughts and sensations are just what they are?

This is a very interesting question. I think yes it does point to habitual thoughts about feelings of incompleteness or just "not being there yet" - that is true. But at the same time "ready" implies to me to be "done" or all knowing and no longer curious. "Not ready" just feels more open-ended. So in a way being "not ready" has served me as my beginner's mind to stay curious and not discouraged and just to be open and non judgemental.

When I feel into it I get those 2 things - the first taps into imagined levels and steps and attainment basically. The second is more of an orientation.

Is there anything findable in direct experience that could be "not ready"? If I've learnt anything over the past few days it's to look into direct experience...and if I do, there is no such thing as "not ready" - hmm...if i look into my experience right here, i think i feel ready/not ready don't really apply because everything is already alright. They're a bit irrelevant...

Can sensations by themselves be ready not ready? Haha no they can't. Sensations just are.

Can thoughts think and act and be ready or not ready? Thoughts come and go, but i don't really ascribe anything to them at all - readiness or not readiness - they just are too. They're like independent, doing their own thing - and I just let them.

Or thoughts and sensations are just what they are? Yes! Arising or not - but not labelled or interacted with (other than briefly noticing).

Beautiful. Yes seeing is happening and fantasies that cloud seeing are being seen as fantasies... "Beginners mind" is a great pointer and as I believe you see that is not something we produce either. It's just simple direct experience without overlay beliefs held tight...

You didn't answer: What does I refer to in direct experience?


f

[echoecho]

Is there a real I that is not ready?

What does I refer to in direct experience?

Take time with each question 🙏

Is there a real I that is not ready? Connecting back to what I said above - I don't feel this question makes sense to me any more. Whatever I am, I am here and available - so I guess that means I am always "ready" and never not ready...!

What does I refer to in direct experience?

I still find this question so hard to answer, because - and this might sound disingenuous, but I'm really trying to be honest as I can - but I don't know who this I is. If someone put a gun to my head and I had to describe it, I just don't know. I've heard people say they are love, the world, everything, the trees, the birds... I know I can't compare their experience to mine, and I don't want to ... but I can't even get far enough to know what "I" is...let alone then jumping another step to say i am this or that. or i am ready or not ready. i guess who i am is a mystery if i had to come up with something....or everything and nothing....

[echoecho]

Beautiful. Yes seeing is happening and fantasies that cloud seeing are being seen as fantasies... "Beginners mind" is a great pointer and as I believe you see that is not something we produce either. It's just simple direct experience without overlay beliefs held tight...

You didn't answer: What does I refer to in direct experience?

Yes, "Beginners mind" to me is just not doing anything....being a blank slate.

"simple direct experience without overlay beliefs held tight" yes! i love this.

[Elad]

Is there a real I that is not ready?

What does I refer to in direct experience?

Take time with each question 🙏

Is there a real I that is not ready? Connecting back to what I said above - I don't feel this question makes sense to me any more. Whatever I am, I am here and available - so I guess that means I am always "ready" and never not ready...!

What does I refer to in direct experience?

I still find this question so hard to answer, because - and this might sound disingenuous, but I'm really trying to be honest as I can - but I don't know who this I is. If someone put a gun to my head and I had to describe it, I just don't know. I've heard people say they are love, the world, everything, the trees, the birds... I know I can't compare their experience to mine, and I don't want to ... but I can't even get far enough to know what "I" is...let alone then jumping another step to say i am this or that. or i am ready or not ready. i guess who i am is a mystery if i had to come up with something....or everything and nothing....

Your sincerity is awesome and staying true to direct experience. More important than anything anyone can say with words.

Now "I" - can you see this is a label, a word. Does this word refer to anything real that can be found at all? Is there a separate self? Only direct experience.

[Elad]

Beautiful. Yes seeing is happening and fantasies that cloud seeing are being seen as fantasies... "Beginners mind" is a great pointer and as I believe you see that is not something we produce either. It's just simple direct experience without overlay beliefs held tight...

You didn't answer: What does I refer to in direct experience?

Yes, "Beginners mind" to me is just not doing anything....being a blank slate.

"simple direct experience without overlay beliefs held tight" yes! i love this.

Is there even a blank slate seperable from direct experience? Is there seperate subject and object in direct experience or is that only language?