"I have neither bondage nor freedom. (...) Oh, the universe, though existing in me, does not in reality so exist." (Asht

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart

First, the fingers and hands feel the coldness. The sensation of coldness intensifies. (= a) Then, thinking blends in with the label 'coldness'. ( = b) I return to the sensation, and the label disappears again. There's just a sensation with a certain intensity in the fingers and hands. (= a)

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No, I can't feel any boundary, only a sensation of contact.

So are there two sensations – one of “fingers” and one of “coldness”(e.g. “can”)? Or just one labelled “fingers touching a cold can”? LOOK! (remember the cup of coffee exercises)
What are “fingers” and “hands” in DE? A sensation + a mental image (of a fingers/hand) + thoughts about a fingers/hands, right? Where are they located? Is there a location or the location is a label (e.g. left hand, right middle finger)? Also, are there left/right, above/below, in front/behind? What is the refence point for that?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The actual experience of the body is nothing more than sensory information.

Very good looking! The actual experience of the body is thought. Thought points to sensation, colour, smell :), taste :) and labels it a ‘body’, a body cannot be found as actual experience, only thoughts about a body.

No, the 'body' cannot 'act', it only 'happens', just like thoughts and sensations (which are believed to 'take place' in the 'body').

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts). Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love
Rali

[Lennart]

So are there two sensations – one of “fingers” and one of “coldness”(e.g. “can”)? Or just one labelled “fingers touching a cold can”?

No, in direct perception there is only one sensation. Then thinking comes in and labels it “fingers touching a cold can”.

What are “fingers” and “hands” in DE? A sensation + a mental image (of a fingers/hand) + thoughts about a fingers/hands, right? Where are they located? Is there a location or the location is a label (e.g. left hand, right middle finger)? Also, are there left/right, above/below, in front/behind? What is the refence point for that?

Yes, in direct perception there are no fingers or hands, only one sensation. Thinking locates the perception within the “map” of the body created by the mind. So, in reality, the fingers and hands are not located anywhere. Their 'location' cannot be 'seen', it is nothing but a mental concept (= label), just like 'left', 'right', 'above', 'below', 'in front' and 'behind' do only exist within the mind.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

There is no actual connection, it is only an imagined one.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

There isn't either.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

The felt sensation is simply feeling. The 'movement' seen in the mirror is simply seeing. There is no connection that could be directly perceived. It is only suggested by thoughts.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

No, the image doesn't suggest anything as in direct perception there is only seeing. Everything else is added by thoughts forming concepts about what is seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

No, the image is simply seen. There is no (apparent) 'knowledge' about anything as long as there is no conceptualising or, more exactly, as long as there is 'simply thinking'.

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

There are only sensations.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

There is no 'body walking', there are only sensations.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

No, there isn't.

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Yes, if there is 'walking' then it is only thoughts about walking.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

The body can only be found as a mental concept, not as something directly perceived.

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No, it can't. It is also only a label.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Just like the 'body', 'space' is something equally impossible to directly perceive, so it doesn't exist outside the mind either.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart

Thank you for your wonderful looking! I really enjoyed reading your reply!

Let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the exercises below and report your findings! Remember that we’re looking for some kind of entity, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’. Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’, but remember we are not interested in “seems like” and “feels like” entities, but ones that could be described.
Seems like/feels like = thought content

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over.

2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice)

Step1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
Step2. Count to 5.
Step3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience an entity doing the ‘choosing’?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does it look like?

3. Please take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you are able to share more details about your decision making...

How did it come to be? Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same? How many of these conditions were outside of your influence? What was in your control (according to thought)?

Please take your time with each exercise! Repeat as many times as you need and then write the answers for all of them. Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire with the questions

Love
Rali

[Lennart]

How is the movement controlled?

It is not controlled, it happens kind of automatically.

Does a thought control it?

It might seem like it, but the movement also happens when there is no thought like 'Now I'll turn the palm up again.' So the movement is actually not caused by the thought.

Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?

There is no control about doing the exercise. An infinite number of conditions has led 'me' to read the instructions and even if there is the thought “Now I'll follow the instructions”, this thought is neither chosen by anybody nor is it actually the cause for the movement. When the thought happens, the movement appears to happen synchronically but that doesn't mean that there's a connection between the two, just like there is no connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror in the previous exercise.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

There is no such 'decision'. There is only an interplay of conditions that lead to the movement happening.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

No, I didn't choose the qualities, they just appeared by themselves. The preferences also popped up themselves instead of being chosen.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience an entity doing the ‘choosing’?

No, I didn't choose this sequence of events. There wasn't even a thought about (the possibility of not) shutting down the preferences to (not) give way to the counting. I could not perceive any entity taking a 'choice'.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does it look like?

No, there didn't arise anything that announced 'I am the chooser'. I was not really surprised by the 'choice', though. It felt somehow as if it had already been clear before although there had not happened any 'decision' before starting to count. But that refers to the thoughts happening after the exercise, not while doing it.

How did it come to be? Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same? How many of these conditions were outside of your influence? What was in your control (according to thought)?

I don't really have an explanation for how it came to be. While counting I felt a sensation in my mouth when I looked at the bottle of kefir that might have made me pick it instead of the lemonade (and which clearly wasn't 'in my control'). When the thoughts about the properties of the drinks arose beforehand, one of them in relation to kefir was "healthy / beneficial for the body". However, that thought was not present during the counting. So I really don't know how the 'choice' really happened. I'm not sure if I understand correctly what is meant by “all of the conditions”. Do you mean in what situations both drinks where bought and what conditions were necessary for this situation to happen? Or do you refer only to the exercise?

Best regards from rainy Schwerin!
Love,
Lennart

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart
Great looking!

Do you mean in what situations both drinks where bought and what conditions were necessary for this situation to happen? Or do you refer only to the exercise?

I think you misunderstood. I meant you to share a recent decision that you’ve made in life (e.g. moving back to Germany or something else that you can share), not related to the exercises above. Here is the third exercise again:

3. Please take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you are able to share more details about your decision making...

How did it come to be? Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same? How many of these conditions were outside of your influence? What was in your control (according to thought)?

Love
Rali

[Lennart]

I think you misunderstood. I meant you to share a recent decision that you’ve made in life (e.g. moving back to Germany or something else that you can share), not related to the exercises above.

Oh, yes, I'm sorry. I really mixed things up there. Thank you for bringing that to my attention!

3. Please take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you are able to share more details about your decision making...
How did it come to be? Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same? How many of these conditions were outside of your influence? What was in your control (according to thought)?

I 'decided' to move to Schwerin, a city where I don't know anyone and wasn't sure if I would feel comfortable. I took this 'decision' because when I lived in Buenos Aires, I realized that living in a big, noisy city with lots of people was tiring for me. It hasn't always been like this. My needs just changed a lot since I started living a sober life three years ago. Eventually, I felt the desire to live again in my cultural and linguistic context, closer to my friends and family, but I didn't want to go back to Berlin (just another big city) where I had already spent 17 years before Argentina. The pandemic made me acutely aware of the separation from my loved ones. During the pandemic, I also embarked on the path to recovery from addiction, which also involved separating from my then (still consuming) partner. This probably strengthened my desire to feel understood and secure among good old friends. I also had a strong longing for forests, lakes, or the sea and beautiful architecture. When I returned to Germany, I researched which cities had all of these aspects. In the past I had not really been interested in getting to know different regions of my home country. I traveled through Northern Germany. Apart from the landscape, I didn't initially like Schwerin that much. However, I was eventually offered a good job there and found that it was easy to find an apartment. Also life is much more affordable than elsewhere in Germany. Now I've been living here for 3 months, and sometimes it feels strange to me why I ended up in Schwerin of all places. I know that most of the 'circumstances' that led to this are only 'real' in my mind, that all of this is nothing but a story I am telling to myself, nonetheless I didn't feel like I had any control over those 'circumstances' nor an influence on the whole 'story'.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart

There is no control about doing the exercise. An infinite number of conditions has led 'me' to read the instructions and even if there is the thought “Now I'll follow the instructions”, this thought is neither chosen by anybody nor is it actually the cause for the movement.

I know that most of the 'circumstances' that led to this are only 'real' in my mind, that all of this is nothing but a story I am telling to myself, nonetheless I didn't feel like I had any control over those 'circumstances' nor an influence on the whole 'story'.

I just wanted an example of a decision that you would normally consider that you’ve made. The point was to look entirely in thought content where cause and effect “live” and see that even there there’s no “you” making a decision. It was just one event leading to another, leading to another, with “actions” based on previous conditioning. The thought “decision is made” is layered on top of other thoughts/beliefs/descriptions of what has happened before. Why does the wind blow? It just blows. Yes we can say it happens as a result of previous events but there’s no entity “wind” that does the blowing. There is no wind that decides to blow. It’s just language. What is “moving of the hands” in DE? We’ve seen that it’s just a sensation, labelled “hands moving” + colour/shape labelled “hands moving”. So, what makes the sensations to appear? What makes seeing to appear? LOOK! Is there anything that causes anything to appear? Do cause and effect exist outside of thought content? Thought comes to describe that things are happening and why they are happening, but in DE things are just happening. Is the description/explanation/label needed for things to happen?
Love
Rali

[Lennart]

So, what makes the sensations to appear?

When we say that there are 'certain conditions' that make the sensations appear, that is nothing but a concept created by thoughts, too. So, in the end, there is really nothing that makes them appear.

What makes seeing to appear?

“Seeing” isn't made to appear by anything either.

Is there anything that causes anything to appear?

No, there isn't anything that causes anything to appear.

Do cause and effect exist outside of thought content?

No, they don't. They are just a mental concept about a supposed connection between various perceptions.

Is the description/explanation/label needed for things to happen?

No, things happen without needing any “label”. In fact, “happening” itself also is a label that doesn't exist outside of thought content so it could be said that, in the end, there is not even anything “happening”.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart
Very good!
One other aspect of cause and effect is time. We can explore it if you want

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Love
Rali

[Lennart]

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

No, there are only perceptions that supposedly 'happen'. What is experienced as 'now' is only a 'reference point' within the concept of 'time', which is also only a product of thought.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No, there is no 'moment' experienced. If what is experienced was called 'moment' it would always be the same moment, not one giving way to the next.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No, the 'succession' of things 'happening' is an artificial creation of thought that is superimposed on the perceptions, so to say.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

There is neither a 'present moment' nor a 'movement' or 'speed' of such a 'moment'.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began? How long does the ‘now’ last? Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

There is no beginning or end to such a supposed 'moment' that could be directly percieved. Consequently, there is no 'duration' either.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Within the conceptual thinking of the mind, the 'now' becomes the 'past' when it is 'remembered'. In that sense, 'past' or 'memory” consists of mental concepts, so it isn't anything to be 'seen' (= directly perceived).

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

'Past' does not exist in actual experience.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

No, actual experience consists only of direct perceptions. Temporal conceptualisation is something added by thought.

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart

I feel like you are rushing a bit. What is the hurry? Enjoy the exercises. Experience fully! This is not a test that you have to pass, there are no medals at the end.
Otherwise, very good observations as always!

At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness. See how ALL is moving interdependently, including thinking and the senses. Hold these questions in mind:
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought? Is that interdependent movement outside of you? Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?
Is there an owner of being?
Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?

Love
Rali

[Lennart]

At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness.

That sounds like a wonderful exercise! I won't be able to do it before Saturday, though, since during the next days I'll have to work full-time. But maybe that's OK as you recommended me not to keep rushing so much (?). Hope you're having a pleasant week.

Love,
Lennart

[poppyseed]

Hey Lennart

Thanks for letting me know! In the mean time continue to LOOK (cup of coffee example style) - seeing things as they are not like thought describes it.
Also if you have anything that you want to explore together maybe we can use the time
Have a woderful rest of the week!
Love
Rali

[Lennart]

In the mean time continue to LOOK (cup of coffee example style) - seeing things as they are not like thought describes it.

I am doing it whenever I have time, even if it's just some minutes in between. I really enjoying it!

Also if you have anything that you want to explore together maybe we can use the time
Have a wonderful rest of the week!

Thanks so much for your time and effort guiding me! Same for you, too!
Talk to you again very soon!

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart

Thanks so much for your time and effort guiding me!

It's my pleasure talking to you!
Looking forward to your report from the walk! Enjoy!

Love
Rali