Thoughts, but no one thinking these thoughts

[WhoIsAsking]

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

No. The qualities just arose. No preference arose at this point

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

No, I didn't choose to stop thinking about preferences. Those thoughts just stopped. And counting arose. And after I get to five counting stopped

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

No. Definitely not. There was no knowledge of which drink would be chosen until my hand reached for that one

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Not at all. Just a "wondering which drink will be chosen" thought was replaced with a hand reaching for the water

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

A feeling is just a feeling. I feeling can't 'choose.' But that wasn't a problem. The hand still reached for a drink. :)

[Bluejay]

For the next day or so, take this to your daily life.

You can set a random timer, if possible, to remind you every hour or so.

Then pay attention to what you're doing and if there is someone or something doing the choosing.

What in you is it that chooses? And do you control it?

Use questions like the above or whatever comes to mind.

Let me know if you have any questions. :)

[WhoIsAsking]

This has been beautiful. Every time I looked, something was happening. But never was there a decider. Never was there a choice. Just doing. And thoughts. Beautiful.


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[Bluejay]

Wonderful!

Let's put the cherry on top with this pointer 🍰

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

- How is the movement controlled?

- Does a thought control it?

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

- Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

- Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Enjoy! :)

[WhoIsAsking]

- How is the movement controlled?

It just happens. :)

- Does a thought control it?

Not only did no thought control it, but during most of the times I did this, there wasn't even a thought 'pretending' to control it. The hand just turned

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Nope. Not even the illusion of a controller. That may not yet be my experience throughout the day, but it fully was during this exercise.

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

I never saw a decision. I just saw "starting the exercise," "hand extending," "hand turning over," etc.

- Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

It's funny, I didn't even notice that a particular hand was being used until the exercise was underway and I read this question. Lo and behold, it was the right hand. It had never been chosen or decided upon... it was just what was happening

- Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

None at all. Just a turning hand :)

[Bluejay]

Excellent :)

Now let's look closer at the sense of self.

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there.

You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this sense of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by feeling it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes? (shimmering, tingling, pulsing, etc)

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

[WhoIsAsking]

Continuing to sit with this. Any attempt to witness this “sense of myself” turns up nothing. Or maybe a thought or feeling, but nothing more. Certainly nothing that has a shape or location, etc. Looking forward to continuing this exercise. I’ll be back with a fuller response sometime this weekend.

All the best,
Jay


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[Bluejay]

Sounds good!

[WhoIsAsking]

What a great exercise. Really brought clarity to what's 'not' there...

Does the sense of self have a location?

None at all. If it seemed to have a location within my head, that was quickly seen to be just a mental image, just a thought. The sense itself had no location.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Again, at first glance it seemed to have a shape. Either the shape of my head, or more often, the shape of my body. But when I tried to actually experience that, once again I only found a though. A shapeless, sizeless, thought.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

No. It can be witnessed (as was perhaps the point of this exercise?). But any seeming communication is just a thought. Maybe a thought about communicating something... but still a thought. Certainly no entity communicating or saying anything. Just thought.

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

The answer is no. :) But unexamined, it could seem to be yes. Basically a thought about an entity communicating or saying something. But no entity there. No one actually saying or communicating anything

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes? (shimmering, tingling, pulsing, etc)

When unexamined, the dominant characteristic is separateness. But upon examination, there is nothing there. Just emptiness. All arises in emptiness (spaciousness?)

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

All I find is thought. Originally an illusion of an image. But once that illusion fades away, only thought. A thought arising in emptiness

What is found?

Nothing? Insubstantial thought? Maybe more like a rainbow... is a rainbow there? Sure. But there is no substance. And certainly no entity. No person. No 'self''

[Bluejay]

All arises in emptiness (spaciousness?)

What is emptiness/spaciousness in direct experience without any labels?

Nothing? Insubstantial thought? Maybe more like a rainbow... is a rainbow there? Sure. But there is no substance. And certainly no entity. No person. No 'self''

That sounds great. So it seems like there is a small sense of self that is seen through quite quickly?

Here's one way to explore any remaining sense of self:

So... We have direct experience, which is seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling + thought.

When there is a sense of self, separate it into the senses that are involved, and inquire into each sense.

For example, let's say I feel a sense of self behind the eyes, and there's a thought 'this is me'. I would inquire:

Sense of self behind the eyes = sensation = are these sensations the self?
Thought 'this is me' = thought = is this thought the self?
Image of self behind the eyes = thought = is this image the self?

Objections will likely rise up. If so, keep inquiring into those, such as 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here'.

Thought 'Of course there is a self, I'm right here' = thought = is that thought the self?

Then maybe there's a feeling/contraction in the chest, so you inquire into that. Are those sensations the self? Where is it?

If you end up in a quiet place, rest there. Remember, no answer is the answer. There is no answer possible from thought. This needs to be felt into and repeated over and over.

[WhoIsAsking]

What is emptiness/spaciousness in direct experience without any labels?

With direct experience, I find nothing. Wow.

That sounds great. So it seems like there is a small sense of self that is seen through quite quickly?

Exactly. The sense of self continues to arise, but with some looking is quickly seen to be just a thought.

Thought 'this is me' = thought = is this thought the self?

This is the one that consistently popped up. And it takes no convincing to see that the thought 'this is me' isn't me. Isn't a self. It's just a thought

If you end up in a quiet place, rest there. Remember, no answer is the answer. There is no answer possible from thought. This needs to be felt into and repeated over and over.

I'm not sure what is meant here. I see that thoughts arise. But there is no self thinking these thoughts. And I see that a 'sense of self' is itself just another thought. There is no one here. Is that what is meant by 'no answer is the answer?'

Thank you!

[Bluejay]

I'm not sure what is meant here. I see that thoughts arise. But there is no self thinking these thoughts. And I see that a 'sense of self' is itself just another thought. There is no one here. Is that what is meant by 'no answer is the answer?'

Yes.

Another would be when thoughts go silent.

So whenever a sense of self pops up, even if it is weak, get curious about it and look what is there, as you're already doing. When this clicks, there's often a shift on an experiential/bodily level.

Maybe there has already been a shift? Has there?

Let's now explore the body:

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to? What is the direct experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, eating, etc) before replying.

[WhoIsAsking]

What is the direct experience of the body?

I sat with this several times yesterday, and again this morning. And I had a hard time actually 'seeing' what my direct experience actually was. While in the shower, it all became clear. I found absolutely nothing that wasn't a sensation, a mental image, or a thought. What I had already discovered about thoughts is just as true about the body. In direct experience, the body itself is just a thought. Or many thoughts. All just arising, and passing away.

[Bluejay]

Yes :)

So what about these questions:

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

If there is no inside/outside, then where do you (separate self) begin? If there is no inside/outside, how can something be separate and make decisions?

[WhoIsAsking]

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Not in direct experience. Just sensation. Just thought, or other mental activity. But no direct boundary to be found.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

The more I sit with this (and the more I find no inside or outside), the more there is just "this." Call it oneness, or unity, or non-dual. But it's just "this." Bodily sensations, the images that appear when eyes are closed, background noises, thoughts... all just here. Undivided "this."

If there is no inside/outside, then where do you (separate self) begin? If there is no inside/outside, how can something be separate and make decisions?

There is clearly no separate self. Just thoughts popping up here and there, no more or less important than anything else (sensations, colors, sounds) popping up. Nothing separate. Nothing making decisions.